Any vegans in the house?

[asecin]

changed, ignorance is bliss

 

[delta_9]

depends. some i can, some i cannot. it can be various reasons

Then why make the blanket statement that "they are useless"? 8(

 

[asecin]

Then why make the blanket statement that "they are useless"? 8(

Quote:
zeaxanthin
Present in many dark, leafy vegetables.


are u speaking of just this one dude ? yeh most sources of the nutrients mentioned are not possible for me to get. and yes, dark leafy vegetables have chemicals that are either antinutrients or give me allergy or w/e. BUT, i can have some on occasion. just like meat, vegetables should not be eaten in excess. the least for me and other people who are more sensitive. i bet some people can eat tons of plant food full of phytic acid, oxilates, tannins (all of which are bad for humans and some can cause cancer when in excess) but sensitive people like me and im sure many others, feel unwell quick to continue munching on them. now, im sure you are healthy and you can afford it tho, again do not try to impose your personal experience with them with "healthy lifestyle" to everyone else. every person is different.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

So what DO you eat, asecin? You've said you don't believe in eating meat in large amounts. You've said you don't believe in eating veggies in large amounts.

If nothing is allowed in large amounts, I'm just wondering what makes up the bigger portions of your diet?

 

[delta_9]

Phytic Acid -

Cancer inhibition by inositol hexaphosphate (IP6) and inositol: from laboratory to clinic. Journal of Nutrition. 2003 November;133:3778S-3784S.
Phytic acid seems only to affect cancer cells and not normal cells. Phytic acid and inositol improves the effectiveness of chemotherapy. More studies are required to determine optimal dosage, effectiveness and safety of phytic acid.

The biochemical changes associated with phytic Acid on induced breast proliferative lesions in rats: preliminary findings. Cancer Biology and Therapy. 2006 September;5(9):1129-33 Previous studies shown that phytic acid inhibits or prevents the growth of neoplasms. The aim of this study was to investigate if phytic acid has an effect on tumorigenesis by inducing apoptosis and inhibiting of oxidative stress. The in-vivo test was carried out on rats which were treated with the carcinogen dimethylbenz(a)anthracene (DMBA). The researchers found that the administration of phytic removed the benign proliferative breast changes. Phytic acid significantly decreased trichostatin A and nitric oxide levels and increased apoptosis. The study concluded that the administration of phytic acid reversed the proliferative effects of the carcinogen DMBA, and could have a protective effect.

Protective effect of phytic acid on oxidative DNA damage with reference to cancer chemoprevention. Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications. 2001 November 2;288 (3):552-7 According to K Midorikawa and colleagues, phytic acid is one of the most promising cancer chemopreventive agents. The aim of this study was the determine the anticancer mechanism of phytic acid. They found that phytic acid inhibited the oxidative damage of hydrogen peroxide, but that phytic acid did not directly scavenge hydrogen peroxide. Phytic acid did not cause damage to DNA. They concluded that phytic acid acts as an antioxidant and anticancer agent by chelating metals.

Antitumor activity of phytic acid (inositol hexaphosphate) in murine transplanted and metastatic fibrosarcoma, a pilot study.Cancer Letters. 1992 July 31;65(1):9-13 In vivo tests have shown that phytic acid exerts a antitumor effect on experimental colon cancer. The purpose of this study was to determine the antitumor activity of phytic acid on other experimental tumor models, such as murine fibrosarcoma. The researchers found that the intraperitoneal injection of mice with phytic acid reduced the growth of subcutaneously transplanted fibrosarcoma and prolonged survival. Phytic acid could have a potential use in the therapy of cancer.

Suppression of colonic cancer by dietary phytic acid. Nutrition and cancer. 1993;19(1):11-9In this article the flavour producer Tastemaker (this company no longer exists) suggests that the health benefits of fiber maybe be attributed to phytic acid. Epidemiological studies have shown that the consumption of food fibers is linked to lower frequency of colon cancer. However there is also strong evidence that this protective effect may be caused by phytic acid, which is present in high amounts in high fiber products such cereal grains, nuts and seeds. Phytic acid forms complexes with metals, such as iron, which cause oxidative damage.

Also to shorten this already long post please see as well -

Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 2004 Jun;68 (6):1379-81
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1983 December;38 (6):835-42
Digestive Diseases Sciences. 2006 December 12
Indian Journal of Experimental Biology. 2004 February;42(2):179-85

Tannins -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9759559
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21232161
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21232161
Also, is you are able, please see ' Unravelling the conundrum of tannins in animal nutrition and health'. I do not have an account with this site so I cannot access it.


asecin, with all respect, PLEASE start doing your homework before you post here in HL.

 

[asecin]

delta9, im not gojng to do your homework for you.

search for negative effects on tannins and phytic acid, then post them together with the positive. and you have reality which is WHILE THEY PREVENT SOME DISEASES, THEY ARE UNIVERSALLY CONSIDERED ANTINUTRIENTS.

google this: Phytic acid has a strong binding affinity to important minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc. When a mineral binds to phytic acid, it becomes insoluble, precipitates and will be nonabsorbable in the intestines. This process can therefore contribute to mineral deficiencies in people whose diets rely on these foods for their mineral intake

and

then

google this: Tannins have traditionally been considered antinutritional. Tannins have been shown to precipitate proteins. In sensitive individuals, a large intake of tannins may cause bowel irritation, kidney irritation, liver damage, irritation of the stomach and gastrointestinal pain. With the exception of tea, long-term and/or excessive use of herbs containing high concentrations of tannins is not recommended. A correlation has been made between esophogeal or nasal cancer in humans and regular consumption of certain herbs with high tannin concentrations
Tannins interfere with iron absorption through a complex formation with iron when it is in the gastrointestinal lumen which decreases the bioavailability of iron. There is an important difference in the way in which the phenolic compounds interact with different hydroxylation patterns (gallic acid, catechin, chlorogenic acid) and the effect on iron absorption. If ingested in excessive quantities, tannins inhibit the absorption of minerals such as iron which may, if prolonged, lead to anemia. etc more pages of text for google



ps guys im enjoying how delta9 concetrates only on fractions of positive effects and NEVER POSTS NEGATIVES.

 

[delta_9]

If the burden of proof of positive effects is on me(which I suppose at this point it is), then the burden of proof of negative effects is on you. Do not tell or expect me to do your work for you. If you truly believe in something then back it up with evidence like I do.

Why do you refuse to do this? It is not at all difficult.

Instead you result to petty insults and half assed attepmts at steering this thread off topic Why?

Did that last temp ban of yours not make you think maybe your posting style needs revision? Because apparently the staff does.

concentrates only on fractions of positive effects and NEVER POSTS NEGATIVES.

Excuse me for not having enough time to search through tens of thousands of pubmed articles and textbooks

The only negative I see here is your attitude. Once again you have turned me off to the HL forum(which I truly enjoy btw)

If you absolutely must continue with this nonsense, please do it via PM. This thread is not the place for this kind of rubbish. The HL Mods do not deserve to have to clean this up.

 

[asecin]

So what DO you eat, asecin? You've said you don't believe in eating meat in large amounts. You've said you don't believe in eating veggies in large amounts.

If nothing is allowed in large amounts, I'm just wondering what makes up the bigger portions of your diet?

the least you eat, the better basically.

 

[asecin]

If the burden of proof of positive effects is on me(which I suppose at this point it is), then the burden of proof of negative effects is on you. Do not tell or expect me to do your work for you. If you truly believe in something then back it up with evidence like I do.

Why do you refuse to do this? It is not at all difficult.

Instead you result to petty insults and half assed attepmts at steering this thread off topic Why?

Did that last temp ban of yours not make you think maybe your posting style needs revision? Because apparently the staff does.

Excuse me or not having enough time to search through tens of thousands of pubmed articles and textbooks

dude wtf you talking about. i just took the vital most important universally known things about phytic acid and tannins and posted basic info for you to search google. copy and paste to google and for your own good find more info on that. i wont go through ncbi articles cuz a lot do show postive but also alot do show negative effects and im not getting paid to do it since i have other stuff to research that i am encouraged and awarded for. so just be honest, find negatives and positives and compare.

 

[delta_9]

^Yes, but only AFTER promopted to do so. ( The edit logs prove this). You had no intention of posting this from the get go, only when backed into a corner...

i wont go through ncbi articles

Ignorance is truly bliss :D


...At this point I feel this is getting out of hand. This will be my last post in this thread. If anyone has a question please dont hesitate to PM me but I feel quite bad for having done this to HL and it's staff.

asecin if you want to feel as though you've bullied me out of this thread that's fine. Ego is important after all.

 

[asecin]

what ? i have bullied you ? and what ego ? im not into this. i just mentioned you never compared negative and positive of the chemicals mentioned. you are not COMFORTABLE doing so obviously. for those who missed it, and you specifically, do google on those basic well known writen paragraphs:


google this: Phytic acid has a strong binding affinity to important minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc. When a mineral binds to phytic acid, it becomes insoluble, precipitates and will be nonabsorbable in the intestines. This process can therefore contribute to mineral deficiencies in people whose diets rely on these foods for their mineral intake

and

then

google this: Tannins have traditionally been considered antinutritional. Tannins have been shown to precipitate proteins. In sensitive individuals, a large intake of tannins may cause bowel irritation, kidney irritation, liver damage, irritation of the stomach and gastrointestinal pain. With the exception of tea, long-term and/or excessive use of herbs containing high concentrations of tannins is not recommended. A correlation has been made between esophogeal or nasal cancer in humans and regular consumption of certain herbs with high tannin concentrations
Tannins interfere with iron absorption through a complex formation with iron when it is in the gastrointestinal lumen which decreases the bioavailability of iron. There is an important difference in the way in which the phenolic compounds interact with different hydroxylation patterns (gallic acid, catechin, chlorogenic acid) and the effect on iron absorption. If ingested in excessive quantities, tannins inhibit the absorption of minerals such as iron which may, if prolonged, lead to anemia. etc more pages of text for google


since delta9 denies adding anything negative to his so loved plant based chemicals, im sure others will care enough to research it themselves.

 

[Changed]

the least you eat, the better basically.

what about all these nutrients we need to get?

 

[asecin]

what about all these nutrients we need to get?

have you checked the dietery needs of what is accepted all around the world ? the usa has different standards from lets say some asian, or south american countries. FDA says you need DV of each mineral or vitamin as percent we accept as permited. truth is, people all around the world might not get any vitamin or mineral at about 100% as accepted by usa standards and live well. BUT, then usa depicts starving people from really poor malnourished countries like from SOME african countries and SOME parts of asia and you think "wow im so happy im in usa having so much food to munch on!".

changed, since you are cool about, ill try to find this article about an african tribe that eats same food daily for years and lives really healthy while missing on important nutrients. i hope i find it tho, its old and lost somewhere.

 

[Changed]

Yeah, I figured that would be your response. An ex-gf told me how the DV% in the USA is ridiculously higher than anywhere else in the world. I wonder if these people prosper on a less than ideal 'USA diet' simply because we don't actually need all these vitamins, or whether it is something different; say, these people are used to eating less and their body's have adjusted over hundreds or thousands of years; or, maybe it is a range of different things like climate, drinking water, exercise, lifestyle, etc... that somehow result in health and longevity that surpasses that of the US.

 

[asecin]

what ex gf told u ? are you mocking me ? look man, do as you please, dont bug me anymore

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

thats funny cuz I think they lowball most all vitamins and nutrients...but Im eating for physical extraordinariness (lol) so perhaps I am doing more physical stuff than you are doing and thus you need less.

Im definitely doing more than sitting under a shade tree watching yams grow

 

[Changed]

what ex gf told u ? are you mocking me ? look man, do as you please, dont bug me anymore

what is your problem? the entire fucking post was serious.

 

[modern buddha]

Isn't it strange how just about everything in the United States seems a little... off compared to the rest of the world?

We think we need more, more, more so we can be "better" than everyone else. The USA is the top of the food chain in economics (for right now, at least) and this has really influenced the egos of Americans. I truly believe we simply cannot get all of the RDA of vitamins without the influence of some supplements and, the kicker: we're all okay with doing extra things to get that daily amount we "need".

I think a vegan diet can be just as healthy as a vegetarian or even omnivore diet. In some cases, it can be MORE healthful, with the general unhealthy shift in the American diet.

I hear so many people say "well, what about B12? What about iron? You're deficient in those vitamins!". The truth is, I know I'm completely healthy without a "sufficient" intake of those vitamins and minerals. It's just another pressure to be a cooperating citizen, being mocked in this type of way.

Also, a little understanding goes a long way to being open-minded.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

Isn't it strange how just about everything in the United States seems a little... off compared to the rest of the world?

We think we need more, more, more so we can be "better" than everyone else. The USA is the top of the food chain in economics (for right now, at least) and this has really influenced the egos of Americans. I truly believe we simply cannot get all of the RDA of vitamins without the influence of some supplements and, the kicker: we're all okay with doing extra things to get that daily amount we "need".

I think a vegan diet can be just as healthy as a vegetarian or even omnivore diet. In some cases, it can be MORE healthful, with the general unhealthy shift in the American diet.

I hear so many people say "well, what about B12? What about iron? You're deficient in those vitamins!". The truth is, I know I'm completely healthy without a "sufficient" intake of those vitamins and minerals. It's just another pressure to be a cooperating citizen, being mocked in this type of way.

Also, a little understanding goes a long way to being open-minded.

some people want to be better than just getting by health-wise. Some people want to be extra-ordinary physically. For these people they will make it a priority to get extra intake of vitamins and minerals (mainly from whole foods). And plenty of macronutrients (so they are in a near constant state of anabolism).

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Isn't it strange how just about everything in the United States seems a little... off compared to the rest of the world?

We think we need more, more, more so we can be "better" than everyone else.

What's really strange to me is how many Americans, who have access to so much.. who have this world of amazing foods at their fingertips... still eat at a the drive thru or out of a microwave... when many of them could afford to be eating an all organic, nutrient rich meal plan. Just because they are lazy and don't want to learn to prepare food.

It blows my mind...