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Are THCa Carts Federally Legal?

reapergrowerx10

Greenlighter
Joined
May 5, 2023
Messages
2
I recently came across an article about THCA carts and their legal status, and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. According to this post, THCA carts are considered federally illegal, but I've noticed them being sold at some stores near me, which left me quite puzzled.

I was wondering if any of you could shed some light on this topic. Is this information accurate? How are these stores able to sell THCA carts if they're federally illegal? Are there any loopholes or state-specific regulations that allow them to do so?

I'd appreciate any input you might have on this subject, as I'm trying to stay informed and make responsible choices when it comes to cannabis consumption.
 
The DEA has stated that all of these semi synthetic cannabinoids derived from hemp are federally illegal, however that was a few years ago and they have chosen not to enforce it.

I'm not exactly sure as to the technicalities. There are both state and federal loopholes.

I live in a state where weed is illegal and all the stores now sell straight up weed edibles with regular d9 THC, because they are technically under 0.3% by weight.

This 0.3% law has been around for a long time, but only recently did companies start abusing this loophole. I'm not sure why.
 
^Thank you for the .3% by weight legal citation. I can't believe in all my years I never heard this one. I wonder how far you could push that, right into a bar? Haha a highschool prom? A police station? Legal is legal right? Hi I enjoy TF out of loopholes.

I live in a state weed is legal and for some reason nobody carries THC-A crystals, I believe it is some kind of state level law that would probably not be enforced. I have gotten thc "diamonds" which I believed to be THC-A and were 88% THC-A I believe but only from one ma and pop type dispensary (rare) and only once. So I am interested as well. I wish I could amazon my weed lol. (still fuck Bezos tho) lol.

what state you live in OP, or if that is too much, is it a 'weed legal' state.
 
THCA is the only legal cannabinoid I mess with currently other than the (less than .3%) ∆9 edibles.

Yes, they are pushing the limits with both of those things. I'm in a non-legal state and a local store just started selling bud supposedly bred to only have THCA. It's just as good as middle shelf dispensary bud to me. Same high.

The biggest thing which I see as the "feet of clay" of the THCA bud is that all bud is mostly THCA at first which converts to THC upon heat or drying. In other words, it's likely that bud which starts as all THCA will slowly convert a percentage of that to THC over time, thus making it illegal.

When I first saw this THCA bud for sale I did some internet surfing, of course.
Apparently it has been sold online for a few years and the people who have been discussing it have encouraged keeping it under the radar.

The cat's out of the bag now, and I do look for the DEA to eventually crack down on these things.
They just had a communication reminding people that ∆9 THCO is illegal and my online supplier stopped carrying it.
Local stores still carry it, but I'm pretty sure they are just moving existing stock.

********************

An interesting aside... I ordered a few grams of THCA isolate while I still could and I have been putting it on some regs which I purchased rather cheaply.
It makes the regs work well, but I did find that the THCA bud was better and tasted "fresher".
A couple days ago I tried some oral CBD and other minor cannabinoids ahead of the isolate.
By having the minor cannabinoids pre-loaded, I suddenly got off quite a bit better from the isolate.
It is repeatable and even just CBD pre-loading makes a big difference. That entourage effect is quite real.
I'm going to have to make some "CBD-plus" tincture and use that.
 
THCa as far as the data goes is not active as a cannabinoid and doesn't metabolize to THC, sadly.

But it's very easy to convert it to THC by either thermal means (like, say, introducing an open flame to the plant matter, aided by a draft of some sort) or by treatment with various acid catalysts after isolation.
 
The DEA has stated that all of these semi synthetic cannabinoids derived from hemp are federally illegal, however that was a few years ago and they have chosen not to enforce it.

I'm not exactly sure as to the technicalities. There are both state and federal loopholes.

I live in a state where weed is illegal and all the stores now sell straight up weed edibles with regular d9 THC, because they are technically under 0.3% by weight.

This 0.3% law has been around for a long time, but only recently did companies start abusing this loophole. I'm not sure why.
movement toward legalization, baby steps. Why waste money and resources when we just got out of covid etc, the government is hurting as bad as the people who live in the country economically, my take is the US government has bigger fish to fry then kids frying there brains with thc instead of studying and being productive members of our society lol
 
THCa as far as the data goes is not active as a cannabinoid and doesn't metabolize to THC, sadly.

But it's very easy to convert it to THC by either thermal means (like, say, introducing an open flame to the plant matter, aided by a draft of some sort) or by treatment with various acid catalysts after isolation.

So what you are saying is it is not edible as heat is needed to convert it to thc. Do you have any idea why a "weed legal" (rec) state would not carry THC-A crystals. Even if it is just a novelty, as you may have read in the meth thread .... Im just rounding out my experiences portfolio. (still no DMT, Mescaline, meth, not sure if i have had thc-a or not) and synthetic cannabinoids are not on the list of things to experience.
 
So what you are saying is it is not edible as heat is needed to convert it to thc. Do you have any idea why a "weed legal" (rec) state would not carry THC-A crystals. Even if it is just a novelty, as you may have read in the meth thread .... Im just rounding out my experiences portfolio. (still no DMT, Mescaline, meth, not sure if i have had thc-a or not) and synthetic cannabinoids are not on the list of things to experience.
Its extremely dangerous to make and there have been a lot of explosions because of making the crystals
 
"Extremely dangerous" if done by amateurs or without a regard to safety. However, it's quite possible to work with flammable solvents in such a fashion that the risk of fire or explosion is greatly reduced (sealed-off systems, fume hoods, careful temperature control, general fire safety like no sparks or open flames, etc). Many labs do solvent extractions on a regular basis, and even amateur extractions can be done safely.
Also, solvent removal in general can be as easy as melting your extract and holding it at a certain temperature. The gold standard is to heat and melt it in a vacuum oven, at low pressure, to ensure any solvent turns to gas and is pumped away - and residual solvent usually has a noticeable smell as well as makes any extract much less solid.
THC extraction can also be done with supercritical CO2 (used to decaffeinate coffee beans), which does have its own risks (high pressure gas/liquid handling, and CO2 is in theory toxic if a massive leak occurs) and costs more, but also extracts cannabinoids well, evaporates instantly, and leaves no solvent residue. It can even be recycled.

Anyway, the reasons THC-A crystals are rarely if ever seen:
1. Most commercial/mature marijuana contains at least some THC in addition to THC-A. But the "desired product" is usually THC so growers prefer selling those strains.
2. THC-A is not super stable. Even at room temperature in the dark, some THC-A will decarboxylate, gradually. And as stated before, acid exposure, heat, and very likely base exposure and UV light all convert it to THC and CO2. Thankfully there are no enzymes that decarboxylate it.
3. Separating THC-A from the other cannabinoids is not something that can be done super easily.
Normally if you take freshly dried buds and extract them with butane/hexane/heptane/naphtha, you will get an extract that can contain proportionally quite large amounts of THC-A (and if the plant produces CBD, CBD-A will also be present). Ordinarily this is hard to detect, typical bioassay techniques like "dabbing" or using a vape pen will, through heating, convert all THC-A to THC. And analysis on a GC by most methods will also decarboxylate the sample (as the sample on a GC first passes through an injection port heated to >300C or so), meaning analysis should ideally be done on a HPLC, but can be done on GC too, however derivitization is needed - reacting the sample with e.g. BSTFA, a quick and easy reaction done by adding a premeasured amount of solution to a small sample, which masks the phenolic OH and the carboxylic acid COOH with protective trimethylsilyl groups [Image: THC-A-2TMS - aka THC-A with a trimethylsilyl on the OH and COOH - structure and mass spectral 'fingerprint'], allowing them to survive a GC after all.

The two ways I have seen to seperate THC-A that would work are, adding an amine like triethylamine (or many others, even quinine(?)) to a solvent solution of cannabinoid extract, which precipitates crystals of triethylammonium tetrahydrocannabinol-carboxylate that can be carefully neutralized to isolate pure THC-A [ref], or alternatively flash chromatography of the crude cannabinoid extract (which as a bonus can seperate individual cannabinoids as well, i.e. THC from CBD from CBN). However solvents are needed, and also some means of identifying the product.
Another method that might work but I am less confident about is simply dissolving the crude cannabis extract in e.g. pentane or hexane and cooling it to very low temperatures for a long time, in the hope that THC-A is less soluble and will precipitate (but also, other things could precip too like waxes/fats).
Another thing that has not been considered is that every cannabinoid the Cannabis plant makes is actually produced as the carboxylic acid. So, there is also such a thing as CBD-A, CBG-A, and so on. Separating THC-A and CBD-A (or others) could only be done by chromatography unfortunately, and the easiest way to check if you have a mixture is by doing thin layer chromatography (unfortunately.)
Like its THC analog, CBD-A is much less bioactive, does not metabolize to CBD, converts to CBD when heated (slower and less completely than THCA->THC [ref]), but converts instead to THC if exposed to acid (decarboxylation and the acidic resorcinol OH attacking the outlying isopropenyl group of the terpene "half" of CBD, forming an ether ring, i.e. THC is formed. It can happen either like CBD-A -> THC-A -> THC or CBD-A -> CBD -> THC.

The main reason this is not done is because there doesn't seem to really be a point. The cannabinolic acids are definitely not active at CB1 or CB2 - or eating raw weed would work way better. They don't have much research behind them but I would assume that they are mostly lacking in health benefits. Also, unless the THC-A is isolated properly, and kept in ideal conditions (preferably as cold as possible, in a sealed, dark container) it will degrade to THC, potentially quite quickly.

So you have a product that takes special effort to isolate, seemingly lacks psychoactivity, and is only really useful when it readily decomposes into (possibly illegal) THC. There is also not a lot of demand.

Maybe some specialty stores might find a chemist willing to isolate some as a special order, but it would not be cheap.

If you want to experience THC-A, go eat an eighth of some random bud, especially if it hasn't specifically been cured/aged, and prepare to be underwhelmed. No need to isolate it.
 
"Extremely dangerous" if done by amateurs or without a regard to safety. However, it's quite possible to work with flammable solvents in such a fashion that the risk of fire or explosion is greatly reduced (sealed-off systems, fume hoods, careful temperature control, general fire safety like no sparks or open flames, etc). Many labs do solvent extractions on a regular basis, and even amateur extractions can be done safely.
Also, solvent removal in general can be as easy as melting your extract and holding it at a certain temperature. The gold standard is to heat and melt it in a vacuum oven, at low pressure, to ensure any solvent turns to gas and is pumped away - and residual solvent usually has a noticeable smell as well as makes any extract much less solid.
THC extraction can also be done with supercritical CO2 (used to decaffeinate coffee beans), which does have its own risks (high pressure gas/liquid handling, and CO2 is in theory toxic if a massive leak occurs) and costs more, but also extracts cannabinoids well, evaporates instantly, and leaves no solvent residue. It can even be recycled.

Anyway, the reasons THC-A crystals are rarely if ever seen:
1. Most commercial/mature marijuana contains at least some THC in addition to THC-A. But the "desired product" is usually THC so growers prefer selling those strains.
2. THC-A is not super stable. Even at room temperature in the dark, some THC-A will decarboxylate, gradually. And as stated before, acid exposure, heat, and very likely base exposure and UV light all convert it to THC and CO2. Thankfully there are no enzymes that decarboxylate it.
3. Separating THC-A from the other cannabinoids is not something that can be done super easily.
Normally if you take freshly dried buds and extract them with butane/hexane/heptane/naphtha, you will get an extract that can contain proportionally quite large amounts of THC-A (and if the plant produces CBD, CBD-A will also be present). Ordinarily this is hard to detect, typical bioassay techniques like "dabbing" or using a vape pen will, through heating, convert all THC-A to THC. And analysis on a GC by most methods will also decarboxylate the sample (as the sample on a GC first passes through an injection port heated to >300C or so), meaning analysis should ideally be done on a HPLC, but can be done on GC too, however derivitization is needed - reacting the sample with e.g. BSTFA, a quick and easy reaction done by adding a premeasured amount of solution to a small sample, which masks the phenolic OH and the carboxylic acid COOH with protective trimethylsilyl groups [Image: THC-A-2TMS - aka THC-A with a trimethylsilyl on the OH and COOH - structure and mass spectral 'fingerprint'], allowing them to survive a GC after all.

The two ways I have seen to seperate THC-A that would work are, adding an amine like triethylamine (or many others, even quinine(?)) to a solvent solution of cannabinoid extract, which precipitates crystals of triethylammonium tetrahydrocannabinol-carboxylate that can be carefully neutralized to isolate pure THC-A [ref], or alternatively flash chromatography of the crude cannabinoid extract (which as a bonus can seperate individual cannabinoids as well, i.e. THC from CBD from CBN). However solvents are needed, and also some means of identifying the product.
Another method that might work but I am less confident about is simply dissolving the crude cannabis extract in e.g. pentane or hexane and cooling it to very low temperatures for a long time, in the hope that THC-A is less soluble and will precipitate (but also, other things could precip too like waxes/fats).
Another thing that has not been considered is that every cannabinoid the Cannabis plant makes is actually produced as the carboxylic acid. So, there is also such a thing as CBD-A, CBG-A, and so on. Separating THC-A and CBD-A (or others) could only be done by chromatography unfortunately, and the easiest way to check if you have a mixture is by doing thin layer chromatography (unfortunately.)
Like its THC analog, CBD-A is much less bioactive, does not metabolize to CBD, converts to CBD when heated (slower and less completely than THCA->THC [ref]), but converts instead to THC if exposed to acid (decarboxylation and the acidic resorcinol OH attacking the outlying isopropenyl group of the terpene "half" of CBD, forming an ether ring, i.e. THC is formed. It can happen either like CBD-A -> THC-A -> THC or CBD-A -> CBD -> THC.

The main reason this is not done is because there doesn't seem to really be a point. The cannabinolic acids are definitely not active at CB1 or CB2 - or eating raw weed would work way better. They don't have much research behind them but I would assume that they are mostly lacking in health benefits. Also, unless the THC-A is isolated properly, and kept in ideal conditions (preferably as cold as possible, in a sealed, dark container) it will degrade to THC, potentially quite quickly.

So you have a product that takes special effort to isolate, seemingly lacks psychoactivity, and is only really useful when it readily decomposes into (possibly illegal) THC. There is also not a lot of demand.

Maybe some specialty stores might find a chemist willing to isolate some as a special order, but it would not be cheap.

If you want to experience THC-A, go eat an eighth of some random bud, especially if it hasn't specifically been cured/aged, and prepare to be underwhelmed. No need to isolate it.
I get it at my med shop all the time at a purity of 99.5 THC-a(30 a gram), I dab it and add it to bowl toppings. Most weed has THCA in and that why you have to burn it so im confused on what you saying here. There are many publications that show this. I lived in Denver dude I worked at a shop. I also have a graduate degree in chemistry......
 
Okay, but what advantage does it have over plain ol' THC?
 
Okay, but what advantage does it have over plain ol' THC?
its a powder rather then a very viscous liquid, easier to use, its a purified keif iff you wanna look at it that way
Easier for me to use instead of heating up water and drip wise adding the THC to my bowls etc
 
It's "legal"
That too lol but I got a med card and live in a legal place so its not that bad. Personally I get where your coming from and I don't have the tolerance you do but when I lived in Denver I def had your tolerance but the THCA crystals were like 80$ for a half gram at the LEGAL store
If you get "live resin" it'll have THCA crystals in it with just terpenes, thats if you into dabbing as I once was and found weed to be much cheaper and less harsh on my anxiety. Also its a shit tone cheaper when u get flower plus it slows me down cause I cant get that much thc in me
 
It looks like the DEA had a blanket legislation putting all cannabinoids extracted from Cannabis, presumably including their acid forms, in schedule I, circa 2016.
[Rolling Stone].
I believe the later 2018 Hemp Farming Act (legalized hemp and its extracts with less than 0.3% THC) would cover CBD for sure, but THCA... if you were to GC it without careful derivatization, it would decarboxylate in the inlet and it'd appear to be plain ol THC.
And even then, I'm unsure how stable it is over the medium to long term. We know that it naturally decarboxylates in the plant when it is dried, heated, burned etc. but nobody knows for sure how long or under what circumstances you will get that 0.3% conversion (which is not a lot at all.)
 
I just saw a stand selling THCA at my most recent festival. People were getting high left and right on “legal” shit. They were also selling the 650g Nitrous tanks at a stand too. Everything obviously being stupid expensive.

-GC
 
Someone I know made THC-a crystals, they were dynamite. I didn't know it was really any different from delta-9.
A dispensary I went to months back labeled its stuff as THC-a 28% etc. and low delta-9, which now that I'm reading this thread I don't know is correct or maybe I'm just confused.
 
I just saw a stand selling THCA at my most recent festival. People were getting high left and right on “legal” shit. They were also selling the 650g Nitrous tanks at a stand too. Everything obviously being stupid expensive.

-GC
The local THCA bud is stupid expensive. Something to try to say you did. Before the DEA made rumblings, I got THCA isolate online cheap as chips. I just checked and you still can, but that company (and others, I think) is saying it will be discontinued.

Don't want to make a habit of it anyway. Prefer flower. I definitely suffer from FOMO.
 
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