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Any theorys about DiPT's (auditory) mode of action?

Jamshyd

Jamshyd

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To my knowledge, there has not been any formal research done on this by now (I would definitely appreciate if anyone could point me out to one if I'm wrong).

But I guess most of us kow that there is an almost shocking quality that DiPT (and only DiPT) posesses: A rather predictable but hard to difine shift in auditory perception. Here is what I gathered from my own experiences and from the experiences of others (friends and online reports):

- The auditory effect builds up as the psychedelic effects (at least for the subjects who are sensitive to them) plateau, and it goes on for a while after the trip ends.

- The duration and intensity of the auditory effect is highly dependant on method of administration and dose. It seems to be Oral > Rectal > Nasal > Smoked/IV. With oral many people report that the auditory effects linger to the next day, long after the trip is over. On the other hand, with nasal/rectal it seems to go for a few hours after the trip ends.

- The slow buildup and slow elimination of the auditory effects seems, to me, like it might be caused by a metabolite of DiPT, not the drug itself. <purely (or poorly :D) my own conjecture. I type it as the last of my DiPT leaves me.. haha.>

- Also pretty widely known - none of the (known) substituted DiPT compounds (5-MeO-DiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, and 4-AcO-DiPT) produce that effect. Sure, they may produce sound distortions just like any other psychedelic, but the DiPT effect is consistent and unique.

- To add to that, no other known N-isopropyl tryptamines (MiPT and substitutions thereof) have this quality, and neither does the N-propyl family. Discussed more thoroughly in the TiHKAL entry for EiPT.

I would like to hear any theories that you people may have. My friend is a psychologist, and his main idea is that the drug seems to affect sounds that have significant memory tied to them more so than other sounds. I think that sounds interesting and would love to hear any intelligent ideas about this :).

Mods feel free to move to PD.. I just posted here because people here seem to have a good background in science.
 
5-MeO-DIPT definitely produces an audio effect as well that can not be dismissed as simple psychedelic sound distortion. It is not quite the same as that of DiPT, but definitely along the same lines. I am not good at putting into words how one could describe the audio effects of 5-MeO-DiPT, and how they differ/compare to that of DiPT. In fact, my memory is so faded I am going to dig up my notes....

Perhaps the most fascinating effect I experienced were audio distortions reminiscent of what DiPT is said to produce. I first noticed these distortions around the third hour while listening to the Grateful Dead's 'Anthem of the Sun', an album I am very familiar with. The music would change its pitch, both up and down, without actually slowing down or speeding up. It just generally sounded 'wrong' and 'off'. I found this effect both interesting and disturbing.
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That was from an experiment I had back in 2001 with 11mg of 5-MeO-DiPT. Also, this is mentioned in THIHAL...

(with 12 mg, orally) "There was a very strange, almost paranoid session of listening to music, about an hour and a half into it. The program was a program of Irish music called "The Thistle and Shamrock" but I had paid no attention to the announcement. What was being played were three nativity pieces with song and words, from strange places. What I heard were three distant, fraudulent selections with generically meaningless words, mumbled so as to sound authentic. Everything was faked. It was "hearts of space" music in the worst possible taste. My neutral observer was completely taken in by it all, and quite enjoyed it. It turned out that I was wrong, the music was strange but of good quality. It was my interpretation that was screwed up."
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and

there is again some musical sound distortions that remind one of the actions of the analogue without the 5-methoxy group, DIPT. With DIPT, there was a physical harmonic distortion of the sounds that were heard. With 5-MeO-DIPT (again, two isopropyl groups on the basic nitrogen) these perversions involved musical character and interpretation. None of the comments suggested harmonic structure. I do believe that these two drugs, having such an intimate structural resemblance but with their different distortions of music interpretation, would be rewarding to explore more fully with the view of objectively defining these changes.
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With DiPT, the audio properties seem to be consistent at any dosage. With 5-MeO-DiPT, they seem to only appear at higher dosages...at least according to my personal experience, (6mg and 8mg produced no sound changes, but 11mg produced strong sound changes) as well as the experiences I've learned of from other experimenters via private discussion.

I think the last comments describe how they differed for me...with DiPT, some things would sound normal and fine, and other things would be off and crazy. THe distortion was not linier. On 100mg, a Jefferson Airplane record had normal drums and bass, but the guitar and vocals were either totally out of tune, or simply unrecognizable.

With 5-MeO-DiPT, the recording sounded 'tinny' (lots of treble, bass tones removed) and as though the record player was spinning a bit too fast.
 
- Also pretty widely known - none of the (known) substituted DiPT compounds (5-MeO-DiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, and 4-AcO-DiPT) produce that effect. Sure, they may produce sound distortions just like any other psychedelic, but the DiPT effect is consistent and unique.

- To add to that, no other known N-isopropyl tryptamines (MiPT and substitutions thereof) have this quality, and neither does the N-propyl family. Discussed more thoroughly in the TiHKAL entry for EiPT.
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Not true :). For some reason, I am *VERY* sensitive to this particular audio effect, I cannot take DiPT orally at too high of a dose (really, I dislike any dose because of this now) because my sound is so drastically altered for 24-48 hours.

Actually, all of these drugs produce a similar "downshifting" (but like you said its not as simple as that) of pitch (just the ones i've tried before) in order of strongest to weakest: DiPT, 5-MeO-DiPT, 4-HO(or AcO)-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT.

I think I notice this because i'm just so damn ultra sensitive to this effect for some reason.. but it seems like so far all tryptamines with an isopropyl group do this.

- The auditory effect builds up as the psychedelic effects (at least for the subjects who are sensitive to them) plateau, and it goes on for a while after the trip ends.

- The duration and intensity of the auditory effect is highly dependant on method of administration and dose. It seems to be Oral > Rectal > Nasal > Smoked/IV. With oral many people report that the auditory effects linger to the next day, long after the trip is over. On the other hand, with nasal/rectal it seems to go for a few hours after the trip ends.
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Yeah I agree it seems that the audio effects are separate from the psychedelic effects totally, always starting sometime after the psychedelic effects have started and lingering on longer.

One night I took about 10mg 5-MeO-DiPT, but every so many hours, i would bump it back up with another 5mg's. I kept taking an extra 5 to 10 mg's every few hours to boost my trip up - well the pitch just kept getting lower and lower and I experienced nearly the same type of non-linear real low distortion DiPT produces by the end of the night after the trip. This lasted well into the next day after much sleep.

I do notice it a little with 4-HO-DiPT, but actually, moreso with 4-HO/AcO-MiPT. Its not that strong, but always catches my attention, impossible for me not to notice. Usually its just little things, like my familiar cell phone beeps, or the microwave beep.

No way i'll knowing take DiPT orally again - it just lasts waaay too long.. but smoking it is OK, I have found the psychedelic effects smoking it WAY better anyway (I highly recommend mixing DMT and DiPT!!), and also it takes a while (5-10 minutes) after the whole smoked trip is over for any audio effects, then sometimes its real sudden, just all of a sudden a huge drop in audio pitch etc. Even smoked though this lasts hours for me and it sucks :/.

I'll guess that MiPT and EiPT will do the same thing with me.. hopefully i'll be trying MiPT sometime soon (smoked) so i'll report.
 
Being a classical musician by trade, I am very curious about this, and also will never consider taking DIPT myself for the reasons suggested by yaesutom's post, because any change in my hearing perception would be disastrous.

I've never noticed any lingering trouble from 4-substituted DIPT or MIPT however.
 
Does anyone have a receptor binding assay for DiPT (y'know, it's affinity at all the 5HT receptors - and others - a bit like the ones for things like savinorin A where it was tried against a barrage of 50-odd receptors). I'm just curious to see if it has an affinity for any receptor than the other tryptamines don't. If it doesn't then it gets a lot more complicated. It'd be interesting to do a PET scan with C-13 radiolabelled DiPT to see if it accumulates in the auditory cortex (or anywhere else associated with auditory processing, integration or concious perception)
 
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Jamshyd said:
My friend is a psychologist, and his main idea is that the drug seems to affect sounds that have significant memory tied to them more so than other sounds.
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What was the impetus for this thought?
 
All I can find on the PDSP is
5-HT2A, N,N-DIISOPROPYLTRYPTAMINE, 5-HYDROXY, Ki 615.000000, 3H-KETANSERIN, BOVINE CORTEX, MCKENNA, ET AL., 1989
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.
 
human said:
What was the impetus for this thought?
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I can't believe I forgot this thread!! Sorry I'm on a bump-my-own-thread frenzy, haha.

I am actually not sure what my friend means with this theory. I will ask him and get back to you.

F&B (and anyone else knowledgeable in SARs): Are you able to deduct anything from the info provided so far?

Also, is anyone aware of any new discoveries concerning DiPT? Even if it is just a measure of binding affinity...etc.

---

I find it interesting that many people here experience auditory distortions on DiPT-substituted compounds. I seriously could not stand 5-MeO-DiPT at 10mg and decided not to go any further. At that level, I did not experience anything auditory...

Please feel free to provide any new personal anecdotes :)
 
At 15mg of 5-MeO-DiPT, I felt a distinct audio shift. Everything would sound lower then what it was. I didn't notice it at first, but when i really thought about it, i could tell something was off.
 
Having pored over Shulgin's words and many bluelighters' posts regarding DIPT, I have a suspicion that the effect has something to do with the way spatial relationships and movement affect sound. I don't remember the physics behind the Doppler effect, but my theory is that the effects of DIPT are related somehow.

Another idea I've had is that perhaps the brain uses some sort of an algorithm (or something along those lines) to interpret musical pitches and that if so, perhaps DIPT affects this process.
 
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I don't have any specific ideas on how it might work, nor am I qualified to do so. That last sentence made it seem like I know what I'm talking about, which really isn't the case.

What is more interesting than how DIPT affects pitch recognition the fact that it does so in the first place, and the receptor binding studies that Shulgin suggests would no doubt be highly interesting!
 
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I am DYING to see PiPT (n-propyl,n-isopropyltryptamine) synthed. Why did no one try it? is it chemically difficult?

I wonder if such compound may shed some light on the auditory phenomenon?
 
In my experience with DiPT (two full trips), I've found the change in auditory perception to be directly proportional to the dose, but not linearally - it becomes drastic pretty quickly, and then increased dosages don't dramatically increase the effects, but they do increase them somewhat. I find the mental effects with the right stimuli present to be quite profound, but I agree that the sound alteration lasts far longer than the trip itself, 24 hours at least.

As for the mechanism, it felt very much to me as if the muscle that flexes and opens up in your inner ear when you yawn was being constantly fixed into a different position than normal. During the come-up it was fluttering rapidly and once the effects set in I felt a distinct ringing in my ear as if I was hearing complete silence, and it's as if certain frequencies and sound wave timbres were being entirely cut off due to this physical "yawning muscle" flexing or whatever it was. My theory is that this makes it so that only certain overtones and other parts of the sound reaching my ears were heard, which accounts for the dramatic and often non-linear change in pitch experienced.

I found low (in pitch) sounds to sound follow and almost toneless, but more like multiple tones at once. High tones were accompanied by chirping and wire-tension noises, and mid-range tones were altered in unpredictable ways, such as human voices sounding much, much deeper and mechanical, like a bad sci-fi movie robot voice, or a giant talking frog. Additionally, I can constantly hear all manner of quiet background noises that are very "tryptamine" in quality and I suspect canj only be heard because of the almost total elimination of the normal, constant background noise of the planet. or rather, these noises were what was left of those noises.

Anyway, that's my theory for the reason behind the sound change - a physical reason, this flexing or alternate positioning of some muscle(s) in the inner ear which block certain ranges of audio waves and perhaps allow certain other ranges in that we cannot normally hear. I've really got no theory as to why every sound is dramatically lowered in pitch, though.
 
Well, there is evidence that serotonin plays some role in the inner ear, and it's my guess that DiPT or a metabolite has some sort of primary effect there, before it exposes itself as a psychedelic. Maybe it causes a whole lot of misfiring there that would in turn lead to a lot of confusing audio data entering the brain, and then the user consciously can make some sense of some things and not others, especially if the neurons in the ear are constantly reporting hearing things at different, shifting frequencies. This is similar to the psychedelic visual affect, in that things are distinguishable, but are constantly changing shape/form/patterning, etc. That's all not very scientific though, and I have a feeling it will be a long time before this is unraveled; it's been about 60 years since the introduction of visually-disorienting psychedelics, and we still don't understand very much about how that all works.
 
Well, to science, and the public in general. I guess science as we know it hasn't really been around that long.
 
Anyone else feel the shutting off of sound effect from DiPT? I know I've read a report where another person did. It feels like I'm deaf, but at the same time some strange-ass noises are able to reach me, but it's like I'm hearing it through a filter or something.
 
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