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Are visions real?

farmaz

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I had a life changing experience last night with PCP & Cannabis. I dont want to go into detail about what happaned but the most powerfull experience in my life, more powerfull than salvia, K-hole's or any other chemical in any dose ever taken in my life.

I just wanted to know if other people believe what they see under chemicals are real?

I dont question what I have seen under Liberty caps are real as I have seen the Geometric shapes etc drawn on cave walls in France & other places all over the world from 1,000's of years ago.

Does anyone think that what you see under pcp & ketamine is real or just the result of your brain going crazy & are not wirth really paying attention too?

If what I saw & felt last night is a real line of reality I know "God" in whatever form it comes as is real, universal love is the answer to life & we all should not worry about death as we will all come around again when we die.
 
Depends how you define 'real'. Most likely everything you see and feel is being generated from inside your own brain though, but that doesn't mean you you should disregard it if it leads you to a more enlightened or positive outlook on life.

Gonna chuck this over to Philosophy and Spirituality, better suited there than BDD

BDD -> PnS
 
Unfortunately it is not real. You will learn this when this feeling begins to fade. If it were real it would be with you for the rest of your life.

This is a big problem i realized with drugs: what they generate is fake, false emotions. Sure it feels real, and is real in a sense that it WAS a true experience you had, a true feeling (particularly at that moment). So it was real in that sense that it happened and made you feel that way. But it is not real because it fades, usually as fast as the drugs do.

A REAL life changing event (spiritual or otherwise), changes you for LIFE, not for a few days.

This is why people spend their entire lives meditating and pondering the existence of a god (Buddhist monks come to mind as a good example): they have to WORK to get that realization and understanding of god and the universe and their place in it. It has taken me months and months and months to develop even a fraction of their spirituality and acceptance with my place in the universe.

This WAS one reason i did drugs: it gave me these feelings. But those feelings faded when the drugs would, making them "false" in my mind.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Yes it IS possible for this to have been real, IF IT STAYS WITH YOU! But I think youll find it fades, which is sad but from my experiences true.. I once thought i had figured out the answer to god and the universe on shrooms. And I continued to feel that way for awhile, but eventually it disappeared. True religious and spiritual experiences are with you for life, and impact your soul in my opinion.

I do hope it stays with you, but as I said: you'll find out in a few days whether or not it was "real" in the sense that it truly changed your life.
 
Unfortunately it is not real. You will learn this when this feeling begins to fade. If it were real it would be with you for the rest of your life.

Unless you get some permanent psychological or perception disorder =D
 
"Our sight is impeded by intervening bodies and shadows"
- Nikola Tesla

Dissociative drugs seem like they would be good at causing the mind to allow more then what it is usually comfortable with perceiving.

BUT

PCP is a powerful hallucinogenic too.
;)

This is where rationality gets seriously tested, the more you accept now, the more there is to reject later. Pride can take a serious searing in this situation, and is how most magick works and the human quirk many occultists use sustain their members belief.

More then the belief in what might of been achieved or contacted, what becomes the focus of defense is personal pride. To defend ones pride, which is a illusion, in this situation more delusion is needed.

"A single ray of light from a distant star falling upon the eye of a tyrant in bygone times may have altered the course of his life, may have changed the destiny of nations, may have transformed the surface of the globe, so intricate, so inconceivably complex are the processes in nature."
-Nikola Tesla
 
^ This.

As Morpheus asked Neo in their first conversation, "What is real?"

From a utilitarian conception of truth, the test of how "real" the experience was will be how lasting and applicable the lessons you brought back from it serve you in your everyday sober life, especially as you gain some distance from it.
 
“To be enlightened is to be aware, always, of total reality in its immanent otherness - to be aware of it and yet remain in a condition to survive as an animal. Our goal is to discover that we have always been where we ought to be. Unhappily we make the task exceedingly difficult for ourselves.”
― Aldous Huxley, The Doors of Perception
 
It's as real as the world appear to us. Doesn't mean it's all in focus or isn't jumbled up signals though, that must be taken into consideration. I wouldn't be taking visions from substances as any bastion of truth though.. as DoomMood said it may feel that way but once you come down it's gone. The real deal does not fade over time, it remains. Unfortunately there are no shortcuts, if you want the real deal you have to do the hard graft and change who you are.. and no substance can do that for you.

You should also consider the possibility that what you see isn't being generated by you either. McKenna said the mushroom spoke to him, other's talk about "plant spirits".. what you see may be projected into your mind from an entity you can't see.

It's all very confusing. No one knows for sure what's happening. My advice would be to treat it as you would treat any dream.. marvel at it for the few seconds after you wake and then go about your business as usual.
 
Unfortunately it is not real. You will learn this when this feeling begins to fade. If it were real it would be with you for the rest of your life.

What? farmaz was asking if the visions one sees on drugs are "real", as opposed to just some form of insanity that doesn't deserve a second thought. Personally I think it completely depends on one's definition of "real", but I don't agree that if something is "real" it will stay forever. That doesn't make sense to me. All sorts of things fade. For example I have had things happen to me that I don't remember at all, but there is concrete evidence and witnesses, does that mean it wasn't real?

It also sounds like you interpreted "real" to mean a permanently and dramatically life-changing event? I don't agree that "real"=life-changing, but even if you take it that way, I don't think you can know whether the OP's experience was/will in fact be life-changing. I have had many positive life-changing experiences with drugs, particularly psychedelics. I think it totally depends on how you use them, whether you pay attention to the insights, whether you are open to change, and whether you put in the effort (you can't just expect the drug to magically do all the work if you don't actually try to change or to remember). But even when there doesn't seem to be a dramatic and immediate change to one's life, that doesn't mean it hasn't affected us, things can change us in ways we don't readily perceive. Everything that we ever experience affects/changes us in some way.

It's as real as the world appear to us. Doesn't mean it's all in focus or isn't jumbled up signals though, that must be taken into consideration. I wouldn't be taking visions from substances as any bastion of truth though.. as DoomMood said it may feel that way but once you come down it's gone. The real deal does not fade over time, it remains. Unfortunately there are no shortcuts, if you want the real deal you have to do the hard graft and change who you are.. and no substance can do that for you.

You should also consider the possibility that what you see isn't being generated by you either. McKenna said the mushroom spoke to him, other's talk about "plant spirits".. what you see may be projected into your mind from an entity you can't see.

^Totally agree with this.

farmaz:

"Reality" is simply how our brain interprets things, it's all perception. So in that sense experiences and visions on drugs are just as "real" as anything else. But we don't know what it means or how much of it is coming from our brains and how much is caused by something external. So you have to take what is meaningful to you and not worry to much about where exactly it came from I guess. Certain drugs can give us great insights, just think about how many people have had great realizations while on psychedelics, like several Nobel prize winners who made their discoveries or invented their inventions while on LSD, famous artists/musicians who were greatly influenced by their drug experiences, many people who changed their lives for the better (found their calling, found happiness, quit addictive drugs, found spirituality, whatever), and so on. So I wouldn't say, as SS said, that if you have a profound experience you should just think of it as a pretty picture and then forget about it. Just maybe consider whether it had meaning to you and how you might want it to influence things for you. If it was positive then try to remember it and incorporate it into your life.

You might also want to check out some books on this topic, there are many excellent books on this very question and what it all might mean or come from. Obviously nobody has it completely figured out (or if they do they don't have much to prove their theory using Western science in a way everyone is going to accept/believe), but it makes for interesting and thought-provoking reading.

ETA: I also agree that certain drug experiences can totally change how we feel about life and death. That has definitely happened for me. But, one point DooMMood made that I do agree with is that those feelings can often fade - but to me this does not mean it wasn't real, or the insights weren't true, just that it can be easy to forget that feeling when faced with "normal" everyday life and usual consciousness. Drugs may be a fast track to enlightenment compared to say, meditating for 10 years or something, but with that comes a price of it being more difficult and taking practice to be able to retain what you learned.

(I love that you put Interzone as your location btw :)).
 
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they are real in that they reflect the state of your inner world, as it responds with a compromised ability to deal with external stimuli. it's the same world out there, the difference is within you. that is where you learn new truths.
 
well it's been a while now & the lessons are still with me.

alot of people made good points which I have taken note of, but a special thanks to swimmingdancer is needed.

thanks to all that posted as that was 1 serious trip & i felt totally blown away after it. When I can do it justice in words I will write it up for the trip report section.

thanks
 
This is a big problem i realized with drugs: what they generate is fake, false emotions. Sure it feels real, and is real in a sense that it WAS a true experience you had, a true feeling (particularly at that moment). So it was real in that sense that it happened and made you feel that way. But it is not real because it fades, usually as fast as the drugs do.

A REAL life changing event (spiritual or otherwise), changes you for LIFE, not for a few days.

I must say I have also "seen the truth" on mushrooms. At that time, I knew I understood *everything*. The next days were all about integrating and yes the "knowledge" fades but I have to say it still has an active impact on my life, now 3years later. I think it is because I realised we were not supposed to know the Truth, before we die. I saw and knew everything, for a short amount of time. I don't need to know the Truth anymore, the experience I had will stay with me for all my life. The *feeling* that I was allowed to know, albeit for just a short time, is what's still influencing me today.
 
Yeah I think it helps you to connect with a different perception of reality which you can get into without drugs, so yes it's real.
 
I think whatever happens can be real (incl. dreams, hallucinations, etc.). The question "is my vision real?" or "do my thoughts correspond to an outside world?" presupposes an ontology of the subject/object where a subjective experience has to match with an objective world. This ontology is only a presupposition of western thought (in particular: modernity, i.e. Descartes, but actually it goes back to Plato's cave where a distinction is made between appearance/being that needs to adequate).

This is not to say that some experiences can be "untrue." I think that "religious experiences" (sober, or psychedelic) are true in so far they influence a person's life "truthfully." If the experience fades away after a few days, and is not incorporated in the person's self-becoming, the experience is "untrue" (non-being). This is just alternative way of phrasing the classical distinction between being/appearance. Being is what "remains stable" (truth), appearance is what is "unstable" and fades away (untruth).

Folllowing my frame, I find it a rather superfluous approach to a posteriori justify the validity of religious/psychedelic experiences by turning to a material world (i.e. neurotheology) or taking a leap into the transcendent world (i.e. claiming Divine Grace). They both follow the same scheme where a subjective experience becomes true by virtue of an adequatio with an objective reference. For me a "true" experience is one that is integrated in a person's self-becoming.
 
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Infracted!

1251039181805.jpg
 
Hey there - yes visions are very real...

I have them myself - they are a gift. They are either a different plane of existence, like lucid dreaming on the astral realm, or they are on this physical plane we experience everyday while we are awake - just in a different time zone.

Like, the way I see it - there's this piece of string which represents time and it has coloured markers on it which represent us, and then events which could potetially happen. Probably more like a bunch of spaghetti, considering there are more than one potential futures. You are blessed if you can see potential futures, but you must also remember that it is still illusion as it is not here & now - so anything negative you can see might not happen if you make the right path, and anything positive you can feel attached to can also not happen if you fuck up.

What kind of visions are you having? EDIT: ahh I have just seen yours are drug induced - Still, I believe with drugs like psilocybin we can see the threads holding us altogether - like an ethereal network of energy. I saw it on mushrooms on two occasions - it was amazing - blue fading to black with this neon white edged-pink network of electrical fire connecting every living thing , even every single thing that is tangible.


I have also seen these sacred geometries spinning round and round, morphing and pulsating on LSD and DMT before - breakthrough doses...I just hypothesized they are exaggerated regurgitated patterns from my subconscious - stuff I'd seen over the years, that just got let loose in front of my eyes for a few minutes.

What's funny is one of my DMT experiences - someone I have never met, who produces visionary art (I will link tomorrow-fucking great stuff), I've been corresponding with over the web for a few years - a newish representation of something she's seen was pretty much exactly what I saw. There must be something objective about some of these things too, if other people are experiencing the same visions haha.
 
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