Beijing demands drug users register with police

[E-llusion]

Beijing demands drug users register with police

BEIJING, May 12/05

As part of an action called the "Comprehensive Survey and Registration of Drug Users," the bureau wants all users to register on their own by June 10, according to the Beijing News.

The Municipal Drug Control Commission announced the registration drive at a teleconference Wednesday.

Those who register will be assigned a target date to quit drugs and receive help from the police and their local neighborhood committees, the paper says.

It adds that those who do not register on time will be "forced" to quit over three to six months and anyone who relapses will receive a labor-reeducation camp sentence.

About 26,000 people are using drugs in Beijing, a city of about 13 million, the Beijing News reported.

Of those, 4,000 are over age 35, but the vast majority are said to be teenagers. The drug-using population of Beijing and elsewhere in northern China is smaller than southern areas such as Yunnan Province and the Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, where opiates come straight from the Golden Triangle.

"The aim is to ascertain the whole city's drug-use situation," the newspaper said. "The goal is to use the strengthening of management, help and education for drug users."

A Western diplomat who specializes in healthcare said the registration drive is probably geared toward out-of-town heroin and opium users.

If the police are sincere, he said, they may put heroin users on methadone, which costs 5 to 10 yuan ($1.20) a day instead of 200 yuan a day for heroin.

Marijuana and ecstasy are also common in Beijing.

Wealthy artists, musicians and actors use marijuana to inspire their work and people from the far western Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are said to use and sell hashish in Beijing.

But because there is no known precedent for mandatory drug-user registration, the diplomat said, it is hard to predict an outcome.

"This is an unknown question," he said. "I can only take a wait-and-see position."

Beijing AIDS activist Hu Jia, who knows intravenous drug users, said police only use "force" to make people quit drugs and those users usually restart their habits. Special police facilities for drug users are effective mainly because they cut off supply, Hu said.

He does not expect to see a needle exchange for heroin users or any other voluntary program.

"All the service the government has given to drug users and all the appeals, none of it has come to any result," he added.

***

Drug abuse is one of the leading causes of AIDS in China. Guangdong Province plans to offer drug addicts cheap and moderate methadone taken only under health workers' supervision.
The Beijing Public Security Bureau has issued a notice requiring all users of illegal drugs to register with police over the next month or be forced to quit their habits with the threat of time in labor-reeducation camp, Beijing media reported Thursday.

Link

 

[zekethemusicman]

lol

 

[fruitfly]

Yeah, I'm gonna walk up to the cops and tell them I'm addicted to drugs! 8)

 

[qwe]

"The aim is to ascertain the whole city's drug-use situation," the newspaper said. "The goal is to use the strengthening of management, help and education for drug users." 8(

"labor-reeducation camp sentence"

 

[Jwlst]

Sounds like they need another railroad built.

 

[Tryptamine*Dreamer]

About 26,000 people are using drugs in Beijing, a city of about 13 million, the Beijing News reported.

The actual number would probably be closer to a million. And if any of them are stupid enough to register as drug users then they deserve what they get.

Maybe next the chinese will start executing drug users like they do in the philippines.

 

[frizzantik]

it says if you don't register on time you can get in even worse trouble.. what if you werent an addict at that time?


who knows, it could work.. theres some dumb people out there hehe

 

[Aphex Ecstasy]

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

 

[Invalid Usename]

When are "they" ever going to learn, the invisible hand of the market is the only way to control drug use.

The fundamental question to ask is, "Why do people take drugs."

The stiff shirts will say that it is "to escape reality." But what in the hell do these stiff shirts know???

The real answer is to have some kind of experience. And if this were not a normal part of the human condition, there wouldn't be so many humans seeking to do it.

If drug "A" is causing social problems, then the real answer is to develop and introduce drug "B" which competes with it, lacks the qualities producing the social problems, and exceeds the level of experience provided by drug "A".

Why this is sooo difficult for the stiff shirts to understand is beyond me. Maybe they've escaped from reality. It is certain that they've escaped the reality of this solution.8(

 

[thursday]

yes, capitalism will solve the problem of drug addiction.8(

you're thinking just like the "stiff shirts" when you suggest that drug A causes social problems so we need to get people to stop using drug A and use drug B instead.

weed, ecstasy, heroin, coke, meth, lsd, mushrooms, etc. don't have any intrinsic properties that cause whatever social problems society likes to blame on drug use. drug abuse is definitely harmful, but not everyone who uses drug X is going to abuse it or get addicted to it. and for any recreational drug, there are always going to be users and abusers. the problem is trying to prevent abuse, not to prohibit drug use completely. you can't prevent drug abuse by getting people to only do socially acceptable drugs. drug abuse is often caused by the social problems which are blamed on drugs.

why is crack cocaine addiction so prevalent in poor neighborhoods? is it because crack causes poverty? what about all the people living in these neighborhoods who don't smoke crack? did poverty not exist before crack came along? is it not possible that because our society marginalizes and disenfranchises certain social groups who are born with very limited opportunities for upper-mobility that drug abuse is so prevalent in these areas? if people are getting addicted to crack because they have a very grim outlook on life because of the situation they find themselves in then how is substituting drug A for drug B going to help? the drug abuser will just abuse drug B instead.

if you completely do away with crack cocaine, but alcohol is still readily available, all the crackheads will become alcoholics. it's just the lifestyle they lead. economics is not going to help an addict beat his addiction. if he is abusing drugs for some reason, he's not going to be able to kick his addiction until he resolves deeper issue which is the underlying cause of the drug abuse.

drugs themselves don't cause social problems. people can take heroin, meth, weed, alcohol, ecstasy, any kind of drug, and if they are responsible with it, it won't cause them any problems, and it won't cause society any problems. your "invisible hand of the market" solution doesn't make any sense. you can't invent a drug that has no consequences when abused. you just have to find out why drug abusers find the need to abuse drugs and work towards societal changes to prevent people from feeling the need to abuse drugs. and if you look around you or talk to people who have had a history of drug abuse it's pretty clear what these problems are.

 

[stoy420]

Maybe next the chinese will start executing drug users like they do in the philippines.

Actually, the Chinese, in like the 1950s or round there when the Communists first got into power, they executed tons of opium addicts

 

[Invalid Usename]

Given the huge volumes that I write here on this very topic, I am constantly amazed by people who will hang everything on one post.

Originally posted by thursday
you're thinking just like the "stiff shirts" when you suggest that drug A causes social problems so we need to get people to stop using drug A and use drug B instead.

I will admit that I did not qualify everything that I was suggesting.

But given your reply, you appear to know exactly what I meant by "social problems caused by drug A." So, what was I talking about in specific? Huh?

Originally posted by thursday
your "invisible hand of the market" solution doesn't make any sense. you can't invent a drug that has no consequences when abused.

What exactly do you mean by abused?

Are you referring to the strict medical definition of abuse, where a pharmacological substance is used without there being an indicated medical need for it?

If so, I have a problem with that definition because it precludes the notion of recreational use, and suggests that there is something inherently wrong with recreational drug use.


But in terms of your claim that:

Originally posted by thursday
you can't invent a drug that has no consequences when abused.

You don't have any supporting evidence for this because there has not been one case anywhere in our modern pharmaceuticals industry where the development of a recreational drug has ever been attempted. Especially with the body of work that has been done so far in neuropsychopharmacology.



Perhaps if you'd get down from that high horse of your's, and stop pretending that you are dealing with comic book characters, we'd be able to have an intelligent discussion on the subject. 8)


BTW, if you'd like a glimpse of what I am referring to by "social problems" then perhaps you'd care to read a first draft of a paper I just wrote on Methamphetamine induced Hallucinations and Psychosis. It's part of a larger project that I am working on involving harm reduction.

.

 

[thursday]

Given the huge volumes that I write here on this very topic, I am constantly amazed by people who will hang everything on one post.

sorry, i didn't have time to read all of your posts when i was just responding to the one in this thread.

But given your reply, you appear to know exactly what I meant by "social problems caused by drug A." So, what was I talking about in specific? Huh?

you didn't specify, so i can only presume that you are referring to any social problem caused by a drug, or drug use most-likely, just as drug A could refer to any recreational substance. what is your point? if my interpretation is wrong, then correct me instead of getting so defensive about it.

What exactly do you mean by abused?

Are you referring to the strict medical definition of abuse, where a pharmacological substance is used without there being an indicated medical need for it?

If so, I have a problem with that definition because it precludes the notion of recreational use, and suggests that there is something inherently wrong with recreational drug use.

i said abuse because i specifically wanted to make a distinction between using recreational drugs, and abusing them. by abuse, i mean reckless consumption of the substance and irresponsible conduct while on these substances.

You don't have any supporting evidence for this because there has not been one case anywhere in our modern pharmaceuticals industry where the development of a recreational drug has ever been attempted. Especially with the body of work that has been done so far in neuropsychopharmacology.

abuse suggests reckless/irresponsible consumption of a substance. no matter how harmless a substance is physically/psychologically, you will still fuck yourself over by not exercising moderation and responsibility. this is true by the definition of abuse. and social problems aren't caused by the intrinsic pharmacological properties of drugs anyways. that is why some people can use opiates recreationally and carry very healthy and productive lives, whereas others totally fuck themselves over by abusing them. similarly with marijuana, ecstasy, acid, meth, coke, etc. but maybe you're right, i don't know what specific social issues you're referring to so maybe there are some social issues that certain chemicals cause by their intrinsic pharmacological characteristics.

Perhaps if you'd get down from that high horse of your's, and stop pretending that you are dealing with comic book characters, we'd be able to have an intelligent discussion on the subject. 8)

what the hell are you talking about? you had severe gaps in your logic and your argument was based on invalid premises so i pointed these things out. it seems like you can't defend your argument so you're just getting defensive about it and raising seemingly irrelevant points. if you want to have an intelligent discussion about it then you have to actually respond to my counter-arguments and elaborate on your argument which you haven't really done so far.

BTW, if you'd like a glimpse of what I am referring to by "social problems" then perhaps you'd care to read a first draft of a paper I just wrote on Methamphetamine induced Hallucinations and Psychosis. It's part of a larger project that I am working on involving harm reduction.

.

those are health problems not social problems. and no offense, but that paper seems to betray your lack of formal education on pharmacology and biology. how old are you btw? imho you seem to be attempting to provide insight on topics that are far outside the scope of your knowledge.

 

[Invalid Usename]

and no offense, but that paper seems to betray your lack of formal education on pharmacology and biology. but that paper seems to betray your lack of formal education on pharmacology and biology.

You're fishing...


I'm 52 years old. My undergrad work was in pre-med, and my graduate work was in computer science. The year I graduated, the term AIDS had just been coined, and I kept wondering if I should have followed my other inclination and pursued virology. Directly out of college, I developed (EPA certified) lab management systems (LIMS, CLAS), and real time data acquisition and analysis of data polled directly from analytical instruments (GC, HPLC, GC/MS, ICAP, atomic furnace, etc.). Then I moved into the pharmaceuticals industry doing close to the same thing I was doing in environmental chemistry. From there I worked for a few medical research companies in the private sector: medical imaging, patient care instruments, acute cardiac care monitoring (think of me the next time you see a Baxter infusion pump, that may be my software regulating the drip). And after doing that for a while, I moved on to contract work in in the public sector (public health in epidemiological monitoring and modeling). And from there I worked on several projects related to antidepressants research, where we were developing computer models of neurological processes in conjunction with several neuroscience teams. These were a series of joint projects undertaken by two agencies.

My previous BL identity was as Brian Oblivion.


Your style of argument and accusation says a great deal about you. If you worked in science or medicine, you would have critiqued the paper. Instead, you hide behind a facade of "the knowing one" wielding empty value judgements. 8)

Sorry, but I don't like playing games. And I dislike people who play them even more.

 

[thursday]

so you have an ungraduate degree in medicine and a graduate degree in CS? at my school pre-med isn't a major so i don't really understand how that works, but i still find your credentials hard to believe as your paper conveys the attitude of an armchair researcher who is summarizing various studies they've found on the internet and trying to draw unqualified conclusions from their cursory understanding of the studies.

you still haven't defended your argument on how the market can resolve the social problems caused by drugs, or elaborate on what social problems you speak of.

 

[Invalid Usename]

Originally posted by thursday
i still find your credentials hard to believe as your paper conveys the attitude of an armchair researcher who is summarizing various studies they've found on the internet and trying to draw unqualified conclusions from their cursory understanding of the studies.

Get a grip. 8)

It is a simple paper, which started out as a reply in a thread, and grew far too big, which led me to post in its own thread. It took a little over an hour to write, and its target audience is NOT the submission review board at Nature.

I hope that is now clear.


Regarding the the paper's contents: you and I both know that you are not qualified to judge them. Which is why you are making gross accusations (in the hopes that they may somehow "stick"), rather than discussing the specifics of its content.

What is even more laughable is that you implied earlier that someone very young (what? high school or something?) wrote it:

but that paper seems to betray your lack of formal education on pharmacology and biology. how old are you btw?

With respect to your other comments: what you choose to believe or to not believe has absolutely zero impact on my life. My background in medicine and the sciences would be quite difficult for someone to contrive. At the very least, they would need to have an intimate understanding of how laboratories and medical research worked from the operational level.



I have already said that I don't like playing games, which is exactly what you are doing. It is obvious that you're a compulsive game player, who focuses on attempts at reducing the self image of your perceived "other." You appearently are unable to contain your personal issues, and it definitely isn't my job to deal with your issues.

I don't have time for this kind of crap.

 

[thursday]

no need to get your panties in a bunch. i'm often skeptical of the credentials given by someone over the internet because it's fairly easy to bullshit someone over the net. but you're right, i'm in no position to judge the content of that paper as i don't have the appropriate education, what i said was just opinions based on the limited knowledge that i have on methamphetamine. but i still want to hear you elaborate on your market theory cure of our societal drug problems.