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Opioids Anyone ever hibernate through withdrawal with seroquel?

Frosta

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
48
Location
Ottawa Ont.
An icy friend of mine has been attempting to kick an opiate habit for a few weeks now. Her dose is currently at 1-200mgs of morphine a day, or 16-30mgs of hydromorphone. Occasionally she will have a point of heroine but it's get seldom due to it's cost. She's been wired for about 6 months now and would like to quit. She recently tried to cold turkey around Christmas because she feels she's not far down the line enough to really mess up her body if she goes cold turkey. She considered tapering then jumping off, but spacing out 100mgs of morphine into 5 20mg sessions is not very good for her veins. She considered tapering the oral route, but oxies are costly here. She recently got her hands on a tonne of seroquel and wants to book off time from work and just sleep through it. She ponders of seroquel is effective enough to knock her out for a whole withdrawal considering she has no tolerance to seroquel. She would appreciate any tips. She feels as long as she gets passed the sickness she'll be okay, she has been mainly just a maintenance user and feels she doesn't even want the high anymore. The only thing that makes her cave is when the sickness becomes intense. She did make it to day 3 but couldn't bare it. I read that the worst is over after 72 hours but all of her friends who have kicked say she'll need a minimum of 5 days. She's excited to finally get this annoyance out of her way. An estimated timeline of her withdrawal based up length of using as well as dosage amount would be appreciated. :)
 
I'm guessing you cant get any subutex or suboxone so my next serious suggestion is to buy some loperamide from the pharmacy or grocery store. It takes away like at least 75% of the withdraws. She prob will only need like 2 days off work if that. Tell her to take it for a week and she should be alright. Some people need more than others but I usually take 30mg a day(15 pills). Its a miracle drug and its 100% legal. I cant believe more people don't know about it.

Ive taken some seroquel while detoxing before and I still couldn't sleep. I didn't take a whole lot though but when I take it while I'm clean it knocks me out. I remember people used to be prescribed it while I was in prison and we would be so bored that we would take it and see who could stay up the longest. But even if you take a lot of seroquel I don't think its possible to sleep through your withdraw but maybe someone on here has done it. The closest Ive heard is taking a lot of xanax which makes you pass out too.
 
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THe only way to sleep thru withdraw is to have micheal jackson's doctor but i think he's in prison so good luck with that.
 
I have "hibernated" through opiate withdrawal with seroquel and clonidine. It is actually one of the best ways to do it IME. When I have done it I have already tapered down my dose of heroin and/or oxy, and then after taking a final dose of 10 or 20mgs of oxy (or less than .05 of heroin) I just used the seroquel/clonidine combo, along with some diphenhydramine (which is OTC so anybody can get it).

Tapering with suboxone or methadone can sometimes complicate things, and if done wrong will just prolong the inevitable withdrawal, only minimizing it instead of eliminating it, which is why I choose to just get it over with by not bothering with any other opiates.

For me, it is day 2,3, and 4 without opiates that are the worst, day 3 being the peak. Withdrawal comes on at different times depending on how much you use, and how many times you have kicked. The first time I experienced withdrawals, the didn't start until almost 72 hours after I stopped using, and they peaked the following day, so basically day 3, 4, and 5 were the worst of it. Each time I kicked they seemed to come of quicker, until they began to start about 24 hours after my last dose.

Good luck.
 
She was using Laperomide with her last cold turkey and still couldn't do it. She'll be combining Laperomide and seroquel with round 2. She also has diphenhydramine and T1s. There is suboxone here but it's like 100 bucks for the script. She is going to see a clinic tomorrow to obtain clonidine as well. Glad to hear it was successful.
 
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I forgot to mention my doses of seroquel. I usually used 50mgs at night, and found that increasing the dose did not help with sleep. Some people say that it is more effective for sleep in lower doses, and the higher doses are more for its effectiveness in psychological treatment. I found this to be true when 100mgs seemed to do less for sleep than 50mgs did. I used .2-.3 of clonidine along with the 50mgs of seroquel, and 25-50mgs of benadryl (diphenhydramine). There are other OTC antihistamine meds that may be better for sleep, but I have not tried any.
 
Try to get ahold of some gabapentin, that really helps a lot. Benzo's will work a lot better for this strategy, but they're addictive in there owne more dangerous rite, so If the seroquel can knock you out go for it. I might also in addition try and get an anti histamine, like Benadryl or promethazine.
 
I tried seroquel during opioid withdrawal once and it made the RLS unbearable, so this was not going to work for me,
 
I tried seroquel during opioid withdrawal once and it made the RLS unbearable, so this was not going to work for me,

Clonidine helps with RLS, which is why that combination probably worked so well for me. I literally laid in bed and was really drowsy, so stayed there through most of the withdrawal. The clonidine made me very lightheaded, especially when standing up, so it was even a task to go upstairs to use the bathroom. It is also why I only used it at night, and recommend anyone using it to do the same.
 
Try to taper it a bit first to increase chances of success. T1s are of no use here.

Clonidine is a beast in combatting opiate withdrawal.

The seroquel withdrawal method has been used with much success before. TCAs work too, but may just complicate things.
 
Yo I would really just use a strong anti histamine like promethazine instead, serequel is a dopamine and seretonin antagonist, and I talked to someone at my outpatient who attempted to do this and he said it made his withdrawal worse because he felt sedated but still couldn't sleep, and like someone else said it made RLS worse, though clonodine would help with that part. I'd really though just try and knock myself out with Benadryl, promethazine or dxm.
 
i guess it wouldn't hurt to use the seroquel. buck up and bite the bullet.

you can use loperamide or other drugs but it really wont help that much, just prolong the inevitable.

loperamide can be just as addictive with extremely painful withdrawal symptoms.

be careful with that and good luck. 6 months isn't as bad as 2 years... or longer... do it before it's only worse.
 
Seroquel can help withdrawals in conjunction with other meds (loperamide, benzos, clonidine, etc) but on its own, I wouldn't expect to just "sleep thru the detox".. For me, seroquel makes RLS extremely bad, and if even remotely dopesick it makes me feel like a ton of shit but still can't sleep.

It may help you, but don't expect seroquel alone to get you thru withdrawal. I've had my most success just doing it cold turkey, since relying on 12 different meds to get you off opiates just always led me to relapse.

Everyone is different, though.
 
I can say from recent experience that Clonidine does not always help RLS during opioid withdrawal. I found that Clonidine combined with benzo's was the only way I could sleep; and even then only 30-45 minutes at a time, and then I'd wake up from my legs kicking and if someone massaged my legs for a few minutes I'd fall back asleep for another 30-45 minutes, rinse/repeat.

Aside from drugs mentioned by other posters, (and if anyone mentioned these and I missed it I apologize), there is the new 'gold standard' RX for RLS: Requip (Ropinirole), though I don't know anyone who has been prescribed it or what the side effects are or whether it helps opioid withdrawal RLS specifically or if it can be safely mixed with other common RX and OTC withdrawal aids. While I cannot attest to the efficacy or play down the safety concerns, Quinine used to be available OTC for RLS, is sometimes prescribed off label for RLS by doctors, and is still available OTC as an herbal extract (Cinchona Bark x6 generally) with other herbs and extracts for RLS- in the same aisle as OTC pain medication for back and joint pain. Again, Quinine in and of itself has the possibility for negative (i.e. harmful) side effects and the other herbs and extracts within said OTC pills would have to be further researched to decide whether or not they can be used safely and effectively with other opioid withdrawal aids.

The 'Sleeping Cure' in it's furthest state was tried back in the 1950's (possibly into the early 1960's). William S. Burroughs wrote about trying it; I believe he documents his experiment with it in his "Letter From A Master Addict To Dangerous Drugs" written in 1956 and soon after published in the British Journal of Addiction Vol.53 #2.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/ehn/Web/release/BurroughsLetter.html

I have undergone ten "cures" in the course of which all these drugs were used. I have taken quick reductions, slow reductions, prolonged sleep, apomorphine, antihistamines, a French system involving a worthless product known as "amorphine," everything but shock. (I would be interested to hear results of further experiments with shock treatment on somebody else.) The success of any treatment depends on the degree and duration of addiction, the stage of withdrawal (drugs which are effective in late or light withdrawal can be disastrous in the acute phase) individual symptoms, health, age, etc. A method of treatment might be completely ineffective at one time, but give excellent results at another. Or a treatment that does me no good may help someone else. I do not presume to pass any final judgements, only to report my own reactions to various drugs and methods of treatment.

. . .

Prolonged Sleep.--The theory sounds good. You go to sleep and wake up cured. Industrial doses of chloral hydrate, barbiturates, thorazine, only produced a nightmare state of semi-consciousness. Withdrawal of sedation, after 5 days, occasioned a severe shock. Symptoms of acute morphine deprivation supervened. The end result was a combined syndrome of unparalleled horror. No cure I ever took was as painful as this allegedly painless method. The cycle of sleep and wakefulness is always deeply disturbed during withdrawal. To further disturb it with massive sedation seems contraindicated to say the least. Withdrawal of morphine is sufficiently traumatic without adding to it withdrawal of barbiturates. After two weeks in the hospital (five days sedation, ten days "rest") I was still so weak that I fainted when I tried to walk up a slight incline. I consider prolonged sleep the worst possible method of treating withdrawal.

Seroquel can be used and as far as I know is used in certain inpatient rehab facilities for detox. However, using it outpatient let alone at home under no medical supervision is not wise to say the very least. For an outpatient, at home detox from opioids, Clonidine (Or Lofexadine if in the UK), and a Benzodiazepine (or Benzodiazepines) are pretty much necessary to make it just bearable. There are studies showing the addition of a weak opioid (specifically Propoxyphene, but also something like Codeine or Dihydrocodeine) in conjunction with the above medications allows for less Clonidine and less Benzodiazepines to be necessary for patient comfort (and those weaker opioids would be tapered over the course of 3 or 4 days to nothing; during the worst of the acute withdrawal phase). I can dig up the article that best outlines this method of treatment if you like- its been posted on BL before.

I've never used Loperamide as a WD aid, but enough people swear by it and since it is OTC and very cheap it's worth having and trying regardless. Plus symptoms of withdrawal vary by addict, as Burroughs wrote, that certain people experience severe nausea and vomiting while others (like me) suffer none; etc. In these cases drugs like Meclizine (OTC as 'Dramamine II') can help. Some anti-histamines like Diphenhydramine and Doxylamine help certain people sleep or slow their rapid heartbeat; while in others it excacerbates symptoms of withdrawal (Diphenhydramine makes my RLS turn into Restless Body Syndrome during withdrawal)- while other anti-histamines like Phenyltoloxamine* and Cyclizine help me sleep and take away the CNS stimulation (*I have mentioned this drug many times on BL, and have used it hundreds of times during days when I had run out of Methadone and it worked great; gave me back my appetite, let me sleep, and even in instances of early withdrawal from Methadone provided a mood lift- as euphoria is a 'side effect' of certain anti-histamines at times; however, when I recently did my stint of detox to get on Buprenorphine, I found that the company that makes Percogesic and Percogesic Maximum Strength- the latter being the product containing 60 pills of Phenyltoloxamine and APAP - had completely changed their formula that it now only contains Magnesium. . . so it appears, in the US anyway, Phenyltoloxamine is no longer available OTC :().

Keep in mind, for your friend, that acute withdrawal times vary by person and 'the worst of it' being over after approximately 72 hours following the last dose doesn't mean that by day 5 she will be up and about feeling good and eating well etc. Length of habit, drugs used, amount of said drugs being used, etc plus personal biology all play into how a persons withdrawal syndrome will effect them. It would be very naive to think that after a few days of hell she'll be back to 'normal'. Addiction doesn't work that way, and abstinence only programs do not have a good success rate to begin with and those numbers get worse when you add in the persons environment, whether they will still see the people they bought from or used with on a regular basis, if they go into a treatment program of some kind whether 12 step or seek the aid of a therapist, doctor, etc to get to the root of why they became addicted to opioids, etc.

Reckitt-Benckiser and state and Federal government programs will pay for Buprenorphine treatment, if she is unemplyed or makes less than $20,000 a year and doesn't have health insurance, Reckitt-Benckiser has a form the sub doc fills out and faxes them that will pay for a whole months supply of Buprenorphine for her for free. If she does have insurance, Reckitt-Benckiser has a $40 off coupon for the new sublingual film Suboxone that can be used in conjunction with health insurance at the pharmacy, and like I said most local governments plus Federal programs related to Medicaid and Medicaid-like programs will pay for most if not all of Methadone or Buprenorphine.

My personal recommendation would be to get on a free Methadone or Buprenorphine program for a 21 day detoxification followed by prescriptions of Clonidine, Benzodiazepine(s) and if needed additional withdrawal aides by either the sub doc or urgent care doc.
 
Loperamide for sleep for sure. It takes around two hours or longer to kick in for most people, so I recommend taking one dose right before bed, so it kicks in during sleep. I'd say 12mg spread throughout a day should work for a larger habit, and about half of that would work for a smaller habit. Three doses per day is the ideal way to break it up IMO. Start low and work up, and remember it will take over two hours for the drug to begin to give any relief.
 
Definately try switching the benedryl to Doxylamine IMO its much much more effective for anxiety/sleep, as well as having fewer and milder side effects even in higher doses. If she could get some benzos or zopiclone or something that would greatly help as well. Just not to many or that can become another addiction on its own. Like others have said though everyone reacts differently so best would be for her to try both and see which she finds to help her more, then stick with that one.
 
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Definately try switching the benedryl to Doxylamine IMO its much much more effective for anxiety/sleep, as well as having fewer and milder side effects even in higher doses.

This. Benadryl can cause RLS all on its own for me and combined with kicking dope it turns into restless "body syndrome" like someone has mentioned. Doxylamine tends not to do this.
 
She was forced into detox by her employer (the OP). What's insane is they don't ("can't") prescribe her any meds there to help WD. But I am here for her :)

A little input from me: Diphenhydramine is definitely an RLS-inducer.
 
Problem with Seroquel and other anti-psychotics is that if they don't actually knock you out you get into what me and mates call a 'monged' state - really horrible, where you are sedated and can't talk or really function, but can't sleep either, and coupled with withdrawal it would be even worse. If you want to sleep through it, get some Zopiclone - IMHO he best sleeper out there.
 
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