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Lysergamides Are there any lysergamides that act as enactogens?

SotPoker1012

SotPoker1012

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Most empathogens fall into the phenylethylamine category, but there are a few tryptamines such as aMT that have empathogenic dominant properties.

As lysergamides have both a phenylethylamine and a tryptamine in their structure, I've always wondered if there was an LSD analogue or other lysergamide with primarily empathogenic or stimulant properties.

I've looked into (and tried) a couple of analogues but they were all nearly identical to LSD aside from intensity and potency.

Has anyone come across an example of empathogenic lysergamides?
 
Shinji Ikari said:
I would have just said LSD tbh, but I'm not an especially visual tripper. I know we don't call them empathogens, but I find LSD (and shrooms, though I don't like them as much) facilitate and encourage genuine empathy just as well if not more effectively than MDMA.

Ymmv I guess.
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Upon reading your reply, I'm 90% sure I've made this post before. Sorry lol
Pothead brain
 
As I understand it, LSD and it's homologues bind to a specific receptor.

You mentioned AMT and it's possible to modify that drug so it is an entactogen at any (reasonable) dose. AET was sold as MDA which would suggest it's largely an entactogen but in the 1960s Upjohn obtained patents on a few related compounds that were described as antidepressants but I suggest may be considered entactogens.

Don't forget AMT is chiral and only the (S) enantiomer is a 5HT2a ligand. So one could resolve AMT and use only the entactogen isomer. Addition of a 7 methyl group dramatically increases monoamine reuptake inhibition so that may also provide for a pure entactogen at reasonable doses - but be careful as MAOI activity has been mentioned.
 
LSD is as empathogenic as mescaline or 2C-B are for me, many psychedelics kind of encapsulate empathogenic qualities (or sometimes dissociative qualities) imo. It's sort of like a big three pointed spectrum across which they all land on some blurry area, without solid lines dividing category from category, if that makes sense. Sorry if this is incoherent, little fried rn from a series of long nights with 5-MeO-DiPT and MDMB-4en-PINACA.
 
That's a good point - entctogens are generally viewed as compounds whose chief mechanism of action is to money around with extracellular monoamine levels. But LSD also produces those entactogenic effects. Is it possible that the 5HT2a receptor is 'upstream' of those monoamines?
 
4DQSAR said:
That's a good point - entctogens are generally viewed as compounds whose chief mechanism of action is to money around with extracellular monoamine levels. But LSD also produces those entactogenic effects. Is it possible that the 5HT2a receptor is 'upstream' of those monoamines?
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It very well may be. The biochemical circuits that involve neurotransmitters, hormones, cytokines, all of the other things that bind to proteins and/or become enzymatically converted into something bioactive are unbelievably complicated and we've only had the technology to begin truly analyzing this over the last few decades, and science moves slowly. It's a lot like how tons of microorganisms have been taxonomically reclassified as a result of recent advances in genetic sequencing.
 
One of my very minor claims to fame is that I discussed the possibility of adding a 7-methyl to the indole system of the LSD with Dr. David Nichols to test IF LSD was, on the quiet, influencing monoamine levels on the VERY flimsy basis that with the tryptamines such a substitution has a dramatic effect on such action.

Wisely he asked one VERY simple question, to whit 'and how would one make it?' and THEN I realized what a huge task it would be with no certaintly of enlightening anyone's understanding. Even with tenure, such a project would require a budget.
 
There is a way of taking LSD that can take you through "Ismenes Wormhole" (which is like my arsehole but nicer) seems to really enhance the physical high and has me rolling around in the duvet like on (real) E.

Split your acid dose in 2 or 3 and take each dose 20 minutes apart. That's it. Sometimes works sometimes not so much.
 
dopamimetic said:
I heard that 5-MeO-MiPT had empathogenic properties. When I've tried it I was on venlafaxine which blocked much of its effects unfortunately so I am not sure.
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RIP


I've always wanted to try it, but I got scammed from an online vendor and haven't tried to get any again. Nobody local has anything but the usual suspects. LSD, shrooms, mdma, mescaline if I'm lucky. The most exotic thing I've seen locally was 2cb.

Damn it, next time I get paid I'm going to try to order some again and see if I have any luck.
 
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4DQSAR said:
One of my very minor claims to fame is that I discussed the possibility of adding a 7-methyl to the indole system of the LSD with Dr. David Nichols to test IF LSD was, on the quiet, influencing monoamine levels on the VERY flimsy basis that with the tryptamines such a substitution has a dramatic effect on such action.

Wisely he asked one VERY simple question, to whit 'and how would one make it?' and THEN I realized what a huge task it would be with no certaintly of enlightening anyone's understanding. Even with tenure, such a project would require a budget.
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I bet Nichols asked you that rhetorically, as I'm pretty sure that you can just Fischer synth Indole with all sorts of wacky substitutions, it's considered one of the simplest ways to whip up Indole.

It would require a budget, possibly, IRL I know people who both have and could made 7-Alkyl substituted indoles.
 
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