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Anyone into the tarot ? I think it's great.

pinkpapaver

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I did something I always wanted to do last year, I got some tarot cards. What had stopped me was the catholic voice inside saying that they were bad, they were eveil, don't mess with the unknown blah blah! I think it's great. I love looking at my cards. Reason religions say this is because it is good and it means people take charge themselves. It's amazing how many others hold the "nooooo! the devil's going to et you if you mess with that!" like, rational people. I mean, how can a pack of cards be evil? it just goes to show how the religious programming penetrates deep.
 
IIRC the reason why Catholicism frowns on tarot is because only God is supposed to know the future and fate of humans, and not people, which is why psychics and diviners were heavily persecuted during the inquisition era for blasphemy. Some of that thinking persists to this day in the ideology.

I've seen amazing synchronicities in the cards before, but since I will probably be attacked by skeptics for talking about it, I'll just say that tarot is a good projection tool that can help you explore your own psyche in a more creative, non-linear way.
 
^Is it just Catholicism, or are there any specific passages in the Bible that forbid use of divination? I seem to find things that hint that way:

Leviticus 19:26

“You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes."

That is just one that I found, that could apply more directly to Tarot.

I haven't had experience with Tarot, myself, but I have used the I Ching. I bought a deck of cards that had the hexagrams on them, and artwork by Klaus Holitzka. My first question for it was asking what I was, basically, or just "What?", generally. I took my time, feeling out which card I wanted, and something pulled me to one. Felt right. Picked it up, and it was Hexagram 56- The Traveler. This was also, coincidentally, the hexagram that was displayed as the cover art for the box. This would be the "present". The "future" (as the I Ching is structured, first reading is present, and second is future, and then you pay attention to the lines that change, and read about them, for what you need to do to reach a positive outcome in the future), at this time I forget what it was... I would need to look back at my journals, or through the deck again at least, and I don't feel like it. But that being first, and first, seemed to be something.

To add to the synchronicity, a best friend who was traveling to Germany for school soon after/within a day, or so, showed up within a few minutes to my house. I associated "Traveler" with him, as well.

This Hexagram- 56- The Traveler/Wanderer, has been associated with the Fool of the Tarot- where it apparently "starts" (as it's supposed to be a journey/process, I think? I don't know... Just what I am recalling off hand).

Are you a "Fool" for even starting? ;)
 
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Does it work though. One problem I have with it, is if I keep the same question in my mind, but lay out the cards multiple times, I get different readings each time. The i-ching on the other hand, I've mysteriously get near identical hexagrams multiple times in a row.
 
^Thats pretty amazing. I've never tried it.

Like how many times in a row are we talking? Or do you mean, by nearly identical, that they relate?
 
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For this to be legitimate there needs to be an explanation for how it works. The human brain is good at imagining patterns where there are none.
 
Eh... I was with a girl once. My failure was my own doing. But when with her she divined using some kind of "angel cards". She was laying them down. Almost simultaneously with my recognition that this girl could be my "purpose", feeling strong, she laid down a card that said none other than "purpose".

The cards are examples of synchronicity.

Yes... Imagination... But if it is.
. So is the world. Or at least imagination is tied.

What I say when people try to say imagination is "false", is that it is also contained in reality. Its not just suddenly not part of it. Our heads are not off limits.

Still confusion can happen. I'm not sure if we will ever figure out how it works. And said girl is not my wife.
 
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For this to be legitimate there needs to be an explanation for how it works. The human brain is good at imagining patterns where there are none.

well, you'll see what you want to. or what you need to. Interesting that the bible tells you to ignore omens! but then says that god gives signs. grrrr. manes me annoyed that does.

people get scared of the devil and the death cards. My first look at the debil card I had it sussed. it's so ridiculous in its "I'm trying to look frightening" way. and that's how I interpret it, whatever is scaring you isn't scary at all.

there are no coincidences! everything is written. well, I don't think it's all written but there are no coincidences. this happens for that reason and the othe and you go with the flow. My mom died when I was 6 so I lost out on a lot because of that. But, I've done my journey, learnt a lot the hard way and so I'm where I should be. See the old drug addiction thing, that is part of my journey too. I know where I want to be in life now as I shuffle towards 40 with a spring in my step. It's fab.
 
Tarot cards aren't for me just like i never enjoyed playing a ouija board. Not a big fan of psychics but it's hard to argue with some of the greater ones like edgar cayce.
 
people get scared of the devil and the death cards. My first look at the debil card I had it sussed. it's so ridiculous in its "I'm trying to look frightening" way. and that's how I interpret it, whatever is scaring you isn't scary at all.

I don't use decks with those cards. There are so many different kinds of decks out there now that it's possible to receive constructive feedback without it being rude or evil looking. I also won't accept bad cards in an otherwise good reading because it helps set a better intention. If I keep getting rude cards then I know something's up though.

Does it work though. One problem I have with it, is if I keep the same question in my mind, but lay out the cards multiple times, I get different readings each time. The i-ching on the other hand, I've mysteriously get near identical hexagrams multiple times in a row.

I have 6 tarot decks and I've had times when they all tell me the exact same story... it's eerie. Other times, they make no fucking sense whatsoever. I like using multiple decks because if there is a pattern happening in the universe (or in you) then it will show itself no matter which deck you use. I also believe that there is a connection between your state of being and the cards you draw beyond mere psychology, which is why on some nights there is great synchronicity in the cards and other times it's non-sensical.
 
I actually collect different sets of tarot cards. I have one set in particular that I consult more often because they are positive. Even with typically negative cards they offer a silver-lining. To me, the tarot isn't so much a way to read the future as it is a problem-solving tool. I use the cards when I'm feeling lost, confused, stagnant. They provide me with an alternate way of looking at things. I think the important thing is to not interpret them so literally. Look at the card and it's meaning and think of how it relates to you in the particular situation in which you need guidance. Sometimes you're going to get a did..it just doesn't relate at all to your situation. I would recommend ending the session and coming back to it when you are a bit more relaxed and focused.
 
My ex was into tarrot cards... We were good for each other. But eh we lied about loving each other. And ehh. Towards the end of our relationship we were fighting alot and so I suggested we did a tarrot card reading. She pulled them out, I didn't ask a question, I just said "our relationship" and then I drew the lust card. -.- I was just like ye I guess this really isn't love and then our relationship started declining. I suppose it was for the best?
 
I used to read cards. "Predicted" a death and a birth. Till this day I'm not sure if it was real. At the time I totally believed. I was also so far gone that I "saw" demons and shadow people on a regular basis.

I am now clean and sober and with out a doubt an athiest. Funny how I had more spirituality while on drugs.
 
I don't use decks with those cards. There are so many different kinds of decks out there now that it's possible to receive constructive feedback without it being rude or evil looking. I also won't accept bad cards in an otherwise good reading because it helps set a better intention. If I keep getting rude cards then I know something's up though.

I have 6 tarot decks and I've had times when they all tell me the exact same story... it's eerie. Other times, they make no fucking sense whatsoever. I like using multiple decks because if there is a pattern happening in the universe (or in you) then it will show itself no matter which deck you use. I also believe that there is a connection between your state of being and the cards you draw beyond mere psychology, which is why on some nights there is great synchronicity in the cards and other times it's non-sensical.

Foreigner you have the same fringe beliefs/conjectures as I do regarding these cards but how on earth could anyone defend the position that the selection of 1 card from a pack of 72 is not perfectly random but due to external forces? What forces? Why? How? It would have to be the shuffler having subconscious knowledge of the positions of each of the cards and some force working through the shuffler. Really, I have no idea. Should I put my cards away or burn them as a symbolic gesture against my irrationality and superstition?

The P.E.A.R lab is probably related to this somehow, if their results are correct:
http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/

Where conscious intend alters random number generators. Randi accuses them of being bunglers or frauds, I'm not sure about Randi, can he be trusted to not be a zealot? Can wiki be trusted on these matters? Who can be trusted? Reason I guess, but then where to find the information? Peer-reviewed journals? So much bullshit on the internet!
 
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Tarot Archetypes are very interesting. The Archetypes themselves are very old. I would say the value of the Tarot are what the cards represent themselves and not so much 'telling the future'.
 
Foreigner you have the same fringe beliefs/conjectures as I do regarding these cards but how on earth could anyone defend the position that the selection of 1 card from a pack of 72 is not perfectly random but due to external forces? What forces? Why? How? It would have to be the shuffler having subconscious knowledge of the positions of each of the cards and some force working through the shuffler. Really, I have no idea. Should I put my cards away or burn them as a symbolic gesture against my irrationality and superstition?

The P.E.A.R lab is probably related to this somehow, if their results are correct:
http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/

Where conscious intend alters random number generators. Randi accuses them of being bunglers or frauds, I'm not sure about Randi, can he be trusted to not be a zealot? Can wiki be trusted on these matters? Who can be trusted? Reason I guess, but then where to find the information? Peer-reviewed journals? So much bullshit on the internet!

I get where you're coming from, but I'm not so hung up on the "how". I realize that one of any number of illusions may be coming into play with tarot. I choose not to care because I'm not someone who needs to always know "how" in order to be satisfied with outcomes, especially when it comes to creativity and the imagination. I love mystery for mystery's sake.

As for James Randi, the parameters of his test have been debunked by numerous professionals both scientific and non, as well as paranormal researchers. He sets the bar so high that psychics must essentially have an 80-100% accuracy rate or he will declare them frauds. It's like telling someone they must high-jump really high every time or they're not a great high-jumper, while simultaneously precluding all of the noteworthy high-jumpers who got over at least once, or significantly high but fell just short of the ridiculous standard. When Randi creates a realistic test that also allows design input from psychics, people will take it. The kind of research that happens in Russia and other parts of Asia into paranormal phenomena is really fascinating, and they can do it without fear of reprisals because scientific culture there is not embedded with Judeochristian values.

I don't believe the scientific method is the problem. It's the culture of science here in the west which is the problem. If you never look, you won't find, and so by not looking you can continue to pretend nothing is there.

So in terms of resources to find out whether or not tarot is real... I don't really know what to tell you. Asking what is "real" is such a loaded question. If you choose a single card from tarot over and over, you can still explain it as random chance since there are a limited number of cards. However, I've seen much more fascinating things. Last year I was doing readings with a friend for fun. I chose the same 7 cards three times after thoroughly shuffling the deck each, and then out of refusal to believe, I asked my friend to shuffle the deck and pick my 7 cards for me. She picked the same ones. I'd like to see Randi explain something like that.

Like I said... I don't know the phenomenon. Maybe there's no phenomenon. Maybe it's just "the universe". I'm content with the mystery. Other people can spend their lives wracking their brains and fighting over it if they want. *shrug*
 
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So in terms of resources to find out whether or not tarot is real... I don't really know what to tell you. Asking what is "real" is such a loaded question. If you choose a single card from tarot over and over, you can still explain it as random chance since there are a limited number of cards. However, I've seen much more fascinating things. Last year I was doing readings with a friend for fun. I chose the same 7 cards three times after thoroughly shuffling the deck each, and then out of refusal to believe, I asked my friend to shuffle the deck and pick my 7 cards for me. She picked the same ones. I'd like to see Randi explain something like that.

Probability happens whether or not the numbers are big or small. Rare events with low probability have to happen sometimes, or they would be impossible and not just rare. The universe is a big place, after all. There's also built in pressure from your dopamine circuitry to ascribe meaning and reward to unexpected events.
An example: say there's a country-wide lottery in China, where all 2-3 billion or so people get a ticket. Assuming a normal random distribution and no political corruption (ha-ha), if you look at the chance of any one individual winning, it is nonexistent at best. But still someone must win the lottery, so one of those chances will prove true despite its low probability. The guy who won would probably feel very lucky!

If you told me your friend draws the same seven cards every time she uses a Tarot deck, I'd be impressed. Otherwise I ascribe this kind of stuff to Random Chance and try not to read too much meaning into it, like the time our class found a doppelganger of one of our students at the amusement park, who found it humorous that he was being corraled with a school he never knew...

(Also: re: deck shuffling, I've read rumblings that most people don't shuffle cards half as well as they think they do. I personally think humans are shit at randomisation, which is why we invented radioactivity-based RNGs - or lavalamp RNGs!)

As for James Randi, the parameters of his test have been debunked by numerous professionals both scientific and non, as well as paranormal researchers. He sets the bar so high that psychics must essentially have an 80-100% accuracy rate or he will declare them frauds.

Nobody lets high jumpers into the Olympics if they can only do a high jump once or twice and 90%+ of their jumps fail. Likewise I think the bar should be set really high for "psychic activity" to exclude just this sort of probability manipulation... if you can't reliably execute your psychic effect, is it really "psychic" or just an advanced form of situational awareness spliced with dumb luck?

I also think the MKULTRA program, and to an extent CoS would have done a lot better in their, uhm, dealings with people, if there really were psychic activities. The Scilons sure try hard enough, but yelling at ashtrays to move them with sheer will still seems futile in this day and age, even after the US Government decided they were just kooks.
 
The death card is new beginnings right?! People will always be afraid of what is unfamiliar to them. A lot of it stems from old religions n sometimes peer pressure. I've actually had my tarot cards read n everything came true. Not all readers believe in using the tarot to read the future but as a guide to help them in their current lives.

Evey xxxx
 
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