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Bad Trip Benzos

A

asasdsas

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Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
9
Hey all

So I've been a pretty regular psychedelic user for a while now (mostly acid, sometimes DXM and shrooms). However, I just went to college, and because I am experienced and have a large supply of acid, a lot of my friends want to try it. So for that reason, I decided it would be a good idea to have an emergency supply of benzos lying around just in case shit hit the fan and someone starts freaking out. I just got some xanax, but I was curious, what's you guys' protocol regarding that stuff? At what point do you give up on trying to talk someone down and give them xanax instead? And how much should you give them? I have a supply of 10x 2mg bars.
 
If the person is tripping, and they REALLY want out, like truly, and after asking a few times, then I suppose, this would be the time to.take out the Xanax. No sense in trying to force it on themselves at that point. My two cents lol
 
asasdsas said:
I decided it would be a good idea to have an emergency supply of benzos lying around just in case shit hit the fan
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Yeah, wise. :\

asasdsas said:
At what point do you give up on trying to talk someone down and give them xanax instead? And how much should you give them?.
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I guess just use your best judgement.. if someone's having a harrowing white knuckle ride of a bad trip 8( the xanax is clearly justified.
For someone with little/no benzo tolerance, I'd say a 2mg bar is pretty much the perfect dose to bring the trip in for a smooth landing..
 
There's a few things like

- whether they are responsive and coherent besides the 'freaked out' we are talking about. If they are, it can be valuable for experience and character to address the issue. If they are responsive and coherent you can do it together, plus it shows an ability to still navigate psychologically. It is important to know whether they can navigate to find their way out of it (with or without help) or whether the confusion and terror is so extreme that it becomes a little much to expect to work through and make progress.
- whether the issue is rational or irrational. If rational, it's a real fear or problem (or etc) and it can be very therapeutic to deal with it. If not, then it can become pretty pointless and quite difficult. Still, you may not want to give up because there are many lessons to be learned for example about trust (self-trust usually), a crucial thing which if harnessed can help overcome an irrational issue.
- whether they pose a threat to themselves or others. A major one trumping all others because who cares about therapeutic lessons when you are concerned about a threat to your safety?

Someone having a white knuckle ride of a bad trip is not only having a difficult experience but is also likely to have problems like those above. However that may not be so clear, because the better a tripsitter or guide is, the more a potentially difficult experience can be turned around by helping them find the resolutions and closures they need (;even experienced trippers can - although unreliably - guide even while tripping themselves, in some cases better cause they are in the same mindset). So, to know if they can be helped you really have to ask (for starters), and go about it the right way.

Xanax is fine, it's a particularly anxiolytic benzo making it a good one for this purpose... a particularly hypnotic or anticonvulsive or myorelaxant benzo would be less suitable. I have etizolam on hand myself mostly. And I keep a seroquel within reach just because noone should think they are immune to going psychotic, but I definitely don't count on having to use it. That's for emergencies when you don't want a calming down but a trip stopped in its tracks.

Do not take any of it lightly, because reaching for the benzos too easily (not counting relief of physical tension after the mental trip is long over), can result in issues being frozen. You always want them solved when you can and not frozen.
 
^Good advice there. :)

I think you could calm someone down with conversation and maybe 0.5mg of xanax. 2mg is much too high for someone with no tolerance. Particuarly if that someone is already really confused and out of it, xanax/benzos may make their behaviour more alarming or unpredictable. I had a mate who had taken 20mg of 2C-E, and was a bit drunk- started getting very confused, couldn't see properly, was hitting on everyone, essentially blacked out. He apparently took it upon himself to eat a shitload of temazepam. I lost track of him but later heard that he had lost the plot, smashed a beer bottle and used it to cut his chest multiple times. Minor cuts but a valuable lesson, extreme disinhibition when tripping does not always work so well.
 
Yea I had a friend freak out on 1.2mg of an nBOME, completely lose the plot 100%, and 3-4mg etizolam made things worse. He became an absolute dick and proceeded to fuck with us in our attempts to help him for the next few hours. To the point that I legitimately questioned at the time whether I wanted to be friends with him anymore.
 
That's why I think small benzo dose just to settle panic and then working through the issue is best. My mate would have taken over 150 mg of temazapam with no tolerance.
 
How does valium do in that regard ? I know it doesn't stop the trip. But how does it do in terms of calming down and taking the edge off ? It's currently the only benzo I have access to and few of my mates are asking to don their fist psychedelic experiences with me. Some already had and it mostly went well, but I want some safety button. I had a bad shroom experience, I was with others, but I didn't take any valium or talk to them about it to see if I can handle myself in that situation, I did but I know not every one has the same level of self control that I do.
 
Durzo1258 said:
How does valium do in that regard ? I know it doesn't stop the trip. But how does it do in terms of calming down and taking the edge off ? It's currently the only benzo I have access to and few of my mates are asking to don their fist psychedelic experiences with me. Some already had and it mostly went well, but I want some safety button. I had a bad shroom experience, I was with others, but I didn't take any valium or talk to them about it to see if I can handle myself in that situation, I did but I know not every one has the same level of self control that I do.
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A standard dose of diazepam is absolutely fine. IME the trip is still powerful (depending on dose/circumstance), but it just means you're not necessarily going to be teetering quite so close to the edge anymore.

asasdsas said:
I just got some xanax, but I was curious, what's you guys' protocol regarding that stuff? At what point do you give up on trying to talk someone down and give them xanax instead?
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I think it's important to have a situation whereby people can make the choice/take it themselves. If somebody is starting to feel anxious and things are becoming a bit chaotic, then the last thing you really feel like doing is announcing it to the others, or having to 'request' a benzo at somebody else's discretion. Obviously it shouldn't be an issue, but this kind of social ease really comes with long term, good, open friendships (incidentally such friendships can certainly be fast-tracked by taking psychedelics together - you can see why...); just bare in mind that if you're not particularly close, or haven't been in this situation together/with others, then people might be hesitant to reveal any kind of 'weakness'.

I suggest kind of openly explaining that if anybody feels they are struggling, or might, then that is fine and they can be open about it. :) Maybe suggest things to do in such an event; such as going for a walk, which is brilliant for taking your mind off things.

I'd also suggest explaining that taking a benzo is fine, and perhaps have them openly on a table/shelf or something, where people can take one if required. Or even give them one each.

It all completely depends on the social dynamics and constituents of the group though, really.

For the record, I sometimes take a benzo before tripping, and I've had my mind blown wind open. I'm quite happy to take a benzo openly in front of friends when tripping, too. It's usually at this point that they take one as well.

:)
 
I've said this before, and in other places, and I truly believe that benzos, in some ways, have become like a safety net for some people who are intimidated/anxious/worried about using psychedelics. In saying that, I wonder how many people who use psychs, if told that there would NEVER be an "antidote" to the drug's effects, would continue to use them. I hear time and time again, people talking about how having benzos around is just another part of the "new guard" of psychedelic users and part of the "emergency" kill-switch to employ should they be in too deep. Well, I am biased because I have been taking LSD and other compounds since long before benzos were easily available, and to be honest, none of the many people I tripped with ever entertained the idea of killing or subduing a trip because of fear, anxiety, etc. I always considered all the emotional baggage that comes with psychs part of an important learning process that you endure, often struggle through, which is in many ways character building and part and parcel to the experience. Many of the best trips I have ever had, and most spiritual, often came on the heels of a wicked, anxious come-up...probably a time that I would have bailed if I had that benzo-as-safety-net mentality. I am not against using them, of course, but I do know that I liked LSD better when I didn't have a satchel of benzos in the drawer, "just in case". Just my 2 cents worth, and with inflation, probably less than a penny's worth.
 
I never used to have benzos on hand and would always just ride out bad experiences and I do think that riding them out is definitely the best option if you're able to.

After a couple of particularly bad trips leading to some anxiety around tripping, I began to keep some benzos around in case. Only ever used them mid-trip once and it did seem to cause this feeling that something was unresolved when I came down (i normally get the opposite feeling after tripping).

I took one before tripping once and it just led to a dulled and less enjoyable trip (in the sense that it underwhelmed).

I personally think having benzos available is probably sensible but that they should not be used unless the user is incredibly distressed and there's just no way they can get through it. As stated above you also need to be careful not to give anyone too high of a dose as that could also be problematic.

I've always used diazepam as it's the medical standard benzo and probs what they would give you if you went to hospital having a bad trip (if it was the result of anxiety rather than some sort of psychosis). 2.5-5mg should be enough for someone with no tolerance to start off with.
 
Very true, you should always try your best to just pull through, I've hardly ever truly needed them myself during trips although have often preferred to take them on a very late tail end when for some reason I would rather ruin the clarity with some fuzziness than put my body through more tension...
Though one time I intervened that comes to mind involved too much DOB and oral hash that did not cause a bad trip (although the hyperdimensional stuff was heavy) but was like my nerves were being pulled over a cheese grater. It was absolutely not healthy - not in terms of toxicity but stress etc. Diazepam helped out and there was nothing left unresolved as it did not involve mental issues. I can't say whether the proliferation of RCs makes a difference in the purpose of benzos because of unforeseen effects compared to something classical as LSD.

I guess similar to shadow self I didn't use to have any benzos anyway in the beginning for quite a long time... and often got into 'spiritual distress', usually from mushrooms. Many lessons were learned but also much terror was endured. By the time I had any benzos I was used to embracing for example experiences involving confrontation with your own mortality - a classic one of course.

But I've also seen others really get into trouble, and the bottom line is that even though not naturally resolving something is a serious problem, you sometimes have to weigh that against even more serious problems and you have to choose the lesser of two evils. It really depends what that is.
Having benzos as one of your options is not really the problem but considering them a safety net for anything difficult rather than truly harmful or emergencies... that is a problem. It's complex to say what abuse of a drug says about the legitimacy of it's use in general.
 
Maybe they should be employed more judiciously - I agree that many of us take the easy way out too quickly - but I absolutely believe benzos and an antipsychotic should be on hand anytime anyone trips on anything anywhere.

As OP will soon find out when sharing with his friends, "YMMV" in-fucking-deed. It's all fine when someone is simply getting naked or crying, but Ill gladly hand someone a Haldol and an Etizolam if it's really going south - rather not wrestle them, naked, back into the house ever again.
 
I hear you, but I will say this. I've been taking LSD on and off (mostly on in the 80s and 90s...literally) and you know what? I have tripped around hundreds and hundreds of people and never once did I see anyone "freak out" or lose their shit, other than some getting super anxious, and other manifestations of "bad trips", and I used to be around people like me, who took lots of LSD and pretty large doses. I find that very interesting. So, the same LSD, same relative doses I'd surmise, LOTS of people using it, and yet, no naked people, no suicide attempts, not even screaming and running around. Nothing. I think that at least in part, bad trips have been telegraphed by the vehicles of media, lore, story-telling, and propaganda. I by no means would suggest that they don't exist, because I've lived through quite a few myself, but like I said before, no neuroleptics or benzos to help, nothing, and we all made it through just fine. From a sociological point of view, I think it is an interesting line of inquiry to pursue why that is. I also think that, in general, more people have access to psychedelics and when you increase that number, you also increase the number of people that are at a higher risk of having a bad experience.
 
^
Literally EVERY time ive seen someone go down the dark side while tripping, have been bad tripping because of things planted in their head through media.
I stand heavily by bad trips wouldnt exist in the same way if it werent for bad ego's and weird media enforced thought processes.
I think the only bad trips we would be having without is if you got attacked by a tiger while tripping or stranded by your tribe. Idk.


Btw can i ask while the topics open?
I have heard using benzos to down a trip can potentially be bad for your brain.. Is this true?
I cant tell because you could damage yourself on a bad enough trip, but then if the benzos do you no good whats the trade off?

Cant remember where i heard this btw
 
I don't see why that would be true and I've never heard it anywhere before. Perhaps it might leave your psyche in a strange place due to unresolved issues, but that doesn't equate to having actually caused damage to your brain.
 
terarc said:
I don't see why that would be true and I've never heard it anywhere before. Perhaps it might leave your psyche in a strange place due to unresolved issues, but that doesn't equate to having actually caused damage to your brain.
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Yea true
 
If talking the issue over isn't working or there is some danger. Working through it's best in an ideal world but at the end of the day if things look out of hand sometimes it's better just to play safe rather than have someone crash and burn - my worst trip on shrooms I wish I had benzos to hand - I was messed up mentally for a long time after the trip and even in retrospect can't draw much positive; years and years later I am fine but I can't help thinking I would have been better without it and it's aftermath. I would agree the dose should be modest - blackout-confusion or other bento problems will be good on top of tripping even given it reduces the level of the trip - just taking the edge off even a bit generally really works and starts to get you out of a loop and starts to reduce seizure threshold (if relevant), panic accelerated heart rate etc. The majority of psyches aren't hugely dangerous and it is a matter of smoothing things a bit.
 
Instead of continuing the debate on when to administer a benzo, which one seems to work the best? Benzos are a class of drug I know next to nothing about. I keep etizolam on hand so that I can sleep after tripping on LSD or other stimulating psychedelics though. Just wondering what would be most effective for ending a nightmare trip.
 
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