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" Bali 9 " : What is the real story ???..... more information , please

M

Mudshark

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For the previous decade or so we have been led to believe that Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were the "ring - leaders " of the infamous " Bali 9 " syndicate that attempted to import in excess of 8 kg of heroin into Australia ....
The successful bust in Indonesia was a result of a tip off by the Australian Federal Police , who had received information from a relative of one of the couriers ...

As their appalling death sentences approaches an execution date said to be in less than a month there has been a flurry of supporters including the Prime Minister , Deputy PM , Opposition politicians , and many others pleading to the Indonesian President Widodo for clemency and the sparing of their lives . This support appears to be because of : [ 1 ] Australia's opposition to death penalties ; and [ 2 ] the remorse and " rehabilitation " of Chan and Sukumaran while in Kerobokan prison , Bali .

The AFP must have been fully aware that their information would result in Indonesia handing down Capital punishments to Australian citizens - in direct contravention to Australian Government policy . This has been discussed at length in the media , however , to date the AFP , [ then ] AFP Commissioner Keelty , and the government of the day , have imho failed to adequately explain why they behaved as they did instead of simply arresting those involved upon their return to Australia . Ultimately , if these 2 Australian citizens are executed it will be because the AFP and then Howard government of the day acted in direct contravention to Australian government policy .

Furthermore , recent media reports quoting government sources are claiming that Chan and Sukumaran are not in fact the " ring leaders " but merely " lower - middle level " members of the syndicate . If this is the case , more information needs to be disclosed concerning the identities of the actual leaders of this syndicate ; and of course details of the prosecutions of these syndicate leaders . [ 8 kg of heroin is not an insignificant amount , and such a purchase and importation would entail a the investment of a large amount of funds ....

So what is really the truth , and who really is behind this very major crime ?? The Australian people ought to be advised of what is really occurring for this entire matter stinks and smacks [ sorry ] of cover - ups .
 
Unless you're trying to suggest they're in fact entirely innocent....who gives a shit (sorry if that offends anyone). As completely and utterly fucked as capital punishment as, and it should never be applicable to anyone regardless of their crime.....they knew full well it was the law. And they got busted, one way or another.

Why the fuck does everyone seem to think Australia has some sort of obligation to intervene in another country's affairs, as backwards as they are? Too fucking bad. Don't get caught with drugs in a country that'll shoot you for it. No matter how bad your situation or how desperate you may be, it's a risk you know full well you're taking.
 
While I'd guess the authorities know who else was involved higher up, without enough evidence there is no way they would risk legal action by naming names. It goes without saying if you were importing 8kg of smack, you'd want someone else to then distribute it. I'm sure the $5million odd street value would have filtered further than Chan and Sukamaran if they had made it back to Australia.
 
my opinion is if you go to a foreign country and act like an asshole I'm not gonna feel bad for you, ever.
 
I feel bad they're being put to death for it, coz like I said imo capital punishment should never be applicable....except for maybe the lowest of low bottom of the barrel serial-murderer-paedophiles etc etc....but even then I believe other punishments to be more fitting (like multiple life sentences with no chance of parole and as much solitary confinement as possible....or just chucking them in a gaol with inmates that won't really take kindly to their crimes)...even then though, the bottom line stands - you knew the consequences; you took the risk anyway....and got caught. It's not our problem; we're not obliged to forcefully deliver your get out of gaol free card, especially when really it risks international relations (not that I give a fark for Indonesia/Bali) even pushing for it, let alone getting our way.

We couldn't do it for David Hicks, and that poor cunt is (and therefore was at the time) innocent of criminal wrongdoing (though he did do some really stupid shit....just not unlawfully). If we couldn't man up and tell the Bush administration to give us our citizen back under HIS circumstances.....you're out of your fucking mind if you think we should be helping convicted drug traffickers get out of theirs.
 
I think serial rapists, pedophiles, sociopaths, and other violent maladjusted motherfuckers should be executed. There is no hope for change until some new form of radical and inhumane brain surgery is invented and honestly I dont want my tax dollars paying for a bed and three squares for a Dahmer in the meantime. Flush and reset
 
^agreed but thems the breaks, they knew what they were getting into and now want an international incident to save them?
 
They've done their time & have rehabilitated, now they're educating others & studying to better them selves. The way the execution is performed is sickening!! I'll never support that!

Rtp
 
trozzle said:
Unless you're trying to suggest they're in fact entirely innocent....who gives a shit (sorry if that offends anyone). As completely and utterly fucked as capital punishment as, and it should never be applicable to anyone regardless of their crime.....they knew full well it was the law. And they got busted, one way or another.

Why the fuck does everyone seem to think Australia has some sort of obligation to intervene in another country's affairs, as backwards as they are? Too fucking bad. Don't get caught with drugs in a country that'll shoot you for it. No matter how bad your situation or how desperate you may be, it's a risk you know full well you're taking.
Click to expand...

And yet when indonesian fishermen enter our waters illegally to rape our country of its enviroment and resources the Indonesian government regularly intercedes on their behalf with assistances and representation. Oh i guess fishermen aren't evil drug traffickers.

Yet the best thing about your point about you know respecting the independence of another country is that we're not exactly trying to dictate to the Indonesians how they run their country. All we're asking for is for a couple of guys to serve a sentence at home. We regularly sent back their fishermen why can't they send us back the drug traffickers?

The ridiculous point of all is that despite billions of spending in law enforcement in both Australia and Indonesia, despite dracian laws and countless executions of drug traffickers has either country stopped drug trafficking? I mean come on, walking through Bali and most of Indonesia is like walking through Cabramatta at the height of the smack moonsoon we had.

Lastly you wouldn't be talking like that if it wasy you or one of your friends/family who had made a mistake. The Federal Police knew they were trafficking. If the Indonesian's hadn't have been tipped off the Feds would have fucked them all the same. The idea that Indonesia is the last bastion of justice when it comes to drug traffickers is stupid.

Of course if we follow your argument Trozzle we wouldn't ever intercede anywhere. Rwanda - nup they can pogrom themselves to their hearts content. Same with Serbia/Bosnia. Australia sent SAS to both those places so it wasn't like we were respecting those countries.

So lets look at intervene on its merits rather then some blank rule that does nothing for no one but make you sound like some hard cunt on some internet forum.

Birc0014 said:
I think serial rapists, pedophiles, sociopaths, and other violent maladjusted motherfuckers should be executed. There is no hope for change until some new form of radical and inhumane brain surgery is invented and honestly I dont want my tax dollars paying for a bed and three squares for a Dahmer in the meantime. Flush and reset
Click to expand...

Why don't you spend some time in the District and Supreme court and listen to some paedophile & rape stories.

I'm not justifying it but once a upon of these time these people were normal and weren't hurting others. Something broke in them to do this another human. Killing them or throwing away the key, really isn't a solution. It doesn't stop a single rape from happening nor does killing them

It doesn't even make the victims feel much better. A momentary slight feeling to be washed by bitterness and hate.

The root cause is that we don't intervene in the families of people at risk. Families financially stressed, broken from multi generational abuse. These families need help and yet the state can fund coppers to pick em up after beating each other up but not for nurses, treatment and interventions. So many people could be helped if there were shrinks to be seen, affordable dentist to fix mouths rotten with pain and broken teeth (i'm making the point that chronic pain makes you do crazy things). There is always money for a fucking useless battle tank but not enough to help Wazza from Liverpool get his shit together. Coz you know his a fuckwit so lets not care about him. Lets buy a tank coz you know how many times the ADF has needed a tank in the last 50 years. (once).

We are funding the wrong people in our society and have been for decades. No wonder we still have these evil crimes still happening. Prison and the police have utterly failed us.
 
Killing people for a bunch of drugs, what a fucking joke. 10 years in their shit hole jails is way more than enough, send them ALL home and let them face the Aussie courts (or whichever country they are from) and then after they get through jail here then let them out to do whatever the they wont (except travel to countries that wont allow them because of their records).
 
Do you think they would have been model citizens if they hadn't been caught and made it back to Australia with all that smack? Do you think they would have turned their life around if suddenly they had $5million at their disposal 10 years ago?

They were career criminals, wannabe gangsters who no doubt would have continued to be a menace to society. All the Australian justice system would have done was created a cycle of repeat offending and slaps on the wrist.

Making excuses for criminals ignores the fact that the majority of people from disadvantaged homes don't actually resort to crime. They manage to suffer through their poverty without having to break the law. It's only the selfish and evil who turn to crime, who bully, assault and murder, who chose the quick fix by stealing or dealing drugs. It's easier to blame your parents in a sob story of woe when you finally get caught, than accept you were in the wrong. These guys didn't make a mistake, they knew exactly what they were doing as they strapped millions of dollars worth of heroin to their mates. They knew as well as we all do that a death penalty awaited them if they got caught.

It's sad that they chose to waste their lives at such a young age, but that's the risk you run when you gamble your life trafficking drugs in SE Asia.
 
Do I think they would have been decent citizens if they weren't caught? Who the fuck knows what they would have turned out like. I doubt they'd stay doing that kind of stuff for that long though really, people grow up and develop in the brain, they made some mistakes sure, but killing them for it? No way.

They were all pretty young and made a mistake, I find it very hard to believe so many people are just like ahh fuck them they knew the laws, kill them, they would have killed all our kids from smack etc etc.

Killing them does nothing to stop or slow drugs. They are move use alive in jail for the rest of their lives, they will be more productive than dead.

Also compared to all those guys busted for Aus's and the worlds biggest ecstasy bust and the other drugs they imported and planned to these guys had jack shit really. And the guys behind the biggest bust of ecstasy wont even probably spend full life in jail, and definitely not death.
 
So you are pro the death penalty are you?

In my opinion people are either for or against the death penalty no matter where it is and no matter what the crime is.

I have serious concerns why it is used anywhere anymore. Rest of your life in prison is harsh enough and then there is still chances for people that have been set up or wrongly accused.

What these guys did doesn't warrant anything more than 20 years in jail in my opinion, not even that.

The AFP and Bali politicians/cops should have let them get busted on arrival in Sydney, then all this would not be happening and no one would be caring. 20 years in Aus jails then I'm pretty sure they would have learnt their lesson, if they went on to do more crimes, big deal, they get caught again and punished accordingly.
 
I am anti death penalty only due to the number of innocent people who were wrongly put to death in the past. I don't believe that drug trafficking in itself is a justification to be executed, particularly in a country where corruption would have often seen more serious criminal escape penalty. However Indonesia is poor, and it's this equality that is the real reason for the death penalty exists there. In an ideal world Indonesia would have enough money for hospitals, schools and a justice system which treats drug users like humans, just as Australia tries to do. Unfortunately they don't, and these two guys were not driven by desperation rather greed. It is a sad end for them, but plenty of 19 year olds do dumb shit every day. Some live with the scars, others not.

poledriver said:
Also compared to all those guys busted for Aus's and the worlds biggest ecstasy bust and the other drugs they imported and planned to these guys had jack shit really. And the guys behind the biggest bust of ecstasy wont even probably spend full life in jail, and definitely not death.
Click to expand...

Those guys were bad ass Mafia gangsters who murdered (and attempted to murder) plenty of people who got in their way. If any one deserved the death penalty it was probably them. I am not Australian so I didn't grow up worshiping criminals like Ned Kelly. Personally if you don't know how to contribute to society in a harmonious way by the time you are an adult, you have no right to be welcome here. I wouldn't wait for a consensus vote, I'd take them out the back and throw them to the wolves.

My kids are never rehabilitated for the naughty things they do, they are usually punished. If they don't realised after the first time that it was wrong then they are slow learners.
 
Gangters very rarely get that closely involved in this sort of smuggling operation.
My personal opinion is that they were low in the pecking order, probably naive or stupid enough to think the mules they loaded up with dope (or was it their families? I forget the details) wouldn't rat them out to the indonesian or australian federal police.
Smalltime or pawns in a bigger game, i suspect.

I feel nothing but pity for these condemned men.

This is not to say that i think smuggling 8kg of smack into australia is a good thing; but we live in a capitalist society where many forms of earning a "quick buck" are greatly admired by some.

I am - and have been since this all went down - disgusted by Mick Keelty for tipping off the Indonesian authorities.
Australia's rule of not extraditing or cooperating with law enforcement where execution is a possible outcome is not just a political or legal stance; it is an ethical and philosophical one; something that australia and australians could be proud of, until the AFP and howard government spat the whole idea in the nation's face.

That 8 keys of heroin was always going to be australia's problem, not indonesia's.
The "bali nine" should be doing (or have done) time in australia.
What's the real narrative here? Besides not being desperate, fooled or greedy enough to be a drug mule, is that international relations and politics don't give a fuck about human lives.
The libs always manage to piss off or offend the indonesian government when they are in federal government, and my gut feeling is that sucking up to Indonesian law enforcement and govt, rather than any notion of 'punishment' or 'deterrence'.
To me that seems kinda sick.
Want to deter people from smuggling illegal drugs?
Easy - put a stop to the black market demand for the shit.
Execution is barbaric and fucking backwards no matter how you spin it.
Yes, I hold the AFP to blame for this awful situation as much as anyone else.
Soulless motherfuckers.
 
Your post poledriver really made the issues clear to me.

this was australias problem. The h was coming our way and indonesia was merely used as a transit route.

The real domino effect of these drugs would have taken place in our backyard.

And dont trust the afp.

Is anyone here an avid traveller to bali, and would u consider a boycott after this?
 
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