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  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Are you created in God’s image?

Give it up, all his posts are full of fervent, perverse attacks on Jesus and the Christian God, and there is no personal belief you can come up with that will satisfy him.

Besides, his prime motivation is to attack what he believes to be the "wrong" kind of Christianity, and hardly sets aside any time to share what he sees as right. .

Are you that stupid dear child.

When you point to something as wrong, are you not also indicating that it's opposite is right?

Yes you are.

A poster with good manners would now apologise for her stupid remarks and then thank me for teaching her something.

Regards
DL
 
Whatever, your posts are meaningless and of no merit to anyone, and I can't be bothered with them anymore.
 
Yes I am the world has just fucked me up if u don't believe this look at any little baby!!
 
I just feel that babies are innocent although the Bible does say we are born into sin something to think about
 
I just feel that babies are innocent although the Bible does say we are born into sin something to think about

Not much to think about unless ones is foolish enough to think that the bible is correct in anything.
Myths are not right or wrong. They are just myths with messages and people get different messages.

Some read the O.T. and love that God.
Others will read the same thing and hate the prick shown to be God in the bible.

Regards
DL
 
Wow I feel sorry for u next you'll be trying to tell me a man named Jesus Christ was never crucified on a cross
 
^ lol

Many men called Jesus were crucified on crosses.. some would have even been self proclaimed messiahs.. common name, common theme and common practises throughout Judea at that time.. but the Jesus written about in the new testament didn't exist..

Read here:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/703413-The-New-Testament-What-I-Now-Know

And as for the story you refer to.. consider this:

According to the Gospels, Jesus was crucified on either the first day of Passover or the day before Passover, depending on the Gospel. The synoptics have Jesus crucified on the day of Passover, while John puts the crucifixion on the day before. This itself defies reason, as Passover is considered one of the holiest of Jewish holidays, and this holiday not only took considerable preparation, but was a time of forgiveness and celebration. It is also when the Jews made public sacrifices to their god. That the Jewish authorities would have held a public execution of someone at this time is itself pretty well beyond belief.

Not only this, but the arrest and (very short) trial of Jesus supposedly took place at night on Passover eve. That the Sanhedrin (the Jewish body of judges) would have assembled in the middle of the night on Passover eve to pass a quick judgment on anyone defies reason, but when you add to this the fact that in the story the members of the council slap Jesus and spit in his face the implausible borders on the impossible. To say that the Sanhedrin slapped and spit on someone in a trial is like saying that the justices of the Supreme Court would slap and spit on defendants. Yes, these were ancient times, but the institutions being talked about here were formal institutions that didn't just convene on a whim and they didn't act like savages, much less on Passover eve.

Here are rules of the Sanhedrin that were in place at the time according to the Jewish Mishnah:

1) No criminal session was allowed at night.
2) No Sanhedrin trial could be heard at any place other than the Temple precincts.
3) No capital crime could be tried in a one-day sitting.
4) No criminal trial could be held on the eve of a Sabbath or festival.
5) No one could be found guilty on his own confession.
6) No blasphemy charge could be sustained unless the accused pronounced the name of God in front of witnesses.
7) The Sanhedrin were allowed to execute people on their own and did not need the Romans to do so for them.
The trial of Jesus according to the Gospels violated all of these rules.

More information on the laws of the Sanhedrin can be found here: The Sanhedrin

So, the story of Jesus' arrest and execution seems quite implausible at the outset, but when one considers the symbolism of the story it becomes apparent that the basis for this story is theological, not historical.

On Passover, at the time that this story is supposedly taking place, the Jews provided many sacrifices, most of them as burnt offerings, meaning animals that were slaughtered and then burned on a fire. In addition to these sacrifices there was a special sacrifice of a lamb which was not burnt, but was instead eaten.

Josephus tells us of this tradition:

The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the Passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread; on every one of which days two bulls are killed, and one ram, and seven lambs. Now these lambs are entirely burnt, besides the ewe lamb which is added to all the rest, for sins; for it is intended as a feast for the priest on every one of those days.
- Antiquity of the Jews, Josephus

This special lamb is a sacrifice specifically for the forgiveness of sins.

The crucifixion of Jesus on Passover is a metaphor for this sacrificial lamb. This symbolism was, perhaps, one of the earliest and most developed parts of Jesus Christ theology among the early followers of the Christ mythos among the Jews. The idea of Jesus Christ as a sacrificial lamb is first recorded in the letters of Paul from 1 Corinthians 5, where Paul associates immoral people with yeast and urges his correspondents to expel an immoral man from among their group:

1 Corinthians 5:
7 Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

1 Corinthians was probably written some time between 50 and 60 CE. We will specifically address the works of Paul later, but here we can see that the symbolism of Christ as a sacrificial Passover lamb was a part of the Christian tradition prior to the writing of the Gospels.

The Book of Hebrews describes Christ as an ultimate sacrifice that makes the need for all other sacrifices obsolete:

Hebrews 9:
When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep." In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

...

Hebrews 10:
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Book of Hebrews was probably written before the Gospel of Mark was written, but this is not certain. The Book of Hebrews, like the letters of Paul, gives no details about a life of Jesus, it only talks about Christ in a metaphorical sense. The author of Mark may or may not have been aware of the Book of Hebrews, but one can presume that the author of Mark was aware of the same symbolism that is discussed above, because this symbolism is a part of his story as well in a more subtle way.

None of the three synoptic Gospels makes an explicit reference to Christ as the Passover lamb, but the Gospel called John does. The writer of John refers to Jesus as the "Lamb of God" and gives the following narrative of his crucifixion and death:

John 19:
28 After this, when Jesus knew that all was now finished, he said (in order to fulfill the scripture), ‘I am thirsty.’ 29 A jar full of sour wine was standing there. So they put a sponge full of the wine on a branch of hyssop and held it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus had received the wine, he said, ‘It is finished.’ Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

31 Since it was the day of Preparation, the Jews did not want the bodies left on the cross during the sabbath, especially because that sabbath was a day of great solemnity. So they asked Pilate to have the legs of the crucified men broken and the bodies removed. 32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who had been crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once blood and water came out. 35 (He who saw this has testified so that you also may believe. His testimony is true, and there is one who knows that he tells the truth.) 36 These things occurred so that the scripture might be fulfilled, ‘None of his bones shall be broken.’ 37 And again another passage of scripture says, ‘They will look on the one whom they have pierced.’

They keys here are the references to the breaking of bones and the hyssop. The breaking of bones refers to Numbers 9, as well as Psalm 34. Numbers 9 states:

Numbers 9:
11 In the second month on the fourteenth day, at twilight, they shall keep it; they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 12 They shall leave none of it until morning, nor break a bone of it; according to all the statute for the passover they shall keep it.

John is specifically drawing on this passage to craft his story, thus John has Jesus crucified on the 14th day of Nisan, whereas he is crucified on the 15th day of Nisan in the synoptics. The difference in days here is because the lambs are sacrificed on the 14th day of Nisan. The point here, though, is that John is explicitly drawing a reference to Jesus as the Passover lamb. John makes-up the scenario here of having the other individuals' legs broken (and having Jesus stabbed in the side) in order to make references to the scriptures.

The hyssop refers to Exodus 12, which states:

Exodus 12:
21 Then Moses called all the elders of Israel and said to them, ‘Go, select lambs for your families, and slaughter the passover lamb. 22 Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it in the blood that is in the basin, and touch the lintel and the two doorposts with the blood in the basin.

Though the synoptics do not directly refer to Jesus as the Passover lamb, the symbolism is still very clear.

There are other symbolic elements to the crucifixion story as well. For example, the timing of events in Mark is in triplets. In the Gospel of Mark the crucifixion starts on the "3rd hour" (which is 9:00 a.m. our time), darkness covers the land on the "6th hour" (12 noon our time), and Jesus dies on the "9th hour" (3 p.m. our time).

The crucifixion scenes in the Gospels are so utterly symbolic and based on the scriptures that as history they are unbelievable. The events of the arrest, trial, and execution defy our knowledge of Jewish law of the time. On the eve of, or during, Passover these are things that they simply did not do. There is also considerable doubt that the Jews would have had any reason to go to the Romans to carry out the execution, or that they would have had him crucified, since the law required death by stoning for blasphemy, which is what Jesus was supposedly charged with. However, "Christ crucified" was already a theme in the teachings of Paul. Crucifixion was a means of execution that was performed by authorities, while stoning was performed by the public. In the apocalyptic and messianic stories of the time where leading figures were executed, the leading figures were executed by authorities, typical heavenly authorities.

And please do read it.. don't brush over it in a tl;dr fashion..
 
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From the Essences Gospels:

"God giveth the grains and the fruits of the earth for food: and for righteous man truly there is no other lawful sustenance for the body."

Obscene how many who wish to consider themselves spiritual or enlightened overlook this subject.
 
Wow I feel sorry for u next you'll be trying to tell me a man named Jesus Christ was never crucified on a cross

There likely was but that man had nothing to do with what Rome made out of Christianity.

Bur if you want to swallow a lot of woo and embrace barbaric human sacrifice as moral, go ahead.

Havinganother innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that youmight escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Jesus saidto pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the linethat someone else should pay your dues. Quite manly and moral that. Not.

Do youreally think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your justreward?

Deuteronomy24:16(ESV) “Fathers shall not be put todeath because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because oftheir fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel18:20(ESV) The soul who sins shalldie. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the fathersuffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall beupon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Thedeclaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon thechildren is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, TheAge of Reason]

As aboveso below.

If you hadGod's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against thewisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhapslike being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That iswhat a good God would do.

Regards
DL
 
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