Opioids Belbuca 150mcg (buprenorphine buccal film) Effective for Dilaudid Withdrawal?

[PassivePanda]

Hello - just to start, if this thread is in the wrong section I do apologize. It's my first post after many years of lurking.

I have been an avid user of opiates and recently joined a pain management clinic that started me off (assuming that I'm opiate naive) on new buprenorphine buccal films. They're 150mcg, intended for twelve hours of pain relief.

I have been using dilaudid heavily for the past month or so, and have been plugging around 40mg a day. It has completely lost effectiveness and frankly I'm tired of using/being in the cycle of addiction.

I have used suboxone in the past and have access to it still, but it caused severe pulsating migraines that were worse than typical withdrawal symptoms. All of this information brings me to my main question/s.

1. If I drop the dilaudid cold turkey, will the belbuca be enough to combat the relatively severe withdrawals I should expect? 150mcg seems like quite a low dose. I have many of them available at my disposal to work with, though.
2. Would one assume that taking one of these 150mcg films when I'm in relatively bad withdrawal (perhaps 15 hours after last dose) that it would not cause precipitated withdrawal? Seeing as the dose is quite low.

This drug appears to be quite new as no search on Google or any other forums offered any useful advice.

I'll likely stock up on a few 8mg Suboxone in case the withdrawal is just too severe, but if I can simply take multiple films and avoid the nalaxone induced migraine that would be preferred.

Thanks for your help and input Bluelighters.

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Yea I always recommend when inducting to start at low doses and gradually build up (so that the first small dose knocks off any remaining DOC opioid and the rest fill up the now emptyreceptors).

These 150ug films sound perfect for that, especially if you have a large supply.

Also, consider trying subutex if possible (pure buprenorphine [plus binders of course] but no naloxone). That should fix the migraine issue.

 

[PassivePanda]

Thank you for your input, much appreciated.
Would you assume that after initially taking the small dose and some time has passed, multiple films would be effective at maintaining the potential withdrawal symptoms?

 

[BigG]

I think the doses you have are a little to small for what you are wanting to achieve.

Induction doses for buprenorphine ORT therapy usually begin at 2-4mg which is around 13-26 of your 150mcg films at once...... And that's just the induction.

Suppose you need 8mg (which is a very conservative estimate based on the amount of hydromphone you describe using) then that would be nearly 50 of these strips at once. I don't know how many you have but unless you have literally thousands of them i don't think it's doable.

You really need subutex/suboxone which contain bupronorphine in mg quantities.....

Edit.....I also think 15 hours is pushing it for avoiding PWs. I would try to wait at least 24 hours to be on the safe side.....

Good luck mate....

 

[PassivePanda]

Wow, putting that dosing into perspective definitely changed my mind about even bothering with the Belbuca.

I'm curious as to why they even offer such low doses. Especially because it's not like it's "150mcg/hr" similar to fentanyl patches. It's just straight up 150mcg.
I'll have to bring up your math with my doctor, England. Thank you for your helpful post.

 

[MrRoot]

Because they are meant for opiate naive persons such as yourself

 

[tightlywound]

belbuca is supposed to be WAY more bioavailable so the company claims, such as that mcg doses are as effective as suboxone's 2-12mg strips.
150mcg is small for coming off that much dilaudid though, they come up to 900mcg films that are intended for detox tapers.

 

[BigG]

belbuca is supposed to be WAY more bioavailable so the company claims, such as that mcg doses are as effective as suboxone's 2-12mg strips.
150mcg is small for coming off that much dilaudid though, they come up to 900mcg films that are intended for detox tapers.

Mate that's just physically impossible. Its THE SAME drug by THE SAME route of administration. If you're saying that 150mcg gives the same plasma buprenorphine levels as a 2mg subutex/suboxone then that would make it over 1300% more bioavailable!!

What ever the company may claim that's just physically impossible.

 

[BigG]

Wow, putting that dosing into perspective definitely changed my mind about even bothering with the Belbuca.

I'm curious as to why they even offer such low doses. Especially because it's not like it's "150mcg/hr" similar to fentanyl patches. It's just straight up 150mcg.
I'll have to bring up your math with my doctor, England. Thank you for your helpful post.

Its similar to the 400mcg temgesic buprenorphine sublingual tablets. They are for pain in opiate nieve individuals as [MENTION=189013]MrRoot[/MENTION] says.

The doses for pain in an opiate nieve individual and the doses for opioid replacement therapy for someone dependant on a high dose of full against opioid are hugely different.

 

[tightlywound]

Mate that's just physically impossible. Its THE SAME drug by THE SAME route of administration. If you're saying that 150mcg gives the same plasma buprenorphine levels as a 2mg subutex/suboxone then that would make it over 1300% more bioavailable!!

What ever the company may claim that's just physically impossible.

I'm just telling you what the company says. I don't necessarily agree but I can't say as I haven't tried it, though I did take a placebo tester at the doctor's office and thought it tasted nice hah. they claim the cheek has way more absorption potential than under the tongue especially w/ the glue sticking it on there so it doesn't quickly get mixed up w/ saliva. just what the company says, I can't vouch for it either way.

 

[BigG]

The thing is buccal BA is about half that of sublingual buprenorphine so it just doesn't make sense.

Not like big pharma would lie though is it.

 

[PassivePanda]

If anyone is keeping up, I figured I would post to the community.

I waited about 22 hrs and took one of the buccal films. The main use I've found is that it allowed me to "test the waters" in terms of avoiding precipitated withdrawal.

 

[PassivePanda]

Alright guys, I'm 12 (and a half) days sober tonight. I have decided to detail my withdrawal journey to offer more information for fellow addicts.

I used the buccal films, as well as suboxone to help get off the relatively high dose of dilaudid I was using.

My last dose of dilaudid was at 9am in the morning. I did not taper, at all.

By night, I was unable to sleep. Sweats began, etc. Around midnight (15 hours in) I was tempted to take suboxone. Instead, I took 1mg of xanax and fell asleep. I woke up around 7am (22 hours) and decided it was definitely time to try the buccal films. (severe leg cramps, constant yawning, anxiety, etc)

I took a single film, noticed very little relief (but enough, that I wasn't in PWD) and decided to take the suboxone instead. I measured and cut the strips into 8 1mg squares.

24 hours in, I took 2mg suboxone and about 90 minutes later the withdrawal was bearable, but not entirely remedied.

The first 3 days I used 8mg suboxone a day, spread throughout the day in 1-2mg doses. The second day was the worst, by far. I used many extra films that day, although they likely had little to no impact. I also had some ketamine for the agony, only during the severe portions.

The fourth day I dosed 6mg, fifth 4mg, sixth 2mg, seventh 1mg and off. It was surprisingly easy to keep my dosages down with suboxone. Tapering with oxycodone or dilaudid.. I wouldn't have been able to.

I noticed on the days after cessation of suboxone I was unable to sleep, diarrhea, sweats, etc. Fortunately I did not continue to be in pain.

It's now day 12 and a half and I'm still having bouts of anxiety, diarrhea and obviously extreme urges to use opiates.

I'm very positive about the future and intend to continue focusing on my sobriety. One day at a time.

Thank you to everyone that posted in this thread and took time out of their day to help/offer advice.

 

[mazda01]

Alright guys, I'm 12 (and a half) days sober tonight. I have decided to detail my withdrawal journey to offer more information for fellow addicts.

I used the buccal films, as well as suboxone to help get off the relatively high dose of dilaudid I was using.

My last dose of dilaudid was at 9am in the morning. I did not taper, at all.

By night, I was unable to sleep. Sweats began, etc. Around midnight (15 hours in) I was tempted to take suboxone. Instead, I took 1mg of xanax and fell asleep. I woke up around 7am (22 hours) and decided it was definitely time to try the buccal films. (severe leg cramps, constant yawning, anxiety, etc)

I took a single film, noticed very little relief (but enough, that I wasn't in PWD) and decided to take the suboxone instead. I measured and cut the strips into 8 1mg squares.

24 hours in, I took 2mg suboxone and about 90 minutes later the withdrawal was bearable, but not entirely remedied.

The first 3 days I used 8mg suboxone a day, spread throughout the day in 1-2mg doses. The second day was the worst, by far. I used many extra films that day, although they likely had little to no impact. I also had some ketamine for the agony, only during the severe portions.

The fourth day I dosed 6mg, fifth 4mg, sixth 2mg, seventh 1mg and off. It was surprisingly easy to keep my dosages down with suboxone. Tapering with oxycodone or dilaudid.. I wouldn't have been able to.

I noticed on the days after cessation of suboxone I was unable to sleep, diarrhea, sweats, etc. Fortunately I did not continue to be in pain.

It's now day 12 and a half and I'm still having bouts of anxiety, diarrhea and obviously extreme urges to use opiates.

I'm very positive about the future and intend to continue focusing on my sobriety. One day at a time.

Thank you to everyone that posted in this thread and took time out of their day to help/offer advice.

that's great news, congrats man. suboxone definitely aids in the slow tapering off full agonist opiates. keep it up and it will only get better.

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Sup, Panda? How we doing, bud?

I'm glad you were able to source proper 8mg subs and am proud of your ballsy rapid taper (THE correct way to use bupe).

Update us?

 

[PassivePanda]

Thanks for your kind words, everyone. I wouldn't be able to have gotten through it without the help of everyone here on BL. Very grateful for this resource.

It was easy to not take suboxone while tapering. I never caught an enjoyable buzz/sensation. I still prefer methadone for very short term detoxes though.

In hindsight, I should have probably cut my sub dose down a little slower. The cravings were intense and I wouldn't have had them if I added in maybe two - three more days.

I'm doing well Phil. I relapsed pretty quickly using heroin. I'm in the Midwest and black has been rampant, easy for me to avoid - then some east coast stuff came around and I couldn't control myself.

I've successfully "chipped" using once a week or so, but I know I need to cut it out. I was actually going to post about how surprisingly ineffective this H has been. Then again, I am snorting it and I was used to good ol' hydromorphone.

Thanks for keeping up with me folks. I'll gladly keep everyone interested up to date.

 

[adder]

I'm not sure if I'm following. This Belbuca 0.15mg strip is for maintenance purposes? It's supposed to be equivalent to what dose of Subutex/Suboxone? 2mg of buprenorphine sublingually should give 0.66-1mg absorbed if taken properly, there is no way you could achieve 100% bioavailability sticking a film onto your cheek, so in theory those 0.15mg strips can't be meant as a maintenance drug. I can't imagine how low your tolerance would have to be for a 0.15mg strip with 100% BA to help you with withdrawals. 200mg of codeine a day?

The drug is clearly to treat pain.

 

[PassivePanda]

I've decided this thread will now be devoted to my suboxone induction trials and tribulations.

This time I abused heroin from the day I posted last until yesterday. Small amounts, .5g east coast powder and 1g black tar per 4 days or so - whatever that comes out to.

All I can say is that the withdrawal from the heroin has been eons easier than dilaudid (not to discount heroin w/d, I just haven't gotten too far in "the depths.")

ROA was always snorting ECP and always smoking black tar - never did pick up the needle. Dilaudid was very painful, this was mainly lethargy and depression.

Anyways - I went 22 hours and took a belbuca film. I had enjoyable bouts of euphoria as I get relief. Pretty much indicated I can take suboxone, which I did.

I took the 150 mcg patch, 30 minutes went by, took 1mg and so on until I took 4mg and I finally feel "okay" enough to eat, and write this out.

It made me sad reading my thread. I went through hell with those dilaudid withdrawals.

I definitely need professional help to remain off opiates.

I'll post back friends.

 

[FLA]

Sup Panda, staying out of jail, nuthouses? Still among the living?

 

[vpasqual123]

Hello, I have been on Suboxone 2 MG Sub Film four (4) times a day or 8 MG per day. As per my doctor I have used it for pain for 3 years. For various reasons I want to switch to Bellbuca and I have yet to ask my prescribing doctor. The issue is The conversion as I saw it : To get to 8 MG Suboxone you would need 8000 mcg Bellbuca. Why would this even be worth the trouble for me (Switching)? Stopping or lowering Suboxone can cause withdrawal especially since I have been on Suboxone so long. The numbers do not add up and on paper it looks like it would not be an option unless I want to taper my Suboxone but am I missing something that could validate a better conversion such as absorption (Even though I already take Suboxone Sublingual, OR maybe something else the drug company can say or some proof. Any Answers?