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Barbiturate dependance, is there a way out or is a way out necessary at all?

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swimming.since.99

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12 days ago after blacking out, I consumed 50mg of Flubromazolam, which is equivalent to 200mg Clonazpeam, I didn't mean to do it, and I don't remember doing it. During this time I had suffered respiratory arrest, and was barely saved by paramedics, but that's just a small part of the story. After a couple of days of coma, I experienced something what I thought to be benzo withdrawal, but it wasn't. Brain zaps, warped fish-bowl vision, hearing loud noises and tinnitus, my body felt numb but with a burning sensation at the same time, this was going on for 8 days and it wasn't getting better, a BLer suggested that it was brain damage, maybe, probably extreme excitotoxicity . However on the 9th Day I started using 250mg Pentobarbital x2 a day, what a relief all of the symptoms mentioned above were gone, completely gone, I felt great and I still do. I have been using Pentobarbital for 3 days now, an I am finally feeling normal again.

I am terrified to stop using it, because I remeber those 8 days of horror. I wanted to ask: do I have to? Can I just keep using it, it stops all of that insanity, and where I am located right now, I can get Pentobarbital, Allobarbital, Amobarbital and Phenobarbital for very reasonable prices and very large amounts. I still have 6.5 grams of Pentobarbital left, it won't last for long so I will be buying more soon.

What would be your advice guys, should keep using barbiturates or should I find a way out of this situation?
 
Well, no, to answer your question. You should find a way out. Obviously cold turkey is not safe or practical. Since you have such access to it, write out a taper plan on paper, and calculate how much barbs you'll need to complete the taper. Stock up on that amount of drug, and stick to your taper. You can do it over months - this does not have to be rapid. I'm assuming that you are a long term benzo or barbituate user, correct?
 
flyingpertyhigh said:
Well, no, to answer your question. You should find a way out. Obviously cold turkey is not safe or practical. Since you have such access to it, write out a taper plan on paper, and calculate how much barbs you'll need to complete the taper. Stock up on that amount of drug, and stick to your taper. You can do it over months - this does not have to be rapid. I'm assuming that you are a long term benzo or barbituate user, correct?
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Yeah, that's correct. I thought about taper, but what if that nightmare comes back? The excitotoxicity has done enough damage, I don't want to risk it again :(
 
swimming.since.99 said:
Yeah, that's correct. I thought about taper, but what if that nightmare comes back? The excitotoxicity has done enough damage, I don't want to risk it again :(
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I just read your other thread. This is a lot more involved than I thought. I'll let the more experienced people chime in.
 
I read your other post. How long has it been since your od? It's half life is so long that the withdrawal would last longer than say, chemicals like etizolam (main metabolite half life is 8 hours). The fact that the barbs are taking away all the symptoms, indicates that it is possibly prolonged withdrawal, instead of excitotoxicity. This being said, I'm not a doctor. Wishing you well
 
Upon re reading, am I correct in thinking you're just shy of two weeks? That's not long after a heroic dose of flubro. I would use the barbs to do a real slow taper, to avoid instigating the symptoms you fear.
 
Hey man- I don't know why you don't think those symptoms you were experiencing WEREN'T benzo withdrawal symptoms, because those were the exact symptoms I experienced coming off of theraputic doses of valium - and that was a taper to boot. Depersonalization/ derealization (fishbowl vision), numbness, tinnitus and sounds exacerbated.

My theory is that you took such a heroic dose, that you somehow became dependent to some degree, and thus experienced withdrawal symptoms upon discontinuation.

But hey- that's just my guess... and who am I?

TAPER SLOW.... read the Ashton Manual.
 
You realize that you can die from barbituate withdrawal right? If you develop a serious dependency to it, you will die from the withdrawal. With benzos and barbs it is always a good idea to check yourself into a hospital. I know you are young, think about what you are doing with these downers. I was addicted to benzos in my early 20s and it was a big mistake. Benzos, esp abused, can be a long dark road. I'm sure barbs arent any better. Think about your brain, you could be creating permanent anxiety issues for yourself. If you need something for anxiety there are other options. Don't self medicate with RC benzos and barbs. Find alternative ways to deal with these things. Get some counseling, go to a rehab. You are way too young to messing around with shit like this. Bad things happen buddy. Be smart, I know you got it in you. You can avoid a lot of pain if you give up on the downers.
 
I would suggest tapering off with a long acting Barb preferably Phenobarbital or failing that Primidone which metabolizes into Phenobarbital. That's the only way to safely taper off Barbs as they have about the worst and most dangerous withdrawal symptom of any drug out there. Barbiturate wd is alot more dangerous then Benzo withdrawal from what i have read.

But yeah if you went to a doctor about this more then likely they would taper you off using Phenobarbital as it has a very long half life. Sorta the Valium of Barbiturates.
 
Thank you for all of the advices. I certainly should have switched to Phenobarbital, but too late now. I took a heroic step and decreased my pentobarbital dosage from 250mg to 200mg. I wasn't on BL these 3 days because I was trying to survive absolute hell + 1 seizure, however today things got a bit better.

I haven't slept all that time, and have some 40mg big orange methadone tablets, should I use them to get some sleep today?
 
You should never decrease your dosage like that, as you can now see. You should avoid seizures, as that's where the most of the damage to your brain comes from. I would suggest against adding a long acting opioid to the mix. I don't know if my suggestion is any better, but if you really can't get any sleep and it's been days since you slept, then take a bigger dose, something like 210-220mg maybe. Did you feel more or less stable and could sleep with the 250mg? If so, doing as I said could probably prove beneficial. Remember to never drastically decrease your dosages. As others have said, it's potentially fatal, and if not fatal, then still it's very detrimental to your brain.

Also, why do you think it's late to switch to phenobarbital?
 
I have been through Barb withdrawal and went through the vision disturbance...instead of my pupils being round, they were long like a cats. It's a very bad withdrawal, accompanied by a mind-splitting headache. Which I realized you won't get (the headache) only if you are able to fall into REM sleep...even if for a half hour.

I also had chills, insomnia, nausea and vomiting. If you don't need phenobarb, probably not a good idea to take it. My barb wd wasn't phenobarb, from butalbital...definitely get a medically supervised taper....as Capt H. said above.
 
Sorry for not replying for so long guys, it's just my WDs suddenly got worse on Friday. I took 40mg methadone on thursday night and fell into sweet opiate dreams, but I was rudely awakened by ugly barb WD, which came out of fucking nowhere. Starting from Friday and until now I did not get ANY sleep, even when I took another 40mg methadone on saturday. However today things got a bit better, and I hope they won't get worse.

While medically supervised taper seems like the most appropriate idea, it will make me lose belief in my self. I do understand that this might sound a bit daft, however, I feel like I would be able to beat this dependance more effectively, by myself and I would feel stronger if I did, even if I have to suffer through more pain and seizures. This way I would feel stronger than the barbiturates. Things will change. Barbiturates will no longer be my master and I will no longer be their puppet, instead I will be the master of my life, and they would be the puppets that I can simply trash.
Well... This is what I hope for... But it always the same, feeling strong and powerful, and when WD hits you where it hurts, you forget about your target and swivel down the wrong road all over again.

This is what makes me wonder... Is it really worth giving up this habit? The hell you go through during barb WD, will make real hell look like paradise after you die from a seizure. I am lost. Thank you guys so much for all of the advices, I truly appreciate it.
 
swimming.since.99 said:
While medically supervised taper seems like the most appropriate idea, it will make me lose belief in my self. I do understand that this might sound a bit daft, however, I feel like I would be able to beat this dependance more effectively, by myself and I would feel stronger if I did, even if I have to suffer through more pain and seizures. This way I would feel stronger than the barbiturates. Things will change. Barbiturates will no longer be my master and I will no longer be their puppet, instead I will be the master of my life, and they would be the puppets that I can simply trash.
Well... This is what I hope for... But it always the same, feeling strong and powerful, and when WD hits you where it hurts, you forget about your target and swivel down the wrong road all over again.
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This is why you should really get some help. You will still be the one doing all the work. You need support though.<3
 
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