Appeals court says requirement to attend AA unconstitutional

[tiger-bunny]

good deal, I dont think the parolees that didnt wanna go to AA wanted to be there and i think most of the people in AA dont want people to be forced to go there either. ITs a win for all involved

 

[Fight Club]

good deal, I dont think the parolees that didnt wanna go to AA wanted to be there and i think most of the people in AA dont want people to be forced to go there either. ITs a win for all involved

Great point. Nothing makes me want to run from an AA / NA meeting faster than a bunch of dull, lifeless and disinterested faces sitting there with court slips in hand . . .

Leave the programs to the people that want to be there.

FC

 

[phr]

good deal, I dont think the parolees that didnt wanna go to AA wanted to be there and i think most of the people in AA dont want people to be forced to go there either. ITs a win for all involved

Exactly. If you're forced to attend, and you have no interest in being there, AA/NA will certainly not work for you. A lot of participation is involved.

Forcing uninterested people to go is just wasting everyone's time.

I wonder if the NA/AA programs receive any type of gov't funding? Maybe based on attendance?

 

[*Love*Lite*]

If you're talking about public universities thats a different story.

yea i actually went to a public college in NJ.

 

[I am shpongled]

I just hope they don't start increasing prison sentences to compensate for the lack of AA meetings.

 

[privateparts]

ha 'Thank God' was there no pun intended in that one? but yes it's about motherfucking time

 

[qwe]

If you are committing crimes and making the roadways unsafe for the sober people that have someplace to go (i.e. the reason you are being forced into a program in the first place) then YOU are the even bigger hassle for society. Get it?

FC

because every addict arrested is committing crimes (besides 'possession/selling') and making roadways unsafe...

 

[Fight Club]

I wonder if the NA/AA programs receive any type of gov't funding? Maybe based on attendance?

Not a dime. They are entirely self-supporting through member contributions.

FC

 

[drew345]

Does this apply to the whole country or just the state the ruling was in? I am required to do AA NA meetings for y probation do I not have to now?

 

[Fight Club]

Does this apply to the whole country or just the state the ruling was in? I am required to do AA NA meetings for y probation do I not have to now?

Think before you raise that issue with your PO. They may not be able to send you to AA, but if you resist that idea, they may substitute an inpatient or outpatient rehab program that is likely to cost you some $$$ if you live in the US.

 

[Adrenochrome]

Think before you raise that issue with your PO. They may not be able to send you to AA, but if you resist that idea, they may substitute an inpatient or outpatient rehab program that is likely to cost you some $$$ if you live in the US.

I call BULLSHIT

 

[MrM]

Maybe you should just go about your day without infringing on the rights and beliefs of others . . .

FC

Isn't that what the state is doing if it requires people to go to a religion based alcoholic recover organisation as part of a parol program?

I'm an atheist and i can imagine finding it extremely distracting, to the point where i got no benefit from the program whatesoever, if the discussion and treatment was focused around the idea of god.

 

[Fight Club]

I call BULLSHIT

??? I'm not sure I understand, but want to try: Are you saying that a court won't order you to attend rehab and pay for it as a condition of probation? Where do you live?

I live in Pennsylvania, USA and attended outpatient rehab for 18 months. Most of the people in that program were there as a condition of probation and most had to pay between $15 and $50 per session.

FC

 

[Fight Club]

Isn't that what the state is doing if it requires people to go to a religion based alcoholic recover organisation as part of a parol program?

I'm an atheist can i can imagine finding it extremely distracting, to the point where i got no benefit from the program whatesoever, if the discussion and treatment was focused around the idea of god.

Not at all. I would think that if you don't want to take direction from others as a condition of parole, then staying where you are (in prison) is always an option.

I'm not a big fan of government mandated attendance at AA / NA meetings. Attending meetings regularly involves a substantial commitment of time and energy on my part, and the last thing I want to do is spend that time with someone who doesn't want to be there.

FC

 

[Adrenochrome]

Well i've been busted with 19 bags of heroin one time, a few months later with 10 bags, and weed & alc a bunch of times and got a DUI/leaving the scene of an accident, and i've never been told I had to go to a rehab (i'm just on 410 drug-probation) and i never got convicted of a felony

 

[Broshious]

Well i've been busted with 19 bags of heroin one time, a few months later with 10 bags, and weed & alc a bunch of times and got a DUI/leaving the scene of an accident, and i've never been told I had to go to a rehab (i'm just on 410 drug-probation) and i never got convicted of a felony

I'm a dick.

 

[mulberryman]

Well, if you really don't want to go to AA, all you have to do is find a couple people who's handwriting is different and have them make up some fake names and their cell phone no's and sign your attendance sheets. There's absolutlly no way for your PO to check it, if they call the numbers, well, duh, all they have to say is that you went to a meeting with them. It is Alcoholics Anonymous, after all. Then the religious nuts who run the courts and the government get their jollys off that another one's been converted to the self-imposed opression of state-imposed Christiantiy, and you are the one laughing all the way back to the dope house. Of course, the dope man is making money for the man too, as everyone knows how the CIA pushes drugs into urban centers for Wall Street Republicans to get endlessly rich on legally untrackable Columbian greenbacks.

 

[MrM]

Not at all. I would think that if you don't want to take direction from others as a condition of parole, then staying where you are (in prison) is always an option.

Now that's just harsh. What you are saying, effectively, is that only people willing to go with a religious program are allowed early parol for cooperating with that treatment program. That's just wrong on so many levels.

If you have separation of church and state, and if the state is offering treatment for drug and alcohol addicts as an option for early parol, then they MUST offer programs than can benefit everyone, regardless of their faith (or lack thereof). Imagine how you would feel if in jail due to drugs or alcohol related reasons if you were passed up for early release and badly needed treatment, just because the only treatment on offer required you to embrace the teachings of mohammed.

Do you believe that only christians and other religious people deserve the chance to get out of prison early and receive treatment for their addiction which may be the reason they were in prison in the first place?

Well i guess christians do believe that you receive forgiveness and salvation only through jesus christ. I guess from that perspective non christians who don't (and aren't willing to) can go fuck themselves rotting in jail a little longer.

Direction from others in terms of beating an addiction is one thing, direction that requires you to embrace a 'higher power' and talk about jesus all day is another.

 

[Fight Club]

Now that's just harsh. What you are saying, effectively, is that only people willing to go with a religious program are allowed early parol for cooperating with that treatment program. That's just wrong on so many levels.

If you have separation of church and state, and if the state is offering treatment for drug and alcohol addicts as an option for early parol, then they MUST offer programs than can benefit everyone, regardless of their faith (or lack thereof). Imagine how you would feel if in jail due to drugs or alcohol related reasons if you were passed up for early release and badly needed treatment, just because the only treatment on offer required you to embrace the teachings of mohammed.

Do you believe that only christians and other religious people deserve the chance to get out of prison early and receive treatment for their addiction which may be the reason they were in prison in the first place?

Well i guess christians do believe that you receive forgiveness and salvation only through jesus christ. I guess from that perspective non christians who don't (and aren't willing to) can go fuck themselves rotting in jail a little longer.

Direction from others in terms of beating an addiction is one thing, direction that requires you to embrace a 'higher power' and talk about jesus all day is another.

I do agree with all your points. I think it's a bad idea to require AA attendance as a condition of probation / parole. As an AA member, I really don't want people who don't want to be there showing up to get their court slip signed. I think that perhaps the real reasons the courts require AA/NA attendance are a) it doesn't cost the courts / government a dime, and b) it works as well as other treatment alternatives out there, at least for people that embrace the program.

FC

 

[MrM]

I think that perhaps the real reasons the courts require AA/NA attendance are a) it doesn't cost the courts / government a dime, and b) it works as well as other treatment alternatives out there, at least for people that embrace the program.

FC

a) Agree entirely, but this is a bad thing. The government should not allow the freeness of something to pervert fair play or the separation of church and state. What if some fundamentalist islamic group offered free schooling for all American children to the US government and they accepted? Would you accept that as a good thing just because it didn't cost the government a dime?

b) It is not a question of embracing the program that is a problem. It is embracing a higher power (AKA God). Unless AA is a clandestine program of christian mind washing (or, as it is sometimes referred to as, conversion) then you can't send atheists or members of other non 'higher power' based belief systems to such a program and then expect them to embrace it, when part and parcel of that would require a fundamental chance in their world view. If you want to try and convert people fine, hand out leaflets or something. Don't force inmates to choose between early freedom and treatment which they need and their current non 'higher power' based world view, thats just underhanded.