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Are hypnotics/sedative-hypnotics a hallucinogen family?

theprinceoflife

theprinceoflife

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Feb 18, 2023
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The mechanism of action is anything but anticholinergic for these drugs. Most of them are nonbenzodiazepines, and work mainly on the GABA-a receptor. However, the hallucinations produced by hypnotics tends to be distinctly different from deliriants in that there is a more dissociative-like atmosphere and innate euphoria to the experience. My experiences with Ambien (zolpidem) have felt like if diphenhydramine was pleasant, with a more euphoric cannabis or dextromethorphan kind of vibe.

So, are hypnotics their own thing, or what?
 
The Z drugs are definitely in a weird class of their own. Ambien has a bizzare and miraculous ability to bring people out of comas/vegetative states, and to temporarily heal other severe neurological disorders.

I've taken deliriant level doses of ambien, but don't recall any hallucinations, only bizzare behavior and confusion. It's possible I had them but just dont remember.
 
I was thinkin a few nights ago and I imagined that anything that has a psychoative effect would give one a dif persprctive(s) so maybe it all is (or could be) "psychedelic" or hallucinogeic...? IDK
 
theprinceoflife said:
The mechanism of action is anything but anticholinergic for these drugs. Most of them are nonbenzodiazepines, and work mainly on the GABA-a receptor. However, the hallucinations produced by hypnotics tends to be distinctly different from deliriants in that there is a more dissociative-like atmosphere and innate euphoria to the experience. My experiences with Ambien (zolpidem) have felt like if diphenhydramine was pleasant, with a more euphoric cannabis or dextromethorphan kind of vibe.

So, are hypnotics their own thing, or what?
Click to expand...


Technically, sedative/hypnotics that work on the GABAA receptors are a class of drugs in themselves that are distinct from any other type of tranquilizer, hallucinogen or sedatives. I think what makes GABAA agonists so unique and according to many, very pleasant, is that they shut down brain activity in a more balanced manner. this is just my opinion, but I think it makes sense. Let’s consider a different set of anaesthetics, the NMDA antagonists. by opposing glutamate, the unfamiliar individual would imagine that NMDA receptor antagonist would produce effects ranging from decreased arousal/awareness to unconsciousness and sedation/anaesthesia in adults dependent manner. Yes, some of these affects can occur, however, Low to moderately high doses of NMDA receptor antagonists paradoxically produce hallucinations and psychosis. this is because NMDA receptor blockade causes dysfunction of inhibitory interneurons, and in turn a massive release of glutamate in certain regions of the brain. I assume anticholinergics likely have a similar mechanism, that is, blockade of muscarinic receptors which ideally should just induce amnesia and decreased awareness actually causes bizarre deliriant/hallucinogenic/ psychotomimetic affects, perhaps through flooding certain brain areas with neurotransmitters like
glutamate
GABAA agonists may still induce some perceptual distortions and hallucinations via indirect stimulation of excessive glutamate release, but overall, they directly oppose most excitatory neurotransmission in a balanced manner. this results in a very strong general decrease in awareness, arousal and anxiety creating feelings of calm and bliss. therefore, even if hallucinations did occur in these circumstances, A person under the influence probably couldn’t care less what the hallucinations were. Furthermore, the extremely powerful memory impairing effect likely means most hallucinations aren’t even emotionally processed or remembered.
 
Z-drugs do seem to cause some people to enter very odd ASCs. People taking an Ambien on a long flight waking up in a cell after going crazy on the planes has some very famous exponents.
 
theprinceoflife said:
What is an ASC?
Click to expand...

Altered State of Consciousness.

www.theguardian.com

'The devil's aspirin': why do so many celebrities blame Ambien?

Elon Musk, Roseanne Barr, Tiger Woods and others have all claimed the sedative was at fault for their strange behavior
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Back in 2002 Peter Buck (REM) was charged with 'air rage' and was found not guilty because he had taken Ambien with a couple of glasses of wine. I would argue that the packaging clearly states 'no alcohol' and for a very good reason.

Now I actually studied this. Older hypnotic medicines such as nitrazepam, temazepam and even methaqualone all act on a number of GABAa subunits. It's specifically the α1 subunit that is responsible for the brain's executive function. If someone takes a medicine that switches off executive function and then alcohol which depresses the α1β2γ2 subunit even more, people will act in impulse - in short it will feel like you are in a dream.

I think that hat is why some people are 'nasty drunks'.



.
 
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Fertile said:
Z-drugs do seem to cause some people to enter very odd ASCs. People taking an Ambien on a long flight waking up in a cell after going crazy on the planes has some very famous exponents.
Click to expand...
I was on ambien briefly and that was the last time i got in a fist fight. lol apparently i got the whole party to agree to throw there cellys in a pillowcase so noone would call 5-0 than got my ass beat haha. nonbenzos what a great name.

huh directly after ambien i was on temazepam and found it quite a decent benzo. Probably preferable to the clonazepam im scripted currently but it has a real bad name in our small little area for god knows why.
 
smokeymcpot42088 said:
I was on ambien briefly and that was the last time i got in a fist fight. lol apparently i got the whole party to agree to throw there cellys in a pillowcase so noone would call 5-0 than got my ass beat haha. nonbenzos what a great name.

huh directly after ambien i was on temazepam and found it quite a decent benzo. Probably preferable to the clonazepam im scripted currently but it has a real bad name in our small little area for god knows why.
Click to expand...

Clonazepam is a nitrobenzodiazepine and so it has pretty high affinity for the α1 subunit as well. I have never liked or trusted Z-drugs. They are supposed to have less abuse potential than benzodiazepines but they target the same site as alcohol and have rapid onset and short duration...

So they are MORE likely to lead to dependence and misuse.

I suppose people old enough to recall barbiturates/methaqualone/clomethiazole didn't think much of benzodiazepines BUT the next generation grows up with benzodiazepines being the de facto standard for sedative/hypnotics and think they are fine. Now a generation is growing up with the Z-drugs as the de facto standard.

BTW I should say that I'm also not too thrilled about some of the RC benzodiazepines. Some of them are already being shown to be toxic. They are not really new, they were all made in the 1960s and 1970s but they didn't end up reaching market. When that happens, you would want to know WHY... or at least I would.
 
Aye, no complaints by clonazepam... Yea those ambiens lent 0 use therapeutically for me. So short lasting and just generally didn't feel right.

Which of the rc benzos do you consider a bit on the toxic side, if you think id understand why? Of course I wondered why none of them hit the market. I kind of figured potency but halcion reached market so yea maybe I shoulda showed a little more concern.....

Yea never had a good barb, for a while there was a phenobarbital/codeine pill that was decent but very light on the barb site. Or maybe pentobarbital, it was awhile ago and it was very underwhelming.

I thought soma was alright, for what it was.
 
Well bromazolam actually looks safer than many (from a toxicity perspective) but I don't think the dose-response curve, side-effects and safety profile is known and who knows what is really in some pill obtained from the internet?
 
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