• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

Atheist's good or bad reputation

falsifiedhypothesi

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
4,254
Atheism is a conclusion I came to early on in life. I have always been a cold and calculating individual, but I have empathy. I am naturally very kind and forgiving but when I've told certain people of my atheism they give me a strange glance. I have not faced persecution as an atheist, I was lucky enough to grow up in a somewhat liberal and mostly religion free home.

When I told my parents of my beliefs at age 15, my dad was almost completely indifferent and my mother made only a small effort to try and convert me. My neighbor, who is a firm believer in the Christian faith and whom my family has gone to church with, was also surprised to discover my atheism. We were having lunch one day when the subject came up, but the word atheist never entered the conversation. When pressed I only told her I had yet to experience any sort of God and had no reason to believe. She, like my mother, was also very receptive.

Maybe It was because I was respectful and non-argumentative or maybe it was that people haven't understood exactly where I stand, either way I haven't had any problems because of my athiesm.

With a large percentage of the US Christian it makes it easier for Christians to flex. This means their views, good or bad, are more commonly reinforced by their fellowship. How are atheists viewed in your country, state; town, or school?
 
Good post and question.

In Australia, I've never noticed any opposition to being non-religious. I don't really indentify as an atheist though, more agnostic seeker with panetheistic aspirations. :\ I think that everywhere has a problem with people being militantly or aggressively atheistic in the same way that people take issue to overt religious declarations. In Australia, there is a conservative religious right but its pretty powerless. Most would be slightly suspicious of organised religion (and for good reason if you know whats happening in Australia re: child abuse and institutions) but would possibly go to church at Christmas or send their children to Christian schools. I don't think the majority would believe in god in Australia. So atheism is seen as pretty much normal, though in Austrlia you never make any claims about yourself at all... I have my own spiritual views and as a conversation topic they go absolutely nowehere to most in my immediate vicinity...

My Italian friend (militant atheist) says Australia is just a large country/small town. :\
 
Some people have a knee-jerk reaction to attack and criticize athiests. It's like they feel threatened.
I'm an atheist as well, but when I talk to atheist friends about certain things, they are kind of dismissive - what's the nature of the cosmos, what happened before the Big Bang.... Because science can't address these things, they don't like to talk about them.
 
This is in no way a criticism, but Atheism is surely the most puritanical, difficult and strict religion of all, requiring more faith, belief and unswerving dedication than any other to follow. By rejecting and dismissing anything unscientific, unworldly, 'supernatural' or weird, it just has to be not only highly vulnerable, but wide open to criticism from anyone who wants to score a few, easy points? Personally, I eschew all organised religions, and the hypocrites, bigots and easily led simpletons who follow them, since I absolutely refuse to be TOLD by anyone claiming to have 'divine answers' what to believe, what to worship, how to behave or what is right and wrong. Atheism is, to me, just about the most unsatisfactory philosophies and/or religions af all!
 
^Atheism doesn't mean materialism. Buddhists are technically atheists, and depending on the form of Buddhism, they might believe in all kinds of esoteric things.
 
Atheism is a conclusion I came to early on in life. I have always been a cold and calculating individual, but I have empathy. I am naturally very kind and forgiving but when I've told certain people of my atheism they give me a strange glance. I have not faced persecution as an atheist, I was lucky enough to grow up in a somewhat liberal and mostly religion free home.

When I told my parents of my beliefs at age 15, my dad was almost completely indifferent and my mother made only a small effort to try and convert me. My neighbor, who is a firm believer in the Christian faith and whom my family has gone to church with, was also surprised to discover my atheism. We were having lunch one day when the subject came up, but the word atheist never entered the conversation. When pressed I only told her I had yet to experience any sort of God and had no reason to believe. She, like my mother, was also very receptive.

Maybe It was because I was respectful and non-argumentative or maybe it was that people haven't understood exactly where I stand, either way I haven't had any problems because of my athiesm.

With a large percentage of the US Christian it makes it easier for Christians to flex. This means their views, good or bad, are more commonly reinforced by their fellowship. How are atheists viewed in your country, state; town, or school?

Most Christians are being deceived. They have a completely backwards view of the Word because of man-made doctrines. However, at least most people know Salvation is grace through faith in God's Son and His Blood.

God's Word is true.

Here is your situation (the one almost no Christians will tell you about because they have been deceived by the concept of "personal responsibility"). You were born into captivity. The rulers of this world are fallen angels, and there is a fallen angel for every household in the world. 1/3rd of the angels rebelled. There are a lot of them. They are older than the Earth and they were created an order above us. They are more powerful than any human. They hold humans captive by sowing inequity in them and then accusing them in front of God. They look to undermine TRUE Faith in God and His Word (Jesus IS the Word). This is because God counts faith as righteousness. If you have faith in God's Word, His Son, you are purchased with His Blood and receive the Holy Spirit. This is what causes God to act on our behalf (faith). Fallen angels know this. Jesus came to set us free. They are looking to keep us captive. God is Love. We were born in captivity not because of Adam and Eve disobeying (that was what caused the fall of the world though), but because of Lucifer's rebellion (which is why Adam and Eve disobeyed). God hates the corruption of this world and its source is not humans, but rather fallen angels. He is very merciful. Now, all you have to do if you want to know the Truth is ask God to reveal the Truth to you in faith that He will because He said He will. I testify to you that He did indeed say that. You don't have to read His Word, or go to a church-building. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is ASK in faith. Believe my testimony that He will personally reveal the Truth to you, and ask Him to in Faith. That is all you have to do. He will do the rest! He is very merciful. Sorry you were born in to captivity. God hates it too. He went to great lengths to free us. I know Him personally now, and He has shown me that He truly loves me eternally. I will ask Him to reveal the Truth to you and ask Him to send an angel to minister to you. If you are to be conformed to the image of His Son and escape the corruption of this world, you will soon know the Truth! God is very, very merciful! He is Eternal, He is Love, He is real (I have met His Son in person and in a vision, and I have met angels along with, regrettably, fallen angels when He opened my ears and my eyes), and He listens. He listens to everything you say. He doesn't watch everything you do though (He can't look on sin). He knows about it but doesn't watch it all. If you are conformed to the image of His Son, all of your sins will literally be forgotten as if they never happened. For all of Eternity. He will start to sanctify you, He will take away your sin, and He will take away your shame. THE RIGHTEOUS ONE HATES THE SHAME. You will not be able to just "stop sinning." He has to sanctify you and take away your shame before that can happen. He is Love! He is eternal!

I'm going to pray for you now. I will pray for anyone else who asks.

Peace in Christ!
 
Personally, I gave up shame for Lent many years ago - along with guilt and jealousy. Decided to abandon them for good, and am a far better, nicer person for it! I am the last person to disbelieve that you have spoken to Jesus, since I am a medium, and a few years ago, being greatly intrigued by Christianity, and what had caused devotees to 'turn to it', was quite surprised to find that almost all of them had been 'approached' by Jesus, and had communication with him.

I was at the time very 'anti-Christian', having been brought up in that faith by a bunch of brutal, stupid, arrogant bigots, who frequently behaved in ways specifically discouraged by Jesus in his teachings, and never followed his example - of love, forgiveness, tolerance and consideration, wonderful, precious teaching that were way ahead of his time! I still am 'anti-Christian', as I associate that word with the hypocritical, corrupt and cruelly paranoid Church, which has done so much evil in Jesus's name. IMO, one or the greatest travesties and atrocities ever done in history!

I was therefore astonished, bewildered and amazed, when Jesus approached me, while 'meditating' in the local churchyard. However, unlike most people he approaches - and he does often it seems - I didn't sink to my knees in pious respect, or quiver in dread and race off to church to get baptised. Being skeptical, and suspicious this was some demonic imposter or mischievous spirit, I sat back, asked a load of questions and we had a conversation. As a keen amateur historian, what an opportunity to find out the truth, from the horses mouth, concerning events in 1st century Palestine, an era all but unrecorded reliably. And, arrogant though it might sound, a chance to really hear the Gospel Truth, from the best source possible!

I immediately wrote it upin as much detail as I could, but I'll spare that for now (I hear sighs ao relief... stoppit!). I've already done far too many, far too long posts, so I'll save this one - perhaps for my blog? Suffice to say, he provided a fscinating insight into the events that led to his ghstly death, where he went wrong, and added cautions of what NOT to do. He was just a man, not God, a half God or anything more. I sensed a terriblefeeling of sadness and impotent despair at the terrible things that have been done in his name, and the way his teachings and advice have been forgotten, perverted and abused. I really liked him - and he did ask to pass this on... hence this.Theres absolutely nothing 'special' about me, I am certainly NOT some prophet, or Pagan Evangelist! I was just there, and very priviledged and lucky to be there IMHO.

One last piece of advice he stressed, which I have heard again and again since was this ..."Don't Get Carried Away!"
 
I don't mean to be rude NOtoInvega but I don't think you understood or even read my OP, you just went on a preachy rant.

To willow11: Do the religious have a lot of government power over there, or any religious inspired laws? By the sound of what you said it seems Australia has a pretty good secular government.

Voyager3 I like how you are skeptical about religious claims but understand that atheism solely the disbelief of gods, absolutely nothing more. Many modern atheists are skeptics, naturalists, and interested in science but those are not contingent on their atheism. Those things may have led them to become atheists but that does not make those positions the tenants of atheism.
 
voyager3 said:
This is in no way a criticism, but Atheism is surely the most puritanical, difficult and strict religion of all, requiring more faith, belief and unswerving dedication than any other to follow. By rejecting and dismissing anything unscientific, unworldly, 'supernatural' or weird, it just has to be not only highly vulnerable, but wide open to criticism from anyone who wants to score a few, easy points?

Sure, some militant atheists are puritanical (Richard Dawkins) in a way, and it is pretty off-putting. But I can't figure out exactly what you mean when you say atheism requires faith. You may need to expand on that a bit. But, as one of the faithful, don't you think its a bit contradictory to try and criticise atheists as being faith-motivated?

Rejecting unscientific or supernatural things is to be encouraged, if you are after the actual truth. Anything else is subjective and not entirely true.



To willow11: Do the religious have a lot of government power over there, or any religious inspired laws? By the sound of what you said it seems Australia has a pretty good secular government.

Religions have virtually no government power in Australia, that I know of. I don't think that any deity or belief is mentioned or referenced in our constitution (though I could be wrong). Our prime minister identifies as catholic I believe, but it is something rarely mentioned, almost like it is an embarrassment. I think that the general community views religion (specifically Christian religions) as something archaic and somewhat ridiculous and so politicians avoid associating with it. Australian govt is secular but has atavisms of its own that are as historically destructive as religion, like generalised racism.

I think many laws are inadvertently based upon Christian ethics, but I can't think of any Australian ones specifically that do.
 
Last edited:
Personally, I gave up shame for Lent many years ago - along with guilt and jealousy. Decided to abandon them for good, and am a far better, nicer person for it! I am the last person to disbelieve that you have spoken to Jesus, since I am a medium, and a few years ago, being greatly intrigued by Christianity, and what had caused devotees to 'turn to it', was quite surprised to find that almost all of them had been 'approached' by Jesus, and had communication with him.

I was at the time very 'anti-Christia ..."Don't Get Carried Away!"
Voyager3, you realize that, by the technical definition of the word atheist, you're probably an Atheist, right? I know you have skills in speaking with the dead and other discarnate entities, as do I, but I think we're both atheists. Neither of us believe Jesus is God, and I don't believe in Bible God. Not sure if you do, but if you don't, that probably makes you an atheist.
 
This is a truly wonderful discussion, and Atheism is something I classed myself as for most of my life. If I have a 'religion', it is my faith and beliefs in things which I have personally experienced, and the most precious, essential part of it is that I try to keep a truly open mind, with reguard to all things. When it comes to god and gods, I suspect (not quite 'believe') that there are far more things in this Universe than I can ever understand, and take great comfort and pleasure in the fact that for every question I get answered, ten new ones appear... which will probably go on forever - in fact, the thought that I DID know everything rather daunts me, it would mean some sort of sterile, pointless existence, and the curiousity which motivates would be gone. I see no danger of that happening in this life, or beyond!

When it comes to God, the ridiculous, humanoid images of such an entity, some naked, beardy old boy sitting on a cloud, or the mighty Allah or Yaweh or Jehovah, all derive from the same nonsensical source, and are patently nonsense. For a start, that god is a 'he'... where did that come from? He then invents Adam in his own image... okay... then has the idea of Eve... based on his own mother? I'm with that foremost theologian of the last century here, the late, Blessed Dave Allen! The idea of God is hard to dismiss even so... and in that sense I am an uncertain Theist perhaps. Whatever it is, I see it in the laws of physics, the wonders of nature and the marvels of Creation if you like. By 'Creation', I look back to the real Origin of our Universe, and insolently say 'Who or What lit the blue touch paer and set off the Big Bang?' - a question which infuriates scientists and followers of organised religion alike, which I rather enjoy!


In short, I don't know, and nor does anyone else - god is just a word (hmmm... that's worrying, heard that before somewhere?), something way beyond our human imaginations and understanding, which has no interest in our welfare, does not require worship - but may well be worthy of respect. Such a 'loving, all forgiving, omnipotent and all knowing' entity would hardly have placed his beloved Earthly 'children' in a remote corner of an unimaginably vast Universe, in a dangerous place menaced by comets, meteorites and asteroids? Never mind the ghastly, earthly dangers we face from disease, natural disasters and (shock! horror!) drugs!


Altogether, I don't know, and will never know for the foreseeable future - and that Epiphany came to me one day at the computer when engaging in a discussion like this... and I sat back, filled with relief, satisfaction and a peculir joy, realising I was 'on the right track' at last!
 
In England atheists are viewed the same as Christians are viewed - as people.. neither one is shunned for their belief (or lack of)..

Unfortunately there are a small minority of right wing racists that seem to think that all muslims are wannabe jihadis but as a whole English society is very open minded and accepting.

I will admit that it does somewhat annoy me (/upset me) when I see Jehovahs witnesses handing out creationist leaflets outside every train station in and around london but i'd never treat any of them with disrespect for doing so.
 
I'm an atheist, however there's this concept called like... duality or some shit.
So it's hard to be an atheist without someone comparing you to something else.
Which kind of.... Well, you don't buy in to religion or whatever, however anyone who does will compare your "faith" or "lack of faith" (even though neither should be an issue to someone with---) I dunno.

You need something-- you can't conceive anything that doesn't include.... faith, a defined meaning?
the argument, however fascinating at it's core is null.
Haha, I'm drunk.

Without without.... without without without...??? Eh???
 
This is in no way a criticism, but Atheism is surely the most puritanical, difficult and strict religion of all, requiring more faith, belief and unswerving dedication than any other to follow. By rejecting and dismissing anything unscientific, unworldly, 'supernatural' or weird, it just has to be not only highly vulnerable, but wide open to criticism from anyone who wants to score a few, easy points? Personally, I eschew all organised religions, and the hypocrites, bigots and easily led simpletons who follow them, since I absolutely refuse to be TOLD by anyone claiming to have 'divine answers' what to believe, what to worship, how to behave or what is right and wrong. Atheism is, to me, just about the most unsatisfactory philosophies and/or religions af all!


Holy Jeebus Chrust. That's just about the most gigantic strawman I ever saw, well done.

No one is telling anyone to be an atheist. Saying "there is no God, and religion is bullshit" is an opinion. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, and everybody is entitled to say their opinion publicly. And an opinion is not something which it is needed to have blind faith in, which you seem to think. Opinions are maleable, they can change. Not so with faith, you either believe or you don't believe. (Well, I guess you can doubt, but that makes you a bad theist, doesn't it?)

How can atheism be puritanical? That's nonsense. Atheism just means lack of faith in a God or gods. There's no dogma or intrinsic doctrine "to follow" in atheism. There's nothing you have to do or not do, as an atheist. There's no moral or ethic precepts.

There's communist atheists, fascist atheists, nihilist atheists, libertarian atheists, humanist atheists, buddhist atheists, etc ad nauseam.

That much should be obvious, but apparently it isn't.

If you, by "difficult and strict" mean that being an atheist demands some kind of fanaticism or zealous faith, then you are again talking complete rubbish. Atheism can take what ever shape you want, everything from agnosticism: finding it quite unlikely that there is a God, and keeping it to oneself, to being absolutely sure there's no God, and being full on anti-theistic about it, due to all the religious bullshit in the world. I can personally relate to the whole spectrum.

And unsatisfactory? You know what I would find unsatisfactory? To find my answers about life and the universe, in a 3000 years old bronze-age book, written by people who didn't know why it rained, and who believed the earth was flat and that the heavens rested on pillars. That would be unsatisfactory, seriously unsatisfactory.

Atheism doesn't demand faith, like religion does, just a willingness to acknowledge that we don't know everything (yet ) Most religion are actually extremely arrogant by claiming they have all the answers to something so unfathomable as our existence and the universe. In this way science is humble, since it never claims to have any absolute answers, while the arrogance of theism is complete. "God did it all with magic - end of topic".

Most atheists have become atheists, not by conversion as with religions, but through a logical line of reasoning, often based on science.
Generally, the scientific discoveries about the universe around us, done in the age of enlightenment, is what really set atheism going. Because it really became much more difficult to believe in magic and miracles, once we discovered the fundamental laws of nature. Of cause, some people persist with superstitions, maybe because it is a basic psychological need of humans to anthropomorphize the universe, and thus embue a meaning into a meaningless existence.

Anyway, I think science and atheism are linked.

And the difference between a scientific worldview and a theistic one, is that the scientific worldview is verifiable.

For instance, if I claim, that by using Newtons laws of gravity, it's possible to bring a rocket into space, and that they therefore are true. You can test it by using the same laws, and thereby bring your own rocket into space. Therefore, Newtons laws of gravity are verifiable. Everytime some one test them, they get the same results.

The laws have never ever fail, which is why they are called "laws". *(1)

Now oppose that to a claim of "Jesus Christ is the son of God" (the son of Yahve or El, that is)
There is no way of verifiying that! For all we know Jesus could be the son of Odin, or the son of Satan, because how do you know that Satan didn't write the bible to fool humans to worship his son?
Or maybe Jesus was just an ordinary man, or maybe he didn't exist at all? There's actually no real evidence of either Jesus having lived, or the purported tall stories in the new testament being true. And the 4 different gospels can't really agree on the story anyway. Add to that, that the new testament was written by anonymous authors, the earliest 50 years after Jesus alleged death, so it's completely useless as any kind of witness account, which it actually doesn't claim to be anyway.

I guess that's why it's called faith, I suppose.

But nevermind that, if someone can find wisdom in the new and old testament, then good for them. I know I can't, and to me it's just nonsense from begining to end. I have to say preemptively that the historicity of Jesus and the bible is something I really couldn't be bothered less to discuss.

In the age we live in, we have developed "the scientific method", which in my opinion makes faith-based physics obsolete, which is basically what religion is. An attempt to explain the world around us by faith instead of knowledge.

Some people will claim that physics and science is about the physical world, while theism is about the spiritual world. Well, in my opinion, neuroscience has proven that there is no soul, which means there's no spiritual world either, obviously, this is not a fact but rather my conclusion on the existing data. Remember, each and every spiritual or religious experience is always completely subjective and unverifiable.

Add to that, they don't conform to each other. For instance, many people have completely different NDE's. If you, when clinically dead really experience what will happen after death, then everybody should have more or less the same experience. Well, folks don't. There's a wide variety of NDE's reported.
So, I personally find it most likely that NDE's are just made up in our brains, which actually is the creator of our reality anyway, and therefore certainly has what it needs to make us experience anything it might want, and that even in a hyperrealistic way.

And, as others have said, atheism is neither a philosophy or a religion, although the question of wether there exists a God or not, sure is a philosophical question in itself.

Well, that became a bit longer than I intended, and it wen't kind of off-topic, sorry about that. Horray for espresso induced rants, lol. And Voyager3, I saw some of you other posts after writing this, and I find your last one making a bit more sense than your 2 first in this thread, and I see we have some common ground there. And I'd comment on them too if I wasn't on my tablet.

*(1): The caveat here is; that in science, nothing is ever set in stone, and in the case of gravity, we saw Einstein expound on this in his general theory of relativity. But that doesn't make Newtons laws of gravity obsolete. I believe that when the graviton one day is found, or what ever kind of field that is responsible for spacetime dilation, it will revolutionise physics, and again elaborate on Einsteins theory of general relativity.
 
^Atheism doesn't mean materialism. Buddhists are technically atheists, and depending on the form of Buddhism, they might believe in all kinds of esoteric things.

Not all Buddhists are atheists the way a lot of westerners believe. Some Buddhists believe in the Hindu gods/goddesses, and others believe in Buddhist gods/goddesses/deities/Bodhisattvas, etc.
 
@Priest

Yes, absolutely. Bodhisattvas are more like saints though, I believe, aren't they? But you are quite right, And I think many buddhists even worship Buddha as some kind of god, it's my impression anyway. And there sure is a lot of superstition in most branches of buddhism, imo. Tibetan buddhism, for instance, still contain elements from the ancient tibetan shamanic traditions, or so I've been informed anyway. Lots of demons and stuff. :)
I'm no expert though, even I did join a vipassana retreat once in India, and that "branch" of buddhism seemed to me to have a very logic based and "scientific" worldview. But I think that is just untill one get's deeper into it..

I remember reading once how they have an enormous pagoda in Yangoon, Myanmar, plated in gold, which was called "buddhas modesty". Lol.
 
^Also in Burma, a New Zealand guy in jail for 2 years for promoting his bar using an image of the Buddha wearing headphones. It was considered insulting. I find the attitude of mass religions, whereby you can somehow insult a concept, to be extremely distasteful. They reveal themselves as mind-control systems when their precepts are enshrined in law. Buddhism may not have a deity but it behaves like religions that do in some cases.
 
^Atheism doesn't mean materialism. Buddhists are technically atheists, and depending on the form of Buddhism, they might believe in all kinds of esoteric things.
yeah. buddhist are atheist. I believe in deva realms and believe in the existence of more subtle and higher form of consciousness entities, but they do not have any power over me and dont have any importance in my life.

The love for buddha is simply the love and gratitude we feel toward his teaching. the buddha is no god, hes a man that has found the way out of samsara and the most noble teacher.

Not all Buddhists are atheists the way a lot of westerners believe. Some Buddhists believe in the Hindu gods/goddesses, and others believe in Buddhist gods/goddesses/deities/Bodhisattvas, etc.
all true for the most part. I dont know about tibetan monks really developping a relationship of devotion toward gods ect. its more like they know they exist but buddhist dont attach themselves to gods like hindus. Hindus are really serious about the belief of different gods and their influence on one's own life.
gods in buddhism is more a folklore things for lay people and hold absolutely no importance to reach nirvana.
 
If you're a good person, I couldn't care less if you believe in a God. It's your born right to do that. As long as you don't force feed it down my throat, no harm no foul. It's only when people(religious or atheist) force feed you their beliefs, or lack there of, that I feel it's a negative thing. Whatever floats ur boat brotha!!
 
Top