Atheism and theism are not mutually exclusive.

[ovenbakedskittles]

Atheists are actually closer to the vibration of god because they are more authentic in finding out truth about reality and embody the most acceptance towards physical life. The spiritual circle is that you want to find out all of these esoteric things only to realize that the whole point in the end was to focus on your physical life and friends and family and connections and relationships. That is what true spirituality is because the soul used it’s free will to experience physical reality in the first place. That is why we were born. Therefore a lot of people who have the desire to figure out spiritual truths of reality are engaging in a type spiritual escapism. If you are atheist, you are less likely to escape physical life and you wholeheartedly accept the illusion of physical reality and are more willing to learn the lessons from it and to gain expansion from that physical experience.

Furthermore, Christian’s and other religious people or people who have any type of metaphysical inclination tend to be people with particular psychological and emotional hang ups such as fear of death or fear of letting go. And so they create an idol of the real god in the form of concept and thought image. In other words, they think god is something you can conceptualize and have an idea of. And they think it is a being that is separate from them that requires worship and reverence in a very traditional and practical sense. Even people like me who say that god is one and god is everything in the universe at once, there is still some degree that is catering to the ideological version of god rather than acknowledging god being imbedded in my personal experience in a deeper dimensional sense. There is always going to be a degree of distortion whenever we use logic or language or ideas to try and understand god. Because he is so imbedded in our personal experience it is almost impossible to really penetrate that aspect of your consciousness that is able to be aware of that extra dimensional layer of the soul that is able to observe things objectively.

However, atheists are actually able to experience god more because they embrace physical life and physical understanding and they wholeheartedly accept the illusion that we only have one chance at life and that experiences with our family and friends are more important and having a sense of community and humanitarianism because they believe that they will just evaporate into nothingness when they die. Which gives a sense of gratitude and more of a willingness to have a fulfilling life. And that’s not to say that us having one life is fully an illusion. Because we will most likely not embody the same ego or have a repeat of this specific individual life, but at the same time it is an illusion in the sense that we maybe able to have other lives and other existences in order to redeem ourselves. But that esoteric potentiality is not necessary to know in order to possess a sense of community and humanitarianism. As a matter of fact it might hinder that sense of community and humanitarianism and cause you to have grandiose ideas about reality that can potentially harm those around you depending on what kind of person you are. But I suppose the same can be said about a disturbed individual who thinks there is no point to life because there is no god.

 

[nepalnt21]

atheist here

thanks? i guess...

i have been saying for awhile that if there's a god, she wants us to be atheists (considering the void of good evidence for a god, and the plurality of evidence that would suggest a hands- off god, if there is one [or many]).

so i'm only doing god's work by not accepting claims of her (their) existence.

 

[sonicwhite]

What do you have to look forward to when you die. Oblivion. Do you think I fear the worse death. No my friend. I welcome it. Cuz I'll see the One I love more then anything. A fool says in His heart there is no God, what he's actually saying is there is no God for me. For creation and its visible qualities are exposed to everyone so no one has an excuse. Remember you're basing all your cards on you knowledge. Which is fallible. When you find out He's more real then this reality it is the most euphoric beautiful experience. You must come to Him with a child like faith. Yet He loves you so deeply. Don't think life will go on. Cuz you'll notice your 80 yrs old. Life is just a vapor.

 

[Dreamflyer]

That's sort of what I consider being an agnostic. I personally believe in God, but I can never say 100% for sure because I've never met the guy (to quote the M&M dude in the Christmas commercial with Santa)!

If there is a creator, I don't see why he would have just revealed himself to a handful of people in Jerusalem over 2,000 years ago, and left the whole rest of the world on their own with no chance of salvation.

The Native Americans were praying to the Great Spirit 10,000 years before the Bible was ever written. Who's the Great Spirit? GOD!

So either billions of people have shared the same delusion, or there's something that our ancestors have known for ions. Either way, I'm okay with it.

I identify as a Christian because that's where I found my faith, but I NEVER try to force it on anybody else. People like that annoy me.

Peace, Love & Faith,
Dreamflyer

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

If there is a creator, I don't see why he would have just revealed himself to a handful of people in Jerusalem over 2,000 years ago, and left the whole rest of the world on their own with no chance of salvation.

The Native Americans were praying to the Great Spirit 10,000 years before the Bible was ever written. Who's the Great Spirit? GOD!

God reveals himself to those who are willing to endure the spiritual discipline that is required for such a revelation.

In ancient times, we were more connected to god. That is why the pyramids were built and such. We have fallen away and have become brainwashed and dumbed down. Therefore, life energy cannot flow through us properly and we are forced to be ignorant of god until we use our free will to awaken ourselves and return to our optimal state of being. The people of Judaism and Christianity 2000 years ago were simply people who did just that. They broadened their awareness so that they were capable of letting life force energy in and had access to other dimensions. Jesus himself is one who opened himself so wide that his impact is still acknowledged today. Although I wouldn’t say that the reality matches what’s in the Bible.

 

[skipjames]

Furthermore, Christian’s and other religious people or people who have any type of metaphysical inclination tend to be people with particular psychological and emotional hang ups such as fear of death or fear of letting go.

Well, also the idea that there is NO afterlife can be reassuring; thinking " when I die I die, i can make of my life what i want and then that s it. I ll disappear "is more reassuring than, say, having to respond to an Higher power of all the shit you have done and of all the times you could have made the right choice and made the wrong one instead etc....is actually not that reassuring. I m not saying that we should be good boys only to avoid Hell, dunno about the other traditions but we Catholics usually adhere to the Natural Law Theory, the idea is that doing what is good and avoid what is bad is pivotal for human flourishing both in this life AND in the next, that everything that promotes basic goods like life procreation (not only having kids but taking good care of them and more generally of he future generations) knowledge and sociability is good, what harms or destroys these basic goods= evil. If you are interested there is a good entry on the Stanford encyclopedia

However, atheists are actually able to experience god more because they embrace physical life and physical understanding and they wholeheartedly accept the illusion that we only have one chance at life and that experiences with our family and friends are more important and having a sense of community and humanitarianism because they believe that they will just evaporate into nothingness when they die.

1) so you call "God " the material universe, a la Spinoza? Deus Sive natura ? 2) We embrace physical life pretty well, some of us have even won the Nobel Prize for stuff like Physics, Chemistry and Medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_Nobel_laureates and - or have been and are influential scientists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology . Incidentally, stuff like Universities Hospitals Orphanotrophies etc were founded by the Catholic Church, not to mention j the "Christian themed"art etc, so let s say that we have contributed to the progress of humanity and of society u love so much. But we also wonder what-who caused the physical universe, for instance because as everything that had a beginning has a cause , the universe had a "beginning (Big Bang) hence maybe it has a cause as well. that s a question that physics-science in general cannot address but that metaphysics can. Personally I consider "crude" materialism unsustainable as a philosophical position for a number of reasons it does not address the problem of conscience- mind, the mind brain identity theory is pretty wanting, it cannot even try to address the legitimate question "what caused the world" and borrows some notions like "aleatory events" which are cool from the point of view of physics but kinda fishy philosophically ( ex. if an event is "aleatory" from our perspective does not necessarily mean that is aleatory in se). The list could go on. I m not a Catholic only due to philosophical reasons but my Faith complement my reason and vice versa. Then of course I am a pretty shitty Catholic , WIP and probably I would be even shittier if I had no faith, but i don t believe that atheists qua atheists cannot be moral, I just think that you guys should ask other legitimate questions or at least know more about the reasons behind our beliefs.

 

[swilow]

So either billions of people have shared the same delusion, or there's something that our ancestors have known for ions.

Or billions of people share the same brain chemistry, biology, and innate social structure.

 

[jasperkent]

What do you have to look forward to when you die. Oblivion.

When asked if he feared death, Mark Twain replied "I was dead for billions of years before I was born and it didn't cause me the slightest discomfort."

 

[jasperkent]

In ancient times, we were more connected to god.

In ancient times, we sacrificed animals so that God would pay attention to our prayers.
In ancient times, we stoned people to death for adultery, blasphemy, or the sin of having leprosy.
In ancient times, victory over an enemy meant slaughtering every male (and cutting off their foreskins to prove to God we won) and taking the females for sexual slavery.
In ancient times, we thought our crops failed and people got sick because of witchcraft.
In ancient times, we tortured people to death if their name for God was different from ours.

Sounds like a faulty connection to me.

 

[Dreamflyer]

In ancient times, we sacrificed animals so that God would pay attention to our prayers.
In ancient times, we stoned people to death for adultery, blasphemy, or the sin of having leprosy.
In ancient times, victory over an enemy meant slaughtering every male (and cutting off their foreskins to prove to God we won) and taking the females for sexual slavery.
In ancient times, we thought our crops failed and people got sick because of witchcraft.
In ancient times, we tortured people to death if their name for God was different from ours.

Sounds like a faulty connection to me.

I think that a lot of people are turned off by the concept of God because of all of the horrible things that we, as flawed humans, have done in the past (especially in the name of God).

Just because we're a bunch of screwed up human beings, doesn't mean that there's not a creator. If there is a God, he gave us free will, and what we choose to do with it is our decision, not His.

I understand your point though.

Peace, Love & Faith,
Dreamflyer

 

[Dreamflyer]

Or billions of people share the same brain chemistry, biology, and innate social structure.

Well said.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

In ancient times, we sacrificed animals so that God would pay attention to our prayers.
In ancient times, we stoned people to death for adultery, blasphemy, or the sin of having leprosy.
In ancient times, victory over an enemy meant slaughtering every male (and cutting off their foreskins to prove to God we won) and taking the females for sexual slavery.
In ancient times, we thought our crops failed and people got sick because of witchcraft.
In ancient times, we tortured people to death if their name for God was different from ours.

Sounds like a faulty connection to me.

All of these things are more recent than you might think. Mankind has been afflicted by many atrocities and global destruction that left only the primitive type. Once they evolved into our current civilization, that is when they started to partake in the activities and inclinations that you have listed above.

Mankind is faulty in general but there were many a time when we were awakened and we were closer to utopia than we are now. Our current state is just a result of us falling away from that and choosing to be asleep and disconnected from one another instead. That is why we cannot have unity and peace and that’s why there is perpetual conflict politically and personally, that’s why they can’t recreate the pyramids and that’s why the Bermuda Triangle is a vortex that people can’t decipher.

2000-4000 years ago is a small window of opportunity in the grand scheme of humanity, which has a more complex history than the archaeologists and historians would like to know.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I mean, they’re kind of mutually exclusive in a linguistic sense, just like you can’t be symptomatic and asymptomatic simultaneously, or simultaneously sexual and asexual, etc

 

[skipjames]

I mean, they’re kind of mutually exclusive in a linguistic sense, just like you can’t be symptomatic and asymptomatic simultaneously, or simultaneously sexual and asexual, etc

Indeed, Theism is the belief in a God (or gods, but that s polytheism already )who has created the world and who is interested in the destiny of the humankind and acts in human history (i.e the God of Abrahamic religions). As far as I have understood what the OP calls God is basically the Universe sort of Pantheism ( the Universe is God). As I have said before it reminds me of the God of Spinoza in a way, which IMHO is still a form of philosophical atheism anyway. Sorry philosophy freak here but hey, it s the Philosophy and Spirituality section anyway...

 

[jasperkent]

All of these things are more recent than you might think. Mankind has been afflicted by many atrocities and global destruction that left only the primitive type. Once they evolved into our current civilization, that is when they started to partake in the activities and inclinations that you have listed above.

Mankind is faulty in general but there were many a time when we were awakened and we were closer to utopia than we are now. Our current state is just a result of us falling away from that and choosing to be asleep and disconnected from one another instead. That is why we cannot have unity and peace and that’s why there is perpetual conflict politically and personally, that’s why they can’t recreate the pyramids and that’s why the Bermuda Triangle is a vortex that people can’t decipher.

2000-4000 years ago is a small window of opportunity in the grand scheme of humanity, which has a more complex history than the archaeologists and historians would like to know.

It seems to me that humans have always been exploitative, xenophobic, violent and warlike. It's just that now we have the means to do much more destruction than we did in the past.

The flip side of this is that now we are starting to see our flaws and trying to correct them. For instance, slavery was long considered a fact of life that nobody questioned. The Bible describes laws and codes of conduct for both slaveholders and slaves but never suggests that maybe slavery is not a good thing.

As MLKjr said "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

(edit) PS-- Another example is torture. Humans used to torture each other all the time and for all kinds of reasons, and we came up with countless horrible ways to do so. In recent years we've had debates about how much is too much and whether torture should be used at all. Certainly torture still exists-- but at least we're having conversations about whether it should.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Most people aren’t aware that how old atheistic philosophies are. Since ancient times there are people who view world trough more than pure materialism but but accept that pantheon and such stuff are allegories and opium for the masses or whatever.

Also most (all mainstream) religions offer some kind of cheat code instead insisting on being a good person. Done wrong to the world? Np, just say this and that or take bath here on that day and such things. As when in middle ages it was common to pay to get your sins forgiven.

It’s funny how most ex-junkies either get into obsession with healthy lifestyle to the extent it’s unhealthy or into religion to the extent it’s not funny. Connection with being sport junkie and substance junkie is established in more than one scientific paper. To connect substance junkies with religion freaks doesn’t require much investigation but just knowing there’s 12 steps and such.

 

[skipjames]

Also most (all mainstream) religions offer some kind of cheat code instead insisting on being a good person. Done wrong to the world? Np, just say this and that or take bath here on that day and such things

I see your point but it really depends, Confession for instance is not a cheat code, it s about asking forgiveness for the shit you ve been up to AND doing your best to avoid doing the same shit in the future. For instance you can t get absolution if you are in active addiction and not doing anything to at least address your situation (that s why I have "self excommunicated" myself from the Sacraments in the last months as it would really be both ridiculous and blasphemous going to Confession and texting my dealer between an Holy Mary and another which is probably what I would do)

It’s funny how most ex-junkies either get into obsession with healthy lifestyle to the extent it’s unhealthy or into religion to the extent it’s not funny. Connection with being sport junkie and substance junkie is established in more than one scientific paper. To connect substance junkies with religion freaks doesn’t require much investigation but just knowing there’s 12 steps and such.

Indeed. Not only religion can be abused like anything else (sex drugs food games etc) in very unhealthy and dangerous ways , it s probably one of the worst addictions ever. Religious (even in the non religious militant atheist version) or political junkies (like the militant left wing or right wing "true believers") can be the worst irrational dangerous addicts you ll ever met ....not sure about putting all 12 steppers in this group though, it s not for me but there s some great people there

 

[swilow]

It’s funny how most ex-junkies either get into obsession with healthy lifestyle to the extent it’s unhealthy or into religion to the extent it’s not funny. Connection with being sport junkie and substance junkie is established in more than one scientific paper. To connect substance junkies with religion freaks doesn’t require much investigation but just knowing there’s 12 steps and such.

Very true. I basically quit drugs about 3 years ago and took up weightlifting instead. It genuinely seems to scratch the same itch. Time-consuming, generates a flow state, transports me from the daily grind and of course the endorphin release. If only I'd discovered that 20 years ago!

 

[nepalnt21]

A fool says in His heart there is no God

not sure if you were responding to me, but i personally would never say that. just like i would never say unicorns don't exist. with that said, i see no reason to dwell on the potential existence of either, until some evidence for them presents itself.

For creation and its visible qualities are exposed to everyone so no one has an excuse.

i remain unconvinced that the universe was "created", and find it very strange (and circular) when people try and say our universe is evidence that our universe was created.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

It seems to me that humans have always been exploitative, xenophobic, violent and warlike. It's just that now we have the means to do much more destruction than we did in the past.

The flip side of this is that now we are starting to see our flaws and trying to correct them. For instance, slavery was long considered a fact of life that nobody questioned. The Bible describes laws and codes of conduct for both slaveholders and slaves but never suggests that maybe slavery is not a good thing.

As MLKjr said "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

(edit) PS-- Another example is torture. Humans used to torture each other all the time and for all kinds of reasons, and we came up with countless horrible ways to do so. In recent years we've had debates about how much is too much and whether torture should be used at all. Certainly torture still exists-- but at least we're having conversations about whether it should.

Yes but who do you think taught them to be slaveholders? Do you think humanity is innately destined to afflict atrocities unto itself? That is not our true nature. We were taught those behaviors by those who came before us. And it is a program that has perpetuated up until this current timeline that we are in right now.

It’s the source of all the social discord and the school shootings.