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any other way?

R

roytoddy

Greenlighter
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Apr 11, 2017
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Sorry if this is too long. I'm new to this writing on the internet deal. Let me know if it is and I'll alter future posts accordingly.

My name is Roy Toddleston, but I'm a drunken drug user and stupidly forgot my password so now I'm Roy Toddy. If you happen to be interested, I posted my introduction info and (incorrectly) asked a question about adding a new addition to my drug repertoire in the introduction section.
I was impressed with the honest and courteous second response to that question. The first response didn't particularly bother me, but the second one, made by the same person, was what really impressed me. I've been reading this site as a creeper for quite some time because I'm not ready to die just yet and wanted to continue my deadly habits in the safest way possible. I completely support the idea of harm reduction. It's realistic and very likely saves lives.
However, drugs and alcohol are expensive and, given my current situation as a top student at a university, requires a lot of added effort like constant breath mints for alcohol breath and dishonest trips "to the bathroom" to use cocaine and heroin that I'd rather not deal with. Bear in mind I feel there's nothing wrong with using drugs and am totally fine with anyone else who does; I'm just tiring of all this extra work to hide it. It got me thinking about quitting entirely, so I stupidly reached out to a few true recovery groups. That was one of the worst ideas in my life!
Those people seem incompatible with my personality. I refuse to believe something simply because things might work out better if I do. I need an intelligent or, if not, at least persuasive argument to get me to stop. Though I've been using something or other my whole life, there were three times when I stopped drinking entirely - once for four years! Drinking has by far been the most destructive drug for me and I was happy with these times... the thing is, each time it just kind of happened. I never "tried" to do it. Recovery groups seem so damn fake with their "it works if you work it" that the little rebellious punk in my head makes me use twice as much as a result. I was banned from two online recovery sites and physically kicked out of A.A. a few years back.
Does anyone know of another way? I want someone to show me something that's better than a life of drugs, particularly alcohol. That's what happened all three times I stopped drinking - the first was Xanax (I lost the scrip now because tolerance led to continuous begging for increasing scrips); the second was college and constant weed smoking (I don't really consider weed a drug but I got busted and couldn't do it for a while because of piss testing); and the third was Adderall (I still have the scrip but I eat them like candy and it runs out two or three weeks early every month).
In each case, I was given an example of why it feels better NOT to drink... kind of like eating a Porterhouse and realizing hamburgers aren't as good as I thought they were. It's not that I want to stop everything. Xanax and Adderall are amazing, and weed was my lover until recently when it seemed to become too unpredictable to use.
I just feel like between money and lying antics, I'd like to be a little more normal. Instead, I just keep adding to the repertoire because dealers are just about the realest people I know - they want my money, don't care about much else and admit that to me. This is the type of honesty that gets through to me.
It's fine if no one does have an answer, but I figured at the least I could try once more here on this site of fellow users without having the rebel inside spark catastrophe because of bullshit responses.
I don't have self-control when it comes to sensual pleasure (quite the opposite of my self-discipline with academic work) so anything I have to "work" at to stop drinking and using cocaine will likely fail. But Xanax and Adderall showed me a better and far less destructive alternative to drinking that I can't argue with, and they do it without asking me to stop drinking in the first place.
I'm a pretty understanding guy and will have no hard feelings if I get no response. If I do, then all the better!
By the way, this is a wonderful website that has helped me understand the safest way to use long before I started writing on it. So Kudos to you.
 
I like this response, particularly the last line... "If you don't know yourself, what do you anyways?" SO TRUE! I'm always searching for the "truth," for the "answers," and it ends up leading me to bounce back and forth so many times that I can't believe myself anymore. If you change your mind once, then okay. But if you go back and forth more than once, it's called "flip-flopping," and I've done it so many times that it's hard for me to understand myself outside a vicious drug habit and a 4.0 GPA. Thank you for the advice. It will surely be taken into consideration.
 
I just love this thread so much & want to see other peoples responses as i can totally relate Roy (to some of the things you are experiencing/feeling)
 
roytoddy said:
I like this response, particularly the last line... "If you don't know yourself, what do you anyways?" SO TRUE! I'm always searching for the "truth," for the "answers," and it ends up leading me to bounce back and forth so many times that I can't believe myself anymore. If you change your mind once, then okay. But if you go back and forth more than once, it's called "flip-flopping," and I've done it so many times that it's hard for me to understand myself outside a vicious drug habit and a 4.0 GPA. Thank you for the advice. It will surely be taken into consideration.
Click to expand...

"Only the shallow know themselves."
- Oscar Wilde

but yeah, drinking is super bad for you but so are benzodiazepines, particularly the withdrawal which can be fatal. Although, so can the withdrawals from alcohol.
i guess you just gotta sum up the impact y0our lifestyle is having on you and those around you?
 
No one here can know you, your motives and drive or what consequences lead you to want to change (health, financial, legal, social ....) which makes your question hard to answer.

From what you have said you seem like an intelligent guy (in terms of academic studies). Personally, if I was in your situation I would be curious to see what level I could reach without the problems caused by different drugs which could be holding me back. Chronic consumption of benzos and alcohol, for example, have a negative impact on memory and, therefore, learning. Who knows where you could be if you cut them out??

Just to clarify this is just one of many reasons personal to me that I would consider if I was in your situation.

Best of luck though mate!
 
Hi Roy and welcome to Bluelight! I've struggled with sobriety for years and used to lower my alcohol only to consume more drugs. I'm in several online recovery groups and found some more helpful than others. I don't go to meetings either, not because I don't want to or like them. I don't have any by my house and I had a guy tell me last week that if I don't find a meeting I will die. That pissed my off but you take what helps you and ignore what doesn't. It really is a constant struggle for me and there isn't really one particular thing that keeps me in check. At the end of the day, it took a major health scare for me to take getting sober seriously. For you, I think getting arrested would be a big motivation to stop. What do you think?

(moving to Sober Living)
 
I've heard a lot about benzo withdrawal, and I don't doubt it's true. I literally picked the bottle back up as soon as my last scrip was gone, so I'm guessing that's why I didn't have it. I just mentioned in another comment that, although it's a bit absurd to keep "upping the ante" indefinitely, I think I'd rather eat 3,000 Xanax a day than drink because, aside from increasing tolerance, Xanax NEVER caused a single bad consequence. Keep in mind, however, that I wasn't looking to "get fucked up." I use drugs to cope with emotional instability that psychologists haven't been able to cure even after seeing them since age eight. I started with only one and a half mg a day and only upped it when the emotional problems returned. When I was finally cut off four years later, I was only up to seven mg a day, which my doc said was getting unreasonable. For some reason, alcohol just takes total control and makes me drink WAY more than I would have to. It doesn't always do this, which is why I consider it a trickster, but it's happened enough that I hate it while loving it at the same time. I like your Wilde quote too - never heard that one.
 
Prison may very well be a motivating factor, though it hasn't happened yet. And I'm surprised it hasn't because (although it's embarrassing to admit this) I've probably stolen somewhere around $5,000 worth of chain store merchandise to support other habits from dealers willing to accept stolen goods. If you're wondering how, <snip>.
In another way, I wonder if jail would really help or not. I've been 302'd twice, once in a rehab and once in a psychiatric ward. Both times, I wanted to break out but realized it could possibly lead me to get caught and be kept in longer. This thing in my head that I call "the weasel" makes a deal with me in these situations. It goes something like this: "You might be suffering now, but you'll get twice as intoxicated when it's over and done with, so just bare with it for now." This is exceptionally effective at helping me cope with the lockdown, but it also leads me to follow up on my end of the bargain with the weasel when I do get out.
I'm sorry for posting this in the wrong place. I'll check "sober living" to see if it shows up there and try to be more conscious of different forums in the future.
 
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Just to let everyone know. RogerSigval = RoyToddy. I've now learned how to get the website to save my password, but at first I kept forgetting it and had to keep creating new names. I've been "Roy Toddleston," "Roy Toddy" and now "Roger Sigval." This name changing will end now because I don't have to remember the password. It always seems strange that I can remember complex concepts and theories for academic purposes yet constantly forget simple things like passwords, road directions and even the way out of buildings within which I've been attending class for years.
...makes me wonder if these are different parts of the brain or something.
 
roytoddy/RogerSigval, welcome :) And what a post!

You sounds like quite the intelligent fellow, super cynical yet super smart - my kinda fellow. Have you ever heard of the "rainbow of harm reduction?" This is the idea of harm reduction existing on a continuum: at one end of the rainbow's arch there is the state of "abstinence," on the other "abuse" (I prefer the term "misuse", but the word abuse in this context is more appropriate IMO).

Think of it like this:

On one end of the spectrum you have people who never had any need to use substances to deal with life. For whatever reason(s) they learned how to control their mood and emotional states without relying on any exogenous substances. This is the abstinence end of the spectrum.

On the other end of the spectrum you have people who have not been able to live without the aid of some form of mind altering substance or medication. Basically this group of people are those who started using exogenous substances as early in life as possible as to aid them in regulating their mood.

Those two groups of people, the people who have never had a need to use a drug and those who have needed to use drugs all the time forever, are relatively small populations. The vast majority of people exist somewhere in-between the two extremes of the spectrum.

So by now you're probably wondering, who fucking cares about any of this shit he's writing about anyhow. One word: triage. Well, knowing where one is on the spectrum is important when it comes to getting the most effective treatment - the kind that actually works and does have a 5-10% success rate.

Obviously, if someone is only an infrequent user, one would need a different form of treatment than someone who needs a wake up shot of coke followed by another short of heroin to control the side effects of the cocaine each morning to feel human. Although no form of treatment should involve excessive coercion or manipulation of the patient, the fact of the matter is that behavior modification therapies (CBT) will require some degree of manipulate and coercion (and the more acute the disorder, the more coercive the treatment - at least so says the confrontational "tough love" approach to treatment that continues to dominate the recovery field; which, BTW, is complete BS and does infinitely more harm than good, but I don't want to get into that here).

Treatments for the more severe substance use disorders require therapies that are more invasive (ORT and auxiliary support, instead of only AA, for instance). However, the more invasive the therapy, the more potential to disrupt the patient's life. And, frankly, that is exactly what a significant aspect of addiction treatment is: although it is only one facet of treating substance use disorder, treatment historically has played the role of interrupting the user's addictive/habituated harmful patterns of behavior. It must be stated that substance use disorder treatment need to be far more holistic and comprehensive than merely such an "Intervention" type approach to treatment, as patients need to (re)learn new skills, not just distance themselves and disengage from harmful patterns of behavior.

Fascinating! Yes, but so what? I concur. Remember how I constructed this thought experiment that placed individuals with substance use disorder on a spectrum, and that at any one point in time the majority of them exist somewhere between a state of abstinence and abuse? Well, Our culture (thank you war on drugs) tends to lump any and all drug using behavior deemed socially deviant (our culture considers the recreational use of opioids inherently deviant, for instance) into the category of abuse, which thanks to the propaganda of the war on drugs and prohibition is synonymous with addiction.

So, one of the biggest issues with drug treatment is triage. And one of the most important issues with drug treatment is getting the right person kind of support that meets their needs as an individual, not the kind of the support tailored to some vague addict masses.

Hope this makes sense. All this is just meant to say that the road to, along, and in recovery varies according to the individual. Nothing is self evident. We all know what assumptions make us. Yadayadayada.

 
This was by far the most interesting comment I've seen since joining this site. I had to read it twice to make sure I got the gist, which usually means it's something a bit more worthy than other things. (no offense to other comments, seriously)
After reading your spectrum analogy and seeing your most helpful little "rainbow" visual aid, I'm wondering... Do you think perhaps I could continue to use (perhaps more vigilantly than in the past) the harm reduction method instead of trying to force myself into complete abstinence? It's really just this one thing that continues to nearly kill me and makes me black out and act like an unintelligent ass at times.
Alcohol is a big problem for me and yes, you're exactly right, this is Nixon's and Reagan's legacy of death by culture war. The illegal market makes potentially safer drugs much, much more expensive, far less accessible and potentially more dangerous because of assholes that cut with deadly or semi-deadly material.
Alcohol is always there, Nikolai, Popov and Jaquin are dirt cheap and, aside from store hours, they're always available. My current dealer is pretty cool. He's actually been telling me for a while that I should cut back on the drinking and, though I can lie my way out of it, has made me promise when, say, buying a $300 bag of crack that I won't fuck my brain up by just constantly smoking non-stop until it's gone. He's not always right, as I DID smoke non-stop with few to no consequences aside from wanting more, but he means well and has gained my trust.
His sources he cannot control, and he admits as much, which is part of the reason I keep trying to get scrips from doctors that are more reliable and pure; but it seems to me if I could rid myself of alcohol I wouldn't be in that bad of shape, regardless of other less destructive (at least for me) alternatives.
I think perhaps I fall on the far right of the "rainbow," but different drugs have different consequences.
I realize some of my initial complaints, like money and sneaking around, will remain; and I truly don't want to keep stealing, but I've always heard professors are overpaid and I've already gotten an internship at a Community College while working towards my Ph.D.
Suppose I keep my Adderall scrip even though it lasts only a fraction of the time it should, come up with the inflated underground market prices of less destructive drugs, and keep searching for a solution to stay away from alcohol entirely...
do you think this is a valid plan? I know you barely know me, but you seem to have quite a brain on your shoulders and I don't feel it inappropriate to ask this.
 
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I'm not entirely sure what you're asking to be honest, but I'm happy to help however I can. Amphetamines and alcohol are both potentially pretty harmful substances, and if you have a track record of using either of them in particularly inappropriate ways it will be difficult to just change up your behaviors all of a sudden.

Are you asking as to my opinion of your plan of action replacing alcohol with amphetamines? Sorry, I am a bit confused.
 
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It looks like I was somewhat unclear in my communication. I want and NEED to stop drinking. Amphetamines are harmful, yes, but they don't have the life consequences of alcohol - no inappropriate behavior. For that matter, the same could be said, at least in my case, of cocaine, crack and, though I'm very much a newbie in this last one, heroin. NOTHING has affected my life like alcohol.
In one of the first posts I made as Roy Toddleston, I think I mentioned (but maybe not as I have memory issues in simple things) that I'm not so concerned about longevity. I have a cat who is the light of my life and want to outlive her so as not to abandon her, but I definitely don't want to be an old man. I've seen IC nursing home centers and it is not an enviable way to live.
I suppose my question is whether you think it's possible to get off alcohol while staying on other drugs despite the immense availability and affordability of alcohol.
So, in a way, yes. I'm asking if you think I could be successful at ridding myself of alcohol by replacing it with other drugs like amphetamines but not exclusively amphetamines.
 
Short answer is yes :)

The long answer is, it depends on what kind of support you give yourself. Generally speaking, there is a reason (or reasons) you find alcohol attractive. It might be as simple as some association with pleasant memories or the ease of acquiring it, or it may be more profound like how it dulls one's feelings and helps us hide from that which goes bump in the night. More than likely it is some combination of various factors driving it as your favored drug of choice.

I'd look into drugs other than amphetamines though, as stimulants tend to go hand in hand with sedatives. Perhaps look into trying cannabis or kratom (you'd probably get more out of kratom than cannabis, but be warned there is a dependency involved that you should be aware of, though it's no where near as bad as gabaergic substance like alcohol).

Really, it isn't so much about the drugs as the choices you make vis a vis the drugs. By this I mean, replacing the alcohol with something less harmful like cannabis is a good step in the right direction, but ultimately you will have to also put effort into cultivating other general healthy patterns of behavior elsewhere in your life.

Recovery is about so much more than just drug use. Harmful patterns of drug use are often the more obvious tip of a large psychological/behavioral iceberg of underlying issues, so be prepared to work on this thing for a long time to come! It's well worth it though :)
 
As far as I know from my experiences there is also another layer on top of that rainbow logic as people seem to be able to control use of some substances but not all.

I can for example use alcohol safely just by having few drinks at the evening or even just one and that happens once in few months.

On the other hand I know I couldn't control my use of opioids so If I would grab some full-agonist opioids, quit Suboxone and wait until those full-agonists could kick in again I couldn't stop using without help.

Also I am quite sure I could handle some stimulant use without it getting out of hand and I have wanted to use MDMA for a while but haven't (yet) done that since I am on ORT and they wouldn't let me have some of my doses to be taken to home if my weekly urine test would come back positive.

Even if I wanted to try beat the UA it wouldn't be worth the risks as lately they switched all tests from immunoassays into gc/ms instead as some people had been taking daily a lot of stuff that doesn't show up on immunoassay tests but do show up on gc/ms. In most cases gc/ms test might detect even a single dose of MDMA and I need something like 0.25 to 0.35 for it to work as intended even though I have never been a regular user.

(And kids, don't buy MDMA in a pill form as the dosages vary and often pills contain something else too.)

So from the last fall I've been in abstinence except for the Suboxone used for my maintenance and I have managed to deal quite well although I feel like this total abstinence might not be what I want my life to be after I finish with the ORT. I just want to stay clear from opioids which caused a lot of problems for me.
 
I am getting so much out of this post very insightful ...i only have one tiny comment ...i always for get my passwords so i put them in my note saver on my phone i think its pretty save my phone needs a password to even use it ...i picked a easy one for that ..but there is no way i can remember passwords these days omg a capiyal a number and a symbol its enought the drive a person crazy ....

I used to drink years ago and it wa not what i would call a bad adfiction but getting hauled off to jail for a DUII in front of my young kids was so wrong i should not of even had my kids in the car my now spouse was driving actually and we switched seats right after we were pulled ovr , how we pulled that off i dont know .he already had duiis so in my drunck state thought it would better for my to take the fall , he ended up getting a duii a couple months later....so we decided that it was not worth killing ourself or someone eles or the kids i am thankful every day nobody was hurt it was a very good reason to reconsider my life and what i want from my life ...

I myself am getting of prescription drugs in part due the the dea not wanting anyone on opoids....other rrasons to but thats the main one and i dont even abuse my meds but i am still dependant on them but the dea dont care about that they just wantvpain meds to disappear A~holes...i wish you well and i look foward to reading how things go for you ...
 
AA was just not the right choice for me so I see a therapist who specializes in addiction.
You seem like you would do very well with one on one therapy from an intelligent therapist (not just a counselor) or psychologist.
Look into your options there.
 
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