Bupe Any advice welcome

[Ashleighann]

Okay,
So I’ve been using tar for about 2 yrs now, first smoking and roughly 1 yr IV and am sick of the leash it keeps me on financially and otherwise. I have procured about 30 subs (for me and partner)and failed once at transitioning. The goal is to use the subs to get off dope then taper off subs rather quickly, as I do not want to use them for maintenance. The failed attempt when as follows:
waited ~16hrs
took sub,
thought I was dying,
promptly bought dope.
So, after further research I realize I’m an idiot. But I’ve heard many differing opinions on how long to wait, whether subutex is better, basically every aspect of getting off dope has a million different opinions and options that each have their own pros and cons. I just need someone to tell me what to do so that I’m not suffering for too long, and I don’t have to waste my life away addicted to dope. Don’t get me wrong it’s been real, but I’m over it. The caveat is that the “tar” Is definitely that fentadope shit, so I’m pretty sure that even if I waited 72 Hrs I still might get PWDs... :’( Please help.

I’ve read about Bernese method but am unsure of the schedule, (ie stagger dope and subs or take both at same time). Kratom seems like it might help but it depends on who you ask. Subutex apparently gives pwds just like suboxen which is news to me?! I thought that was the whole difference. My rough plan was to just take Xanax and sleep for as long as possible before taking the suboxen but the more I read the less that sounds like it has a chance in hell of working.
thanks ahead of time
-ash

 

[Bella Figura]

If I snorted some heroin in the AM, I would wait till the next day - then I'd take 2mg and wait an hour. If i still felt sick, take another 2mg, and wait another hour. Keep upping until you feel fine, then that's your daily dose. It'll still take a couple of days before your body stabilises on buprenorphine. It'll accumulate in your system so don't expect instant relief from the first dose.

Eventually you'll be good.

Both subutex and suboxone will give you precipitated withdrawal if you take enough (which isn't much) whilst you still have heroin in your system.

Kratom would help if you have a small/mild habit but subutex will hold you better and for longer.

Use the xanax on the first night without heroin to sleep.

ps: the less subutex you use to hold yourself, the easier it will be to taper down. I used to try and limit it to around 4-6mg, but if you need 8-12mg then take that. But try and keep it to as low as you can, basically less is more.

Don't expect zero discomfort, that just isn't realistic. If you can accept that it'll be tough, but you have everything you need to get through it then you'll be able to do it.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Subutex and Suboxone are pretty much the same thing. Buprenorphine is what causes PWD because it has a higher binding affinity but lower agonist activity. So it'll rip the fent/dope off your receptors and replace it. And although bupe is still an opiate, it doesn't activate the receptors as much, thus leading to withdrawal symptoms. The naloxone was added to suboxone to deter IV use, even though it really doesn't cause buprenorphine will out compete naloxone at the receptor every time. It was merely a marketing scheme I believe, to make people think Suboxone is abuse proof, while also charging more for 2 drugs, rather than just straight bupe.

72hrs should be a good wait. Bupe is pretty potent and I found the Bernese method doable. Stick to micro doses of bupe. Slowly lower your dose of dope and in between there take very small pieces of the strip (assuming you have suboxone) under the tongue. This way the bupe will start to build up in your system.

If you do experience PWD, it is hell but it only really lasts for about an hour, because by then the bupe will have attached and started working. Bupe won't really block other opiates until you start to get above 2mg. So if you take a microdose and feel like you might have withdrawal, you'll still be able to use a little dope ontop of it.

If you think you can really make it the 72hrs, I would just do that. And even then,, you can test your response by taking a small microdose of bupe at the 72hr mark, wait an hour or two and see how you feel and then increase the dose until you feel as comfortable as possible.

It's hard to say exactly how it will go. There have been times I've used dope for a week, then went right back to suboxone and didn't have any withdrawals (in fact, the subs knocked me out) and then there have been times where I took the subs too soon and was thrown into PWD hell.

I wish all the best of luck and hope this could help some.

 

[93raza]

If I snorted some heroin in the AM, I would wait till the next day - then I'd take 2mg and wait an hour. If i still felt sick, take another 2mg, and wait another hour. Keep upping until you feel fine, then that's your daily dose. It'll still take a couple of days before your body stabilises on buprenorphine. It'll accumulate in your system so don't expect instant relief from the first dose.

Eventually you'll be good.

Both subutex and suboxone will give you precipitated withdrawal if you take enough (which isn't much) whilst you still have heroin in your system.

Kratom would help if you have a small/mild habit but subutex will hold you better and for longer.

Use the xanax on the first night without heroin to sleep.

ps: the less subutex you use to hold yourself, the easier it will be to taper down. I used to try and limit it to around 4-6mg, but if you need 8-12mg then take that. But try and keep it to as low as you can, basically less is more.

Don't expect zero discomfort, that just isn't realistic. If you can accept that it'll be tough, but you have everything you need to get through it then you'll be able to do it.

Agreed. When i took my 1st 8mg Subutex around 8 hrs after my last line of H i experienced a runny nose that lasted around 6 hrs and mild aching knees but that was it. No sweats no chills no stomach discomfort no feeling nasty. So I'd rather take the lil withdrawal an 8mg Subutex gives me than the real nasty H withdrawal with No subutex! To ignore the knee pain id do a light workout and it usually helped.

 

[spookyaction]

When I was doing about 3.5-5g per week, I'd usually tough it out at least 48 hours before taking subs. Which really sucked when heroin started switching over to fentanyl, since I'd start getting sick closer to 8 hours after last dose vs 24-36hrs with heroin. You didn't mention how much you were using either, which can play a pretty big factor. I ALWAYS started small with my doses of subs, especially after the first time I went though precipitated withdrawal. I'd usually wait 1.5-2hrs before even thinking about re-dosing since it would take that long to feel the full effect of the first dose, for me anyway. Fentanyl was super inconsistent on how long I had to wait to avoid precip so towards the end I didn't even bother trying to use subs anymore to detox myself. I personally chose the dissociative DXM to get me though the roughest part of my detox once everything I could find on the street was anything BUT heroin.

I don't know what your current doses are like, but 30 subs (assuming 8/2, bupe/naloxone) even for two people is excessive based of my experience and the experience of any fellow junkies I've known over the years. The half-life of buprenorphine is a like 36ish hours, so it lasts a while. My goal was always to be off the subs within 5-6 days after my initial dose. Cannabis was always a helpful companion during detox as well.

The last thing I'd like to say is make sure you have a plan for when you are finally off all opiates. My success rates were abysmal just trying to go about my life the second I was through detox. There is a significant mental aspect to addiction. I can say that AA/NA has worked for myself and anybody I know who really gave it a fair chance and was diligent in following the program. My last relapse happened more because I grew complacent rather than any failure of the 12-step program itself. I chose a different path this time around, but have been clean from all opiates for about two years now and I don't miss it at all. I can't even put to words how much the quality of my life improved after breaking those chains. Just don't give up.

Good luck. Sending positive thoughts and energy your way.

 

[cowboycurtis]

I personally only need to wait about 12 hours after my last shot to take buprenorphine. And just to reiterate, naloxone is not what causes PWD in suboxone. Buprenorphine is the culprit in all related medications. I know my dope has 100% contained fent occasionally, so I can’t really comment on needing to wait longer for fent. It hasn’t seemed to make a difference for me, not yet at least.
I usually take 2 mg 12-24 hours after last shot and then it usually goes something like this:
Day 1: 2 mg
Day 2: 2 mg
Day 3: 1 mg
Day 4: 1 mg
Day 5: .5 mg
Day 6 .25 mg
Jump

I used to go big with bupe falsely believing I needed, at a minimum, a 16 mg dose to hold me. I eventually learned that less is more with buprenorphine and it’s an incredibly potent opioid that doesn’t always get the respect it deserves.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I personally only need to wait about 12 hours after my last shot to take buprenorphine. And just to reiterate, naloxone is not what causes PWD in suboxone. Buprenorphine is the culprit in all related medications. I know my dope has 100% contained fent occasionally, so I can’t really comment on needing to wait longer for fent. It hasn’t seemed to make a difference for me, not yet at least.
I usually take 2 mg 12-24 hours after last shot and then it usually goes something like this:
Day 1: 2 mg
Day 2: 2 mg
Day 3: 1 mg
Day 4: 1 mg
Day 5: .5 mg
Day 6 .25 mg
Jump

I used to go big with bupe falsely believing I needed, at a minimum, a 16 mg dose to hold me. I eventually learned that less is more with buprenorphine and it’s an incredibly potent opioid that doesn’t always get the respect it deserves.

Absolutely. Opioid naive patients are started on 2-4 micrograms of buprenorphine. I've watched people nod the fuck out hard, even throwing up on .5mg of buprenorphine, while I sat there on 2mg+ feeling absolutely nothing. lol

 

[HatingThisLife]

I'm pretty much in your same boat, fighting like hell to get over this hump. Longest I waited to take subs was 17 hours and still it made me feel like shit. Took more to only feel shittier. Then scored. Im about 22 hours clean right now and struggling like hell. Wish I had some xanax, not sure why you think it wont help. Benzos always help. I dont really have access. Anyhow, good luck to you Ill be watching this thread!

 

[93raza]

I'm pretty much in your same boat, fighting like hell to get over this hump. Longest I waited to take subs was 17 hours and still it made me feel like shit. Took more to only feel shittier. Then scored. Im about 22 hours clean right now and struggling like hell. Wish I had some xanax, not sure why you think it wont help. Benzos always help. I dont really have access. Anyhow, g

I'm pretty much in your same boat, fighting like hell to get over this hump. Longest I waited to take subs was 17 hours and still it made me feel like shit. Took more to only feel shittier. Then scored. Im about 22 hours clean right now and struggling like hell. Wish I had some xanax, not sure why you think it wont help. Benzos always help. I dont really have access. Anyhow, good luck to you Ill be watching this thread!

ood luck to you Ill be watching this thread!

I'm pretty much in your same boat, fighting like hell to get over this hump. Longest I waited to take subs was 17 hours and still it made me feel like shit. Took more to only feel shittier. Then scored. Im about 22 hours clean right now and struggling like hell. Wish I had some xanax, not sure why you think it wont help. Benzos always help. I dont really have access. Anyhow, good luck to you Ill be watching this thread!

If you're still feeling shitty on bupr i think its ok to smoke marijuana or take a small amount of xanax or try and workout to keep your mind busy and not focus on feeling like shit. Good luck!

 

[Scrillion]

I just did a Suboxone taper. I tapered I think a bit too fast at the end because I just want off the shit so bad, but I made it down to 1/8th mg per day. Stayed at that dose for 1 week and then jumped. Today is day 21 with no Subs. The first 2 weeks were excruciating, though I was able to sleep fairly ok with OTC Doxylamine Succinate. Symptoms have been horrible head and body malaise (don’t really know how else to describe it), shits, nausea and a very hard time eating (though I’ve been able to force down plenty of calories a day), extreme fatigue, full body chills, excessive sweating, runny nose, etc. Surprisingly depression and anxiety haven’t been that bad, but have been a little noticeable. I’m generally a very positive person and I’m on Lexapro which I’m sure has helped the mental part of withdrawals. Plus I’m really excited to be putting this behind me and getting back to a happy sober life. Feeling very optimistic about that. I should also mention that I’ve been on Subs for almost 3 years, messed my taper up several times, and was on doses as high as 32 mg a day (when I I was forced to take generics that didn’t seem to work), so my withdrawals may be more severe than for someone who was on lower doses, for a shorter time, etc. Don’t let my story scare you from getting free from Subs. I’m probably going through a worst case scenario withdrawal with a taper. I’ve heard of MANY people who had little to zero withdrawals with a proper taper. So, like I said I’m on day 21 and I still feel like dog shit. Most accounts I’ve read online say it takes about a month if you do shit the hard way or too fast like I did. So I figure I’m a week to 10 days away. Things have definitely begun to improve over the last week though it’s been fairly minimal. Saw my Dr this morning and they took mercy on me and prescribed 2 doses of sublingual Ketamine which I will use over the next 2 days starting tomorrow. I read a National Institute of Health study that concluded Ketamine is very effective for attenuating opioid withdrawals. I’ve had a few bad experiences with clonidine in the past so they also prescribed me a weeks worth of Lucemyra, which is supposedly a less potent version of clonidine in that your blood pressure doesn’t drop as fast or as much. Clonidine always made me dizzy and shittier feeling. I’ll try the Lucemyra in a few days and if I don’t like it I just won’t take it. I’ve found that forcing myself to go for a 4-5 mile walk every day has accelerated the healing process, even though it’s very hard to do for the first mile or so. By the time I get home I’m always glad I did it even though it was the last thing I wanted to do when I left the house.

However, today I was able to get my hands on 2 20mg tabs of Adderall. I’ve had access to it for a while but I typically don’t like stimulants and was concerned it would raise my anxiety and make me feel worse. Well I decided I’ve been in so much pain for so long that I’d just try one. I’m very pleased to report that it has helped me feel much better today and hasn’t caused the anxiety issues I was concerned about. I took 20mg first then took another 20mg about 3 hours later. I still don’t feel great but it has definitely relieved a great deal of the horrible malaise. Only problem is it’s fucked my appetite up more so I haven’t eaten quite enough as I should, though I’ll go force some food down and be sure to get my calories for the day. I’m also concerned I’ll have a shitty nights sleep, but it is what it is. It’s been worth it to have a day of relief after 21 days of hell. I definitely won’t take the Adderall again soon as I plan on using the ketamine and lucemyra for the remainder of the withdrawals. Plus I am extremely wary of becoming addicted or dependent on another fucking drug or medication. Anyways, I hope my experience is helpful to someone. If you’re going through withdrawals just remember that they are finite and you CAN get through it. A greater and happier existence is waiting for you on the other side. It’s worth it. My advice is do whatever you absolutely have to in order to ride it out even if that means staying in bed all day some days. Like I said, withdrawals are finite. They WILL pass. You WILL feel better. If I can do it you can too!! I’ll do anything I can to help talk others through it. I want to be helpful to others. Much love to all.

 

[Scrillion]

I looked up the half life of fentanyl which it said is 6.5 hours if administered intranasaly. It’s takes about 5.5 half lives for any substance to clear the human body, so that means it would be clear in about 35 hours. The vast majority would be gone in 3-4 half lives.

 

[Scrillion]

@Ashleighann Sorry, I didn’t remember you have been using through IV. The half life is different when used that way. Seems like previous posters had good personal experiences to share. Best of luck!! You got this!!

 

[Scrillion]

Update: Today marks 5 weeks completely off of Subs. Still having significant physical withdrawals. Saw my Dr today, who is the best Dr I’ve ever had and I trust him/her completely as he/she is in recovery too (15 years off opiates), and he/she told me about 25% of patients have withdrawals that last 5-7 weeks. I was actually glad to hear this because after the 4 week mark I began to think there was something else wrong with me. He/she assured me that things will get better soon, which they already have a little. I also read several personal experiences here on Bluelight of people who had 6+ weeks of Sub withdrawal before experiencing significant improvement. So, fingers crossed, I’m hoping to be much better soon. I won’t lie, it has been very hard, but the little bits of improvement I’ve experienced over the last week combined with the pep talk from my Dr have me feeling much better mentally. I also spoke with a friend who is 15 years sober from Oxy. This person OD’d twice, was revived and sent into immediate withdrawals with Narcan, and cold turkied on their own several other times before gaining long term sobriety. Wow!!! If someone can get through that, I can get through this!! I should also mention that my withdrawal experience has been 95% physical. I’m lucky that I haven’t experienced the severe depression and anxiety that is notorious with opiate withdrawals. I take Lexapro which may account for some of that.

Anyways, I also wanted to report on my experiences with Adderall and Ketamine during withdrawals a few weeks ago. As I previously reported the Adderall was helpful....the first day. I took 2 20mg tabs over the day. Had trouble with sleep that night but it wasn’t terrible. It really helped me physically and mentally through the day during the worst part of the withdrawals. There was of course a stimulant crash at the end of the day that wasn’t all that fun, but was tolerable. However, the next day I overdid it with the Adderall and it was not a pleasant experience. I felt pretty extra rough for a few days after as well. So, I guess my lesson to share is that if you use Adderall during withdrawals from Subs be sure you are strong enough to keep the dose reasonable or else it could make things much worse for a couple days. I would also add do not do it more than once a week or so. Be very careful and if you are prone to overdoing shit, are an addict like me, or think it might cause you problems just avoid it completely. It’s not worth it unless you have EXTRAORDINARY self control, which most of us who end up on Subs don’t have. Fair warning! ️

Now, regarding Ketamine. I was prescribed 2 100mg sublingual doses to be taken on 2 separate occasions. The protocol is to lay down in a dimly lit room on a bed or somewhere comfortable, perhaps put on some relaxing music, meditate for about 30 minutes and get yourself into a nice relaxed state. At that point I put one dose under my tongue and put on earbuds with my favorite mellow music. It started to kick in in about 15 minutes. The lozenges took a while to dissolve and I ended up with a full mouthful of Ketamine spit which I ended up swallowing. The experience only lasted about an hour, was pretty mellow, but I felt little to no physical withdrawal pain during that time and it put my mind into a very happy and positive place. I felt that as hard as these withdrawals have been I knew that I would get through it and everything would be ok. I highly recommend Ketamine therapy to anyone who has access to it. I had never used Ketamine recreationally so it was a new experience. 100mg is apparently no where near enough to put a person into a so called “K Hole” and I felt no ill effects of any kind afterward. It only lasted an hour or maybe an hour and 15 minutes, but was an overall positive experience. This is not something that should be done everyday and should be done at your Dr or therapists office. A little talk therapy after the experience is very helpful and you aren’t allowed to drive yourself home. My only complaint is that swallowing all that Ketamine saliva/juice made my stomach a little funky here and there for a few days, but it seemed to only become aggravated when I would take NSAIDs or eat or drink something acidic like orange juice. Pepto Bismul or antacids would take care of it though.

Fingers crossed I’ll be through these withdrawals in another week to 10 days. I can feel slight improvement each day so I know I’m well past the worst and you couldn’t pay me $ million to go back to subs, opiates, or anything ever again. Looking forward to getting back to a good happy sober life. Wishing all those out there the best, I hope sharing my experiences has been helpful to someone somewhere, and please feel free to reach out with any questions or concerns. I want to be helpful.

One last thought, I have been smoking cigarettes for the 3 years I was on Subs and was concerned that they were making my withdrawals longer and/or worse. Through research and discussing it with my Dr I’m pretty sure it doesn’t matter much. My Dr said the majority of his/her patients smoke and I should wait until I’m not in withdrawals to quit, which I can’t wait to do. My Drs advice is “one thing at a time. Quitting 2 drugs at once might be too much.” I think that’s good advice. I do look forward very much to quitting smoking after this withdrawal though. I hate it!!

Stay strong people!! We can all get to where we want to be!!

 

[spookyaction]

Update: Today marks 5 weeks completely off of Subs. Still having significant physical withdrawals. Saw my Dr today, who is the best Dr I’ve ever had and I trust him/her completely as he/she is in recovery too (15 years off opiates), and he/she told me about 25% of patients have withdrawals that last 5-7 weeks. I was actually glad to hear this because after the 4 week mark I began to think there was something else wrong with me. He/she assured me that things will get better soon, which they already have a little. I also read several personal experiences here on Bluelight of people who had 6+ weeks of Sub withdrawal before experiencing significant improvement. So, fingers crossed, I’m hoping to be much better soon. I won’t lie, it has been very hard, but the little bits of improvement I’ve experienced over the last week combined with the pep talk from my Dr have me feeling much better mentally. I also spoke with a friend who is 15 years sober from Oxy. This person OD’d twice, was revived and sent into immediate withdrawals with Narcan, and cold turkied on their own several other times before gaining long term sobriety. Wow!!! If someone can get through that, I can get through this!! I should also mention that my withdrawal experience has been 95% physical. I’m lucky that I haven’t experienced the severe depression and anxiety that is notorious with opiate withdrawals. I take Lexapro which may account for some of that.

Anyways, I also wanted to report on my experiences with Adderall and Ketamine during withdrawals a few weeks ago. As I previously reported the Adderall was helpful....the first day. I took 2 20mg tabs over the day. Had trouble with sleep that night but it wasn’t terrible. It really helped me physically and mentally through the day during the worst part of the withdrawals. There was of course a stimulant crash at the end of the day that wasn’t all that fun, but was tolerable. However, the next day I overdid it with the Adderall and it was not a pleasant experience. I felt pretty extra rough for a few days after as well. So, I guess my lesson to share is that if you use Adderall during withdrawals from Subs be sure you are strong enough to keep the dose reasonable or else it could make things much worse for a couple days. I would also add do not do it more than once a week or so. Be very careful and if you are prone to overdoing shit, are an addict like me, or think it might cause you problems just avoid it completely. It’s not worth it unless you have EXTRAORDINARY self control, which most of us who end up on Subs don’t have. Fair warning! ️

Now, regarding Ketamine. I was prescribed 2 100mg sublingual doses to be taken on 2 separate occasions. The protocol is to lay down in a dimly lit room on a bed or somewhere comfortable, perhaps put on some relaxing music, meditate for about 30 minutes and get yourself into a nice relaxed state. At that point I put one dose under my tongue and put on earbuds with my favorite mellow music. It started to kick in in about 15 minutes. The lozenges took a while to dissolve and I ended up with a full mouthful of Ketamine spit which I ended up swallowing. The experience only lasted about an hour, was pretty mellow, but I felt little to no physical withdrawal pain during that time and it put my mind into a very happy and positive place. I felt that as hard as these withdrawals have been I knew that I would get through it and everything would be ok. I highly recommend Ketamine therapy to anyone who has access to it. I had never used Ketamine recreationally so it was a new experience. 100mg is apparently no where near enough to put a person into a so called “K Hole” and I felt no ill effects of any kind afterward. It only lasted an hour or maybe an hour and 15 minutes, but was an overall positive experience. This is not something that should be done everyday and should be done at your Dr or therapists office. A little talk therapy after the experience is very helpful and you aren’t allowed to drive yourself home. My only complaint is that swallowing all that Ketamine saliva/juice made my stomach a little funky here and there for a few days, but it seemed to only become aggravated when I would take NSAIDs or eat or drink something acidic like orange juice. Pepto Bismul or antacids would take care of it though.

Fingers crossed I’ll be through these withdrawals in another week to 10 days. I can feel slight improvement each day so I know I’m well past the worst and you couldn’t pay me $ million to go back to subs, opiates, or anything ever again. Looking forward to getting back to a good happy sober life. Wishing all those out there the best, I hope sharing my experiences has been helpful to someone somewhere, and please feel free to reach out with any questions or concerns. I want to be helpful.

One last thought, I have been smoking cigarettes for the 3 years I was on Subs and was concerned that they were making my withdrawals longer and/or worse. Through research and discussing it with my Dr I’m pretty sure it doesn’t matter much. My Dr said the majority of his/her patients smoke and I should wait until I’m not in withdrawals to quit, which I can’t wait to do. My Drs advice is “one thing at a time. Quitting 2 drugs at once might be too much.” I think that’s good advice. I do look forward very much to quitting smoking after this withdrawal though. I hate it!!

Stay strong people!! We can all get to where we want to be!!

I'm happy for you, keep it up! As far as withdrawals, I never did buprenorphine long enough to get withdrawal symptoms from it. I have withdrawn from a myriad of other substances though (heroin/fentanyl mostly). The severity and duration varied over a surprising spectrum, especially considering the fact that my weight and metabolism varied only slightly and dosage always ended about the same because I didn't stop till I was broke and homeless so not doing a whole lot, lol.

I never tried the ketamine/Adderall program you tried, but it sounds intriguing. Opiate detox mixed terribly with alcohol and crack/cocaine for me, so I wouldn't have ever thought to try any other of the speed-type drugs. If someone offered it for FREE I still wouldn't, lol. After my last few relapses, I got through physical withdrawals with DXM, maybe some cannabis, followed by checking myself into treatment (SUPER important for me if I wanted to stay sober for very long.)

The only advice I have for you at the point you are at now would be some daily mild exercise, a healthy diet, plenty of water, and a multi-vitamin (check with your doctor before the vitamin, I don't know anyone who's had bad interactions between prescription meds and vitamins, but I've read it's possible). Aaaaanyway, anything you can do good for the body pays off big time for physical and mental recovery from drugs.

It seems to me you've got all the resources you need to make it. You know people in recovery, follow the advice of your doctor, and have a good attitude. Just make sure you don't get cocky or complacent. Have a plan of action to follow in case you get any strong urges/cravings. They happen less and less over time, but they DO happen, sometimes seemingly out of nowhere and for no reason. I can tell you from personal experience that 12 step programs like AA/NA do indeed work. If you aren't already hitting meetings, give them a shot. Support (not the enabling kind) is always helpful and at the very least not likely to do any harm.

*I say not likely because meetings are full if addicts who may not be there for the right reasons. Just make sure you grab a sponsor who's got a decent amount of sober time and is familiar with the steps as soon as possible and follow their advice.*

Thanks for the update, keep coming back to let us know about your struggles and successes. You never know who or how many it might help!

EDIT: I've heard similar advice about waiting to quit smoking (1yr usually). Next month I'll be 2 years clean from opiates, and I haven't completely kicked nicotine yet... I can honestly say it's harder to quit than opiates, only because the short-term consequences are next to nothing. After all, cigs never made me wake up in an ambulance, sent me to jail, or made me homeless (maaaybe BROKE though, lol). I switched to vaping (salt-nic) about a 1.5 years ago. I'm still vaping, but I FEEL less addicted to nicotine now. I can go longer without nicotine and when I don't have it it doesn't bother me anywhere close to as much as when I didn't have any cigarettes. If I'm being honest, I SHOULD have quit a while ago. I just haven't wanted to I guess. So good luck with the cigs too whenever you are ready!

 

[Scrillion]

Hey @spookyaction , thanks a TON for the reply and insight. Much appreciated.

I’ve been doing pretty much everything you suggested for a long time and you’re absolutely right in that it’s very helpful. I’ve been in AA/NA for 10+ years, have a great sponsor, and get a lot of excersize every day. I haven’t been taking a multivitamin though and that’s been on my mind. Glad you brought it up. I’ll take that as a sign to get some tomorrow. I did try several amino acids for a while. Some did seem to help. If anyone wants more info on that please let me know and I’m happy to explain which ones I took, why, and the results. They really can help and are essentially just proteins. As safe as vitamins. I used to take a multivitamin every day. Not sure why I stopped. I was sober for many years and I think I just stopped buying them when life was really really good.

Other than being on Subs the last few years (and the two days I took Adderall for withdrawal relief and the Ketamine therapy I did - I can’t really call that sobriety, though the Ketamine was Dr supervised and the Adderall was not an attempt to get lit but meant to relieve some of the agonizing withdrawals for a short time) I’ve been otherwise sober for almost 3 years. My OG drugs of choice and what sent me into the depths of addiction many many years ago were alcohol and weed. Mainly alcohol. I did a good amount of coke and ecstasy too for some of the years I was a practicing alcoholic, but all roads led back to alcohol for me. I spent 5 miserable years trying to quit drinking on my own. I would get a few weeks to a few months and then go on a binge for anywhere from a few days to a few weeks, which was always followed by 3-8 days of HORRIFYING alcohol withdrawals. Alcohol withdrawals are the second most painful withdrawal only to Benzo withdrawal IMO. I once stupidly cold turkied off 8mg/day of Klonopin. I thought I was going to die (and lucky I didn’t) for months. Anyways, after failing to stop drinking on my own over and over and over (probably 25+ relapses) for 5 years I went to see a therapist I trust very much and FINALLY told him/her I was willing to do anything to get sober. I was at the so called “jumping off point”. I was headed for an early grave. My therapist said “OK, I’ll help you but you have to do it MY way, not yours.” I said “fine, please tell me what to do!” He/she said “go to AA. Go every day. Listen, meet new people at the meetings, find a good sponsor, and work the steps to the best of your ability. It doesn’t have to be perfect and you don’t have to be religious.” I avoided AA for 5 years because I thought I had to be religious for it to work. I was completely wrong!! I did what my therapist said and next thing I know I was clocking years of sobriety. IMO excersize and diligently working the program in AA have been the most helpful tools in sobriety. Great advice on your part. I appreciate you chiming in. Thanks so much!

Also, a much deserved congratulations on your sobriety!! I love to hear stories like that. I mean I understand you went through hell and I empathize and am sorry you had to experience that, but the fact you were able to get through it is very inspiring.

Yeah, stupid cigarettes. They are hard to kick, but I’ve done it before. 5+ years. I remember the hardest part being the intense cravings during the first week. After that it was much easier.

Anyways, thanks and be well my anonymous friend. I will definitely keep my progress, struggles, and experiences through this withdrawal updated here.

Take care and keep up the good work!!

 

[Ashleighann]

Thanks for all your help guys, I still have a lot to consider and have been reading a lot more about the Bernese method. Does anyone have any luck with using this method to get off dope? And then how quickly after that did you taper off subs?
I’ll add that fent’s ability to stay in the system for longer than originally thought is what has gotten me into this particular predicament, and Bernese Method seems to skirt that issue.
I’ve been shooting ~ 1/2 g of tar and recently switched to China hopefully thinking it would have No/less fent. I was wrong. Mainly I’m curious on the precise schedule for this method.
I do not have insurance or a dr. And honestly don’t really have any faith in any above the table program where I’m at. They seem to just throw some methadone at you and tell you to get in line. and have no idea about what to do with this whole fentanyl situation any more than I do.

 

[ChinaGroove]

Oh god. China White. I fell in love. But from what I hear now I wouldn't even recognize it or any H anymore due to the Fentdemic going on.
ANYWAY sorry to get off track. I have no real experience with quick tapers. I've done both Bupe and Methadone maint. and the Methadone helped me more than the Bupe. But everyone is didferent. Some swear by one. Some swear by the other. That's jyst my experience.
Now when I read you wanted to try a quick taper, I just wanted to add in. I'm not a dr. I have no stake in your choice. But it MIGHT be wise to consuder maint. I don't know you. You could be 1000% over your addiction and jyst need to deal with the dependence. But addiction is often long, tricky and, deceptive. There were times I thought I was done and just needed to jump off. Nope. I was still addicted. I had been going to my Methadone clinic for two years, or longer at exactly 31 months. Even my (young naive) counsoler thought I was over the addiction part and just physically dependent. Nope. I didn't iv again or anything but I missed use my take homes and took more than my daily dose. The fact that my brain was looking for a buzz told me that I was still addicted. And every so often that happens and I suffer. I suffer for a day or two of withdrawal due to my misuse.
I'm not saying that will happen to you. I'm just saying to be careful. Have a plan for when you get done tapering. I'm sure you know how hard relapse is. I also know that maintenance isn't practical or even possible for a lot of people but if you are at all able maybe it's worth considering don't follow the stigma that says that maintenance is for junkies or that you have to be on it for 5 10 15 20 years. It can potentially save you from a long painful road. Done properly it can be a great tool to deal with the psychological aspect of addiction
However you also know yourself better than anyone. If you know that you are truly 1000% sick and tired of being sick and tired then a taper could work. Whatever you choose good luck and please keep us updated if possible.

 

[H2ocean]

Subutex and Suboxone are pretty much the same thing. Buprenorphine is what causes PWD because it has a higher binding affinity but lower agonist activity. So it'll rip the fent/dope off your receptors and replace it. And although bupe is still an opiate, it doesn't activate the receptors as much, thus leading to withdrawal symptoms. The naloxone was added to suboxone to deter IV use, even though it really doesn't cause buprenorphine will out compete naloxone at the receptor every time. It was merely a marketing scheme I believe, to make people think Suboxone is abuse proof, while also charging more for 2 drugs, rather than just straight bupe.

72hrs should be a good wait. Bupe is pretty potent and I found the Bernese method doable. Stick to micro doses of bupe. Slowly lower your dose of dope and in between there take very small pieces of the strip (assuming you have suboxone) under the tongue. This way the bupe will start to build up in your system.

If you do experience PWD, it is hell but it only really lasts for about an hour, because by then the bupe will have attached and started working. Bupe won't really block other opiates until you start to get above 2mg. So if you take a microdose and feel like you might have withdrawal, you'll still be able to use a little dope ontop of it.

If you think you can really make it the 72hrs, I would just do that. And even then,, you can test your response by taking a small microdose of bupe at the 72hr mark, wait an hour or two and see how you feel and then increase the dose until you feel as comfortable as possible.

It's hard to say exactly how it will go. There have been times I've used dope for a week, then went right back to suboxone and didn't have any withdrawals (in fact, the subs knocked me out) and then there have been times where I took the subs too soon and was thrown into PWD hell.

I wish all the best of luck and hope this could help some.

If I was given 8mg suboxone this morning and now only have a subutex to take for tonight will it effect me in any way shape or form? Or will the suboxone block out the subutex? Please help

 

[Robi]

If I was given 8mg suboxone this morning and now only have a subutex to take for tonight will it effect me in any way shape or form? Or will the suboxone block out the subutex? Please help

i cant ever say anyone would be fine, but from what im being educated on , you sure might be, seeing that its the same drug,i know anxiety over drug use and WD can be so scarey, glad you are reaching out, im sure many will advise you, also from experience, if i dont have alot of what kept me from WD, id spread it out, just dont know how much subs you have left.

 

[H2ocean]

I have two subutex left but I should be getting into an actual dr tomorrow to get my own prescription. I was taking 15-20 20mg oxycodone a day and I’ve been on suboxone the past 3 days, but I ran out of that abs was given 2 subutex. I just want to be okay. I don’t know what I’m doing.