Anyone have experience getting clean and then using occasionally?

[Khadijah]

How was I passing judgment??! I was just stating a fact.. her child IS going to be born addicted to methadone... how can anyone deny that?

Becuz it aint true. up to 30 percent of babies born to methadone dependent mothers are not dependent when they are born. Maybe you oughta do a lil more research before you comment--Trust me, I done mine.

 

[MissZee]

I got clean in Feb, since then I've taken H a good few times. Only when I'm with certain people though.

Tbh, I still enjoy a burn now and again. Because I'm not taking it everyday, my tolerance has went down and I get wasted from half a £10 bag.

 

[Khadijah]

Yea I agree with Sentience.. how can people that take methadone and suboxone consider themselves to be clean? I mean sure you're getting your doses daily from a doctor and your life is more manageable but how is that clean? If heroin was available as a maintenance drug and you got it every day from a doctor would you consider yourself clean then as well? You're still taking opiates... methadone and suboxone are REALLY strong.. maybe not compared to full agonists like heroin but to diminish the potency of methadone or suboxone is really just fooling yourself.. most people get sick after taking suboxone recreationally for the first time. It's very strong. I don't care if you take it for "pain", you're still taking drugs and I don't consider that clean. If you're going to fail a drug test, you're not clean in my book.

<Removing part of post that restates a part of post previously removed. The post was removed for a reason, the reason was explained to you. Do not disrespect other members. Follow the TDS Guidelines or do not Post.- Ocean>

"Pain".....Right....any reason that is in quotes? You might not intend for it to come off that way, but it really looks like you are tryna hint at the idea that it aint a legit condition, that im a "pain patient" wink wink, and not a person who is in legitimate chronic pain and gets the medication for that. If thats the case, I aint even gotta point out how ridiculous it is for somebody who got absolutely zero idea to judge or assume like that. You got no idea, at all, the complete total of all the information you know about my situation is zero, so dont think that your comment holds much weight.

Anyways, its obvious that you aint too educated about addiction. There is much, much more to it than the physical. Addiction is a lot more about the shit goin on mentally than physically.

A person who dont take ANY drugs at all but is still constantly miserable without drugs, dreaming about drugs, wishing they could get high, thinking about gettin high, thinkin about it 24/7, etc, is still an addict. They might not have the drug in their system, but they aint changed one bit. They are the same exact addict, who is currently not using. It aint about "whether or not you can pass a drug test." If thats all it comes down to, is the person who gets forced to take a break for a few days becuz he aint got no money or no way to cop, but who fully intends on using again as soon as possible, is he also clean? Just becuz the drug aint in his system?

If a person stops using all the drugs that they abused, and they are prescribed an opiate out of necessity, and they dont abuse it at all, they never take more than perscribed, they dont hoard the drug or try to get more of it, they aint got no addictive behavior or thoughts about it at all, then no, they aint an addict.

The simple fact that they got these quantities of their DOC just sitting there all day long and they DONT abuse them or ever take extra or try to get high or nothing like that, is a perfect example of how they did change their ways and aint the same person no more.

If a person been clean off heroin 10 years, and they get surgery and get IV morphine in the hospital, are they a drug addict now, becuz they cant pass a drug test? Are they back to square one?

To act like its simply about whether or not you got the drug in you is ridiculous. It aint that simple. Your mindset, mentality, the way you think of drugs, how you act when it comes to drugs, your obsession (or lack of obsesssion) with them, and much much more, all got FAR more to do with whether a person is an addict or whether they have successfully ended their addiction.

Whether or not they take a legitimately prescribed opiate aint got nothing to do with it. If they aint using that opiate in the way that they abused their drug of choice then it aint fuckin relevant.

You can have a urine test as clean as a whistle and still be a miserable addict who aint no different than the one who is currently using. And you can be prescribed 8 oxy's a day and not be an addict. it all depends on the way you approach your use, and the psychological side of it.

Obviously if you are usin a drug and it AINT prescribed, or you conned some dr. to script you something recreational and it AINT for a legitimate reason and you dont relaly NEED it, then that use would count as abuse. But i am talking about legitimately prescribed opiates that aint abused that are just used exactly as prescribed. Being on that has nothing to do with whether you successfully kicked your addiction or not. If you completely changed who you are as a person, if you stopped all that junkie behavior, if that obsession with dope(or your DOC) is gone, if you dont feel no desire to abuse drugs anymore, if you have no problem taking your doses as prescribed and never try to get high off it , never got the desire to abuse it, if you dont think of it the way you used to think of your dope, etc....That makes a big difference. The physical part of addiction is the plainest, simplest, most basic part of it, and its a very small part.The act of changing your brain and the way it works, becomin a different person mentally, is the real hard work.And if you do that, while not using your DOC no more, while never abusing drugs, then yes, you most definately are clean. Clean refers to being a person who no longer abuses drugs, who medically and psychologically cant be classified as an addict...it refers to a whole lot of changes, and the huge majority of them aint tangible physical things.


To deny a person on pain management the "right" to be clean is ridiculous, and unfair. A person who has overcame their addiction, who completely changed their life, their mentality, and everything about them, who has stopped abusing drugs, deserves the same respect as anybody else who stoppedusing. If you got a problem with people bein on maintenance thats one thing. I dont agree with it but it makes more sense in a way. But to act like a person who is on pain meds that are necessary for them to function normally, which is something out of their control, aint clean and aint kicked their addiction, just becuz they are on a drug that they require, that aint a voluntary thing, thats incredibly judgemental and closed minded.

 

[Sentience]

You might not meet the clinical definition of addiction, but neither are you free from your dependence.

Unlike others, I am not judging you for your choice. I would be a hypocrite since I also depend on opiates because of pain. However, claiming that you are a success story because you were able to substitute one opiate for another is false. You might have a valid reason for needing opiates, but a success story of somebody who has dabbled in opiates and gotten clean you are not.

 

[izzy66]

i'm 46, did my first shot of heroin at 15, had a several month love affair w/ it until somebody i cared for died, got on a bus outta the city the same day, got clean, did the school thing, got two degrees, and didn't do any opiates for 8 yrs. then i fell into a habit again and moved a couple more times over the next 5 yrs to get away from easy access to H.
a few years ago i began to take methadone for chronic pain due to rheumatoid arthritis after going through more than a decade of treatment w/ disease modifying drugs which caused more harm than good. the day my doc and i had the methadone discussion i broke down in tears afraid that i was going to go off the deep end again and abuse the methadone. and i did for a few months then got a grip and presently use it properly and as prescribed. however i still experience wicked needle cravings at times and if i accidentally stumbled onto some H, i wouldn't exactly trust myself to walk away from it.
one of my brothers once said "rehab is all good but no amount of rehab takes away the memories."
those memories will prob always cause troubles for me but presently i win many more battles than i lose.
-izzy

 

[PhrostByte]

<snip>If children being born addicted to drugs doesn't belong in a sub-forum titled, "The Dark Side", then what does? Apparently I'm supposed to be nicer about it? How can anyone possibly frame statements about this subject in a nice way?

Most babies born exposed to methadone have withdrawals and the hospital has medications to help the baby stay comfortable.

Your baby may not experience withdrawal from methadone until 5-7 days after birth. On average, 60%-90% of babies born to mothers who are in MMT will show withdrawal signs.

A baby has withdrawals just like adults do, including (but not limited to):

* Loose stools
* Yawning
* Poor sleeping
* Sweating
* Fever
* Sneezing
* Seizures
* Tremors

I really think the only person you're fooling is yourself... and unfortunately, your baby... who has no choice in the matter.
Lacey I don't think you're a horrible person or anything.. I think you're sick like the rest of us. Unfortunately you're about to bring another life into existence. Please, do yourself, your baby, and society a favor and conduct a bit of research on Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome. Here's the wiki link that contains links to research articles after the synposis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonatal_abstinence_syndrome

If the moderators delete this post, I'm going to be pissed... this information can help people... there's no reason to silence me whatsoever.

NONE OF THE PARTS WERE RUDE, STOP BEING SO PETTY OCEANLINER!

 

[deeSUHAL]

topic , anyone?

It is pretty difficult to use occasionally when trying to keep clean. I have been trying to do it for the past year and i end up using 5-10 times a month. when i don't have diesel I use subs. And usually I try not to use more than 3 days in a row. And once I come off the physical withdrawls are small especially b/c I got a sub script, but the mental aspects can be difficult for the first few days. And , frankly, I'm getting tired of it. It too much to handle to have these drastic up's and down constantly: feeling like a like everything is perfect then the next day feeling the polar opposite.



I rather just be high all the time , which is really unreasonable and impossible in my situation, which I don't want to explain ,so just take my word. So, I guess I rather/ have to be or maybe , better yet, rather and have to be clean b/c it really is both a choice made by me and made by others around me.



Anyways it's better to be clean all the time or high all the time than to be using once or twice a week. Maybe, like once every few month, but still you'll always have it on your mind and you will rationalize that your gonna use next month anyways so why not this week . Then that week turns into to today and that turns into right now . And by no time your back to being a
junkie.



However, this is my personally experience . I def think it is possible but you gotta have some strong will power and great mental stability . And it really sucks going from getting some bomb dope and knowing that "good good"feeling to not having it the next day. It is the equivalent of blue balls- It's a total tease. And every time you do it you refresh your memory about what it feels like and how great it is to do diesel and the next day all you'll think about is how good it was yesterday , meanwhile making your self feel how bad it is today and how great it will be if you get some more dope. And with those thoughts the logical conclusion arises: get more diesel.



Some people "dabble" or "chip" and have different exigences . It really depends on you but for me this is how it typically goes. So, my advice, generally, is be one or the other: a hardcore junkie or or totally clean.
Albeit, I think maybe only one situation could work with using "occasionally"like a few day binge only once year, but that might be just my mind rationalizing.

 

[Bluefornow]

I've been on/off for months now. It has worked for me so far, but I think it's a more or less "case by case" situation; and besides, I have no faith that if I let myself use more and more frequently, I wont get back to the same level of abuse I had perpetuated before I quit/took a break.
I have talked to quite a few other users about the stop/start, withdrawal, effects, etc. and I've started to think that I possibly metabolize it differently anyway. I get high, and can get pretty fucked up, but I've never had a WD experience. I haven't met any other users who abused to the same degree I have and haven't had withdrawal symptoms. I'm not sure what it is. I doubt ive used any other drugs quite enough to see if I'd withdrawal from other substances, either. I want to like benzos, but they tend to make me instantaneously depressed, blackly so. I played around with meth as well (for some reason I'm far more ashamed of my meth use than the h, no judgement though), and it was kind of enjoyable at the beginning of each use, but it almost always down spiraled into hysterical anxiety, which is FAR from my usual character. Both meth and the benzos seem to produce negative extremes. Depression runs in my family, and I was diagnosed about a year ago as atypical bi polar, but ive since experienced conflicting diagnoses and haven't found a med which works. Possibly slight chemical imbalance of some sort has something to do with my reactions, dunno.

But I sincerely do think casual use post addiction can be done, but it does depend on the person and the situation, the nature and depth of the addiction, etc.

 

[bagochina]

I haven't met any other users who abused to the same degree I have

Gosh, if I had a dollar for every time I thought that.

peace.
seedless

 

[Bluefornow]

Oh, I know I haven't come close to the level of addiction many others have experienced, I just meant that I haven't met anyone else who's done as much as steadily as I have in the past, and never gotten sick/WD from it. Sorry if I didn't phrase clearly.
Peace, certainly,
BFN

 

[halperdude]

kick the habit, your giving into the cravings. Your eyes will completely ignore this and any other post like this unless someone like me points it out. Never believe you can control yourself 'this time' because that never works. That friend of yours who controls his habit doesn't exist. you'll regret it if you relapse, if you survive it.

 

[qwe]

it's been a year since i quit opiates. i still don't have a sweet tooth, though that and my general sense of fatigue have been slowly improving (aka, i'm dealing with PAWS, and it's slowly getting better). my methadone dose went pretty high, at 95mg. i switched to suboxone to taper off since methadone would not last all day (my body was used to long acting poppies)

after quitting, i've used on average once-twice a month. sometimes i'll come across percocets or vicodins or w/e, and have a little vacation in my head for a bit.

sometimes i'm in a mood to nod, like any pleasure sometimes you're in the mood for it. but i feel no cravings for opiates... my brother uses them, and when i see him with a percocet or methadone tablet or whatever i don't feel any cravings at all.

i feel like i've conquered my dependency. it may be "playing with fire", but i love fire

 

[qwe]

I've been using occasionally the past three weeks and it doesn't work. Everytime you use your opening up the door to the beast... cravings get horrible and you keep saying "this is the last time' but then finding yourself with a needle in your arm... if your clean now say good bye to heroin and move on with your life, there's nothing good to come of occasional use.

i feel like this attitude is the problem with a lot of people's drug use.

why is it so imperative to say "goodbye forever"? using sporadically, like once a month, will not cause any dependency problems (physically).

i hate the attitude of "i'll use this poison only one more time". i think it makes no sense. pharmacologically, it's not even a poison at all, and i think my life will be happier with an opiate-vacation-release every once in a while, rather than banning myself completely from hitting those mu receptors. if i try to say "NEVER again will i enjoy these chemicals", well, that would probably make me more likely to use daily rather than monthly!

i think that the physical dependency should be conquered (assuming one doesn't need the drugs for pain, and assuming one doesn't need the maintenance of 'done/bupe to regain stability in their lives first), new pleasures should be found, and then opiates can be re-introduced into one's life in a cautious fashion...

everyone's different though. disquietude is a nebulous cloud that is really hard to disperse or even see, especially when we tinker with the chemistry of our "soul".

 

[villian]

i feel like this attitude is the problem with a lot of people's drug use.

why is it so imperative to say "goodbye forever"? using sporadically, like once a month, will not cause any dependency problems (physically).

I understand where you are coming from and I agree for the most part (although I don't think one should try to occasionally IV drugs)

The problem is many (if not most) addicts have an all or nothing view of drugs. Some people are really lacking in self control and for them it is better not to start at all because they will fail.

On a somewhat related note I think a lot of people are held back trying to quit drugs forever. Don't stress yourself out that much worrying you can never get high again. Just start by telling yourself I'm not going to use this month, or for the next 6 months (you can always extend this obviously)

Gosh, if I had a dollar for every time I thought that.

peace.
seedless

You are the only person I've seen on any forum who has abused benzos to the same extent as me and got clean..

your recovery has been a huge support to me.. when I was coming off the pills I thought I had ruined my brain forever after a decade of high dose benzo use, never mind all the other drugs on top of that.

seeing that you were able to get clean and start going to school made me think I wasn't permanently brain damaged and I would get over it in time. seriously I think I would have never gotten off the shit if I didn't have your story to look at..

I guess I just want to thank you because there is pretty much no way I would be sober today if I hadn't seen your story..

I start school myself in 2 weeks myself and have over 8 months off benzos and about 2 years off opiates and you played a huge part in my staying clean and I just wanted to say thanks because I never have..

 

[qwe]

^i've talked to people coming off of benzodiazepines... it's horrible how scattered and emotionally confused etc etc they get. i'm on a low valium dose per day for therapeutic reasons, but if my doctor ever decides i don't need it anymore, i know i'm in for some heavy shit. i've ran out of tablets really early once (some were traded away, then some were stolen), and i wasn't even able to drive at t+3weeks ("focus on driving... focus... focus on driving and i'll drive fine... jesus christ, i just ran a red light???") i literally was not able to think.

in my opinion... it is completely inhumane to force people to cold turkey or even do a standard (6-12wk) medical taper from benzos and other heavy GABA drugs. nobody should have to lower their benzo dose involuntarily by more than, say, 5% per month, to let their body/mind catch up and not allow the dose reduction to disrupt their life....

i believe actual neurological damage occurs with a too-quick reduction of GABAergics, and our psychosocial climate of "drugs are taboo, quit them now" is shooting ourselves in the foot (or rather, the brain)

if you consult a physician or mental health clinic, though, you'll be told that you should be totally fine after two weeks...

 

[PhrostByte]

kick the habit, your giving into the cravings. Your eyes will completely ignore this and any other post like this unless someone like me points it out. Never believe you can control yourself 'this time' because that never works. That friend of yours who controls his habit doesn't exist. you'll regret it if you relapse, if you survive it.

Been doing ok so far. :]

 

[GirlInterrupted]

It IS possible.
But are you willing to take the risk of going back to your old life style?

I quit my IV habit for 3 months and tried it again recently thinking it was only doing to be a one time thing. BIG MISTAKE. I'm back to how I was, maybe even worse.
I fucken hate it.
I'm sick of this lifestyle and as much as I am ready to quit, when I try to stop it feels like suicide.

 

[PhrostByte]

I guess I just haven't suffered enough? I guess I am willing to risk going back to the hell I was in before. I guess I'm not "too old for this bullshit". I guess I have "another one in me".

 

[godlovesugly]

to me, its all or nothing.

ive tried doing this. i got clean, then my addict mind tries to trick me into thinking, "yeah, i can just use every now and then and ill be ok."

nah. it doesn't work like that. it NEVER happens like that. its either sober or not. you cant have one foot in recovery and the other in the drug world. eventually, you will end up using again like you used to.

 

[abore]

I'd smoked about a pack a day (sometimes more, sometimes less) since I was 16 and have quit so many times, obviously unsuccessful. Mostly I've quit and tried smoking every now and then or just socially, but just one or two a day and eventually started all over again smoking a pack a day. Recently I've quit again and decided if I want to be done for good (and I do) I just can't ever smoke another cigarette. It's been two weeks or so and I'm still using the gum a few times a day just to keep from acting like a butthole to my S.O. when self-control is failing me.

On the other hand...

I was absurd with DXM for about 6 months, really managed to fuck my life up almost as much as possible (dropped out, suicide attempts, stealing, etc..) for a 16 year old middle class kid. I didn't use any for 3 years and since then I've used it probably 5 or 6 times in the past 3 years since then.