Misc Anxiety Medications

[J.Wallace]

Yeah, don't bother taking the SSRI's if he goes and gives them to you. They don't help for anxiety at all.

 

[rules]

i just want to make it clear that getting over my anxiety is more important to me than getting a recreational value out of my pills, it just seems like everything i've tried thus far hasn't worked and OH look at that, benzos are said to work and have recreational value. also, i have to agree with kokaino, people with pain are put on much more dangerous substances for much longer time, sometimes their entire lives, while people which anxiety which is not AS debilitating but very close, can't even get a proper script to benzos when I really do need it.

 

[Tommyboy]

Chronic pain patients are put on far more addictive substances (opioids) for years on end, sometimes for life. Why can't chronic anxiety sufferers (GAD, PTSD, etc) get access to benzodiazepines in the same manner? I don't get the double standard here. Fact is that tolerance develops to the sedative and motor-impairment effects, but anti-anxiety effects are long-lasting. Benzo withdrawal doesn't have to be difficult. A taper works just fine and as long as the user uses the prescribed therapeutic dose then they really don't have much to be afraid of. I think benzos are safe and effective anxiolytics that should be prescribed in moderation to those that need them.

I have been on benzos for nearly 13 years (scripted and non scripted) and they are a godsend for anxiety, insomnia and panic attacks, among other things.

The difference is that if a pain patient loses their meds they will have a shitty few days. If someone prescribed benzos loses their meds they could be flopping on the ground by day 2. And I don't want to hear about some studies that say that barely any people experience seizures while withdrawing from benzos. I have heard of far too many people that have had this happen that I can't take those studies seriously. When I was living in a small town the doctors wouldn't prescribe me benzos so I was kinda screwed since I had been on them for 5 years already. By day 2 I was making Michael J. Fox look like he was calm, so bad I couldn't write my name, n sleep wasn't even close to happening. They eventually gave in once they saw how bad I was, but I was cut down to 1/3 my regular dose.

The other difference is that I don't think that anxiety is as chronic as pain. I got over mine somewhere between 4 months- 4 years after I was prescribed xanax, but I never knew it since I was on the drugs all the time. Once I tapered off and felt the same on 1mg of valium as I did on 3mg of xanax I knew I must have gotten better. But now I can't get off that, although I got down to .5 every 3 days, but the withdrawal was too much to bear.

 

[rules]

The difference is that if a pain patient loses their meds they will have a shitty few days.

i think you're underestimating. if this person has been taking pain meds for years and loses them and doesn't have them for a few days i think the problem would be a lot more severe than what you make it sound like. hell, if that were me, i'd be in my car going to cop dope the moment i realized i lost em.

 

[-Guido-]

You'll make more progress from diet and exercise than you will with any medications.

I agree with this.

 

[kokaino]

You guys are right - it's not a good thing to be on benzos long term I get that and I understand the drawbacks and pitfalls. I guess everything comes with both pros and cons and that goes for chronic pain patients on opioids too. I think it's bad to be on ANY drug long term, but sometimes you really have no choice (ie. chronic pain patients). But anxiety sufferers also have no better choice sometimes either. For example, I have PTSD and GAD and SSRI's (which also cause serious damage in long term use) don't work. I've found that escitalopram has done some good for my depression but it hasn't touched my anxiety levels, which are normally high. I also occasionally suffer panic attacks which are usually because of my PTSD. I also have borderline personality but I do dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) and also take medications for that and I have come a long with my BPD since I was diagnosed (I was diagnosed when I was 23). For me personally, a benzodiazepine is essential. I am currently on alprazolam 1 mg 3x/day but I am contemplating switching to something longer acting. For some people (like myself), the benefits outweigh the risks. So I think it is an individual thing. Everyone is different and different people have different needs and each individual has a different set of circumstances. I think benzos are not as bad as they are sometimes made out to be. They are definitely addictive and can be harmful, but that's the nature of the beast. Withdrawal is definitely very bad for most benzos, but the truth is seizures are not a common withdrawal symptom. It can occur, but it is not as common as some think it is.

Here is some info from the medical literature on temazepam withdrawal (temazepam is considered to have very serious and severe withdrawals):

Abrupt withdrawal after long term use from therapeutic doses of temazepam may result in a very severe benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome. There are reports in the medical literature of at least six psychotic states developing after abrupt withdrawal from temazepam including delirium after abrupt withdrawal of only 30 mg of temazepam and in another case, auditory hallucinations and visual cognitive disorder developed after abrupt withdrawal from 10 mg of temazepam, 5 mg of nitrazepam and 0.5 mg of triazolam. Gradual and careful reduction of the dosage, preferably with a milder long-acting benzodiazepine such as clonazepam or diazepam, or even a milder short to intermediate acting benzodiazepine such as oxazepam or alprazolam, was recommended to prevent severe withdrawal syndromes from developing. Other strong hypnotic benzodiazepines, whether short, intermediate or long-acting are not recommended. Antipsychotics increase the severity of benzodiazepine withdrawal effects with an increase in the intensity and severity of convulsions. Depersonalisation has also been reported as a benzodiazepine withdrawal effect from temazepam.
Abrupt withdrawal from very high doses is even more likely to cause severe withdrawal effects. Withdrawal from very high doses of temazepam will cause severe hypoperfusion of the whole brain with diffuse slow activity on EEG. After withdrawal, abnormalities in hypofrontal brain wave patterns may persist beyond the withdrawal syndrome suggesting that organic brain damage may occur from chronic high dose abuse of temazepam. Temazepam withdrawal has been well known to cause a sudden and often violent death.

Lots of very negative and horrible withdrawal symptoms, but not a single report of a seizure.

 

[xxxyyy]

^ i agree with you on this. i've been through a shit ton of antidepressants, starting with various tricyclics, over various SSRI's, over SNRI's, and have found that most of them did fuck all for my depression never mind my various anxiety issues. pregabalin seemed like a godsend at first, but also lost efficacy over a while, and after discontinuing after a while on 300mg a day, then 450, then 600 and finally 900, has led me to take it similar how i would a benzo, namely strictly on an as-needed basis.
as for things i've been diagnosed with, i have pretty severe and crippling unipolar depression, as well as GAD, PTSD, agoraphobia and panic disorder. all around a nasty melange of symptoms that are always there but tend to reach levels that are so disabilitating that i have not been able to function for quite a while.
the only thing that consistently will relieve me off the anxiety end of things are benzodiazepines, and the song and dance required to get a continual prescription to them has led me to switch doctors several times because their use has fallen far more out of favor in europe than in america.

 

[junglebook]

Avoid benzos at all costs. Last resort them at least. Spend a whole lot of time on other theraputical treaments. Avoid benzos at all costs.

 

[Tommyboy]

i think you're underestimating. if this person has been taking pain meds for years and loses them and doesn't have them for a few days i think the problem would be a lot more severe than what you make it sound like. hell, if that were me, i'd be in my car going to cop dope the moment i realized i lost em.

I've been using dope since 2006 and opiates in general since 2004. I don't think I'm underestimating the withdrawals in comparison to benzo withdrawal. I was prescribed 32mg/day of suboxone for 18 months, usually taking 16mg, and I went from 16mg to nothing in a little over a week, so trust that I have experienced severe opiate/opioid withdrawal. I've kicked various opies, but that kick was the worst.

@Kokaino: I didn't mean to come across like some people don't need benzos for chronic anxiety, I just think that they should be avoided if possible, and used just enough to treat the symptoms if a patient really needs to take them.

Unfortunately in the state of NY refills are not given for benzo prescriptions (as shown on page 7 here), so it is more of a burden here than elsewhere. Like this month my doctor went on a 2 week vacation so he made my appointment 5 weeks after the previous one, making me have to stretch out my prescription an extra week. It's little things like that which make being on benzos difficult, and why being dependent on them causes some anxiety in and of itself.

 

[kokaino]

^ i agree with you on this. i've been through a shit ton of antidepressants, starting with various tricyclics, over various SSRI's, over SNRI's, and have found that most of them did fuck all for my depression never mind my various anxiety issues. pregabalin seemed like a godsend at first, but also lost efficacy over a while, and after discontinuing after a while on 300mg a day, then 450, then 600 and finally 900, has led me to take it similar how i would a benzo, namely strictly on an as-needed basis.
as for things i've been diagnosed with, i have pretty severe and crippling unipolar depression, as well as GAD, PTSD, agoraphobia and panic disorder. all around a nasty melange of symptoms that are always there but tend to reach levels that are so disabilitating that i have not been able to function for quite a while.
the only thing that consistently will relieve me off the anxiety end of things are benzodiazepines, and the song and dance required to get a continual prescription to them has led me to switch doctors several times because their use has fallen far more out of favor in europe than in america.

Before I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder my life was completely chaotic. There are 4 subtypes of BPD and I was a petulant borderline and a self-destructive borderline. I had no idea why I was feeling the way I was and doing the things I was. I had a very bad temper, but I was never a violent person. I was very passive-aggressive and manipulated people for self gain and jealousy used to be a major issue - so much so that I would attempt to sabotage anything that a friend or family member was happy or excited about. It could've been anything. I was also a pathological liar and I didn't even understand why I did the things I did. I always just felt very intense emotions and everything was either good or bad. If I got mad at someone for example, I would hold a grudge forever and I would so intensely hate the person that it was just nuts. I was a nasty person to say the least and I just hated the world. My relationships were basically all about me. I always felt suspicious and paranoid and my moods would shift within a matter of hours, even minutes from elation to absolute anger or really bad depression.

I never cut, but I hurt myself in different ways. If I felt really mad or something then I would take like 20 tylenols (paracetamol) or something stupid just to hurt my body. Knowing that I was hurting myself made me feel good, yes I know it is very weird but it was what it was.

After I was diagnosed things slowly began to improve with the DBT. DBT is basically training for borderlines to change their ways. They teach you to be mindful, they teach you coping methods, how to avoid being extreme in thought and to be more moderate and see things not just in black or white, etc. Along with meds, I have improved tremendously. I still have my moments but I know how to deal with issues now.

 

[Survival0200]

I think - when talking about benzodiazepine addiction and long term use - you have to experience it yourself to know it.

 

[chase_in_56ace]

Most renowned psychiatrists I've seen agree benzodiazepines are more trouble than they're worth. Heed the warning. The fact that you're looking for recreational value out of your meds tells me you will soon be going down a hellish road if you get scripted benzos.

 

[nycblueskie]

if your looking for some recreational value AND something that actually works on your anxiety, benzo's are the only way to go. i have anxiety problems too and all the stuff i put into my body daily over the years only makes it worst in the long run. Doctor's try to keep you away from benzo's but the fact of the matter is that they WORK! and obviously you can abuse them and get high from them.

To sum it up, Xanax.

 

[junglebook]

Yup. Thats what im starting for the second time from mondayto treat my severe anxiety. My Xanax script which by the way isnt covered by the NHS here in britian you actually have to pay for it. Every other Benzo is NHS free, Xanax you pay for. Good ole ASDA thought they got some sweet prices. <No price discussion.>

Its a price available to the public by ASDA no less. Be serious. Its public knowledge and well within any legality you could possibility find. To misinterperate that as promoting the selling of ASDA's Xanax then my friend your going to need a private perscription from the doctor. /rant over.

 

[tricomb]

i think you're underestimating. if this person has been taking pain meds for years and loses them and doesn't have them for a few days i think the problem would be a lot more severe than what you make it sound like. hell, if that were me, i'd be in my car going to cop dope the moment i realized i lost em.

The point tommyboy was making is valid. Opioid withdrawal can be ridden out safely, sure it's uncomfortable, it's not underestimating WD to say that it will have a few shitty days, it's true. The amount of discomfort varies patient by patient. People who rely heavily on opioids become dependent on the analgesia as well, even people who don't have legitimate pain, making them hypersensitive especially right after discontinuation. Of course the drug in question and tolerance are factors, but regardless the patient will not die.

With benzodiazepines, it's actually life threatening due to the seizures. There's no reason that a person should have to go through getting off benzodiazepines if they never should have gotten on in the first place.

I think - when talking about benzodiazepine addiction and long term use - you have to experience it yourself to know it.

OP, we're just trying to save you an unlimited source of pain and mistakes. It's hard to tell you with words and have you understand without having been there. Kind of like describing an LSD trip to someone who's never consumed drugs.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

Benzos have been of (sometimes great) therapeutic value to me, and have helped me stay functional during the toughest times. I would say, however, that a conscious attempt to procure pharmaceuticals for both medicinal and recreational use is doomed to fail. This is already a group of drugs that is plagued by very rapid tolerance buildup, and recreational doses far exceed therapeutic ones; you'll be surprised how quick your meds lose efficacy if you abuse them. In any case, it shouldn't really be a case of wanting specific medicines, it should be one of consulting a psychologist and physician or a psychiatrist, who will then prescribe anxiolytics if necessary. I know that many drug users are surprisingly educated, and many doctors surprisingly misinformed and stubborn, but generally speaking they are the ones who should be making the call.

If you do end up using benzos, it is also key to use them for as short a period as possible. It's important not to get into the habit of thinking that now, with medication, you are normal and happy. You are anxious and distressed, and the fact that you take medication to mask it should be worrying, not comforting. Benzos, for me, are really only suitable as that emergency crutch - they'll make you more functional again, but with that functionality you must tackle the cause of the anxiety, not ignore it - the crutch won't help for long.

Out of my circle of acquaintances, the only people who have not abused benzos and ended up regretting it miserably are those people who don't use any other recreational drugs. I've been seriously addicted and weaned myself off three times, sworn to never get hooked again, and gone and done exactly that. Every time, the withdrawals felt worse than the initial anxiety I sought to combat by taking the drugs.

Their recreational value is pretty lackluster and their damage potential is huge. Think very carefully.

 

[rules]

Benzos have been of (sometimes great) therapeutic value to me, and have helped me stay functional during the toughest times. I would say, however, that a conscious attempt to procure pharmaceuticals for both medicinal and recreational use is doomed to fail. This is already a group of drugs that is plagued by very rapid tolerance buildup, and recreational doses far exceed therapeutic ones; you'll be surprised how quick your meds lose efficacy if you abuse them.

supposedly, alprazolam (xanax) does not lose it's anxiolytic effect ever...even after recreational dosage and abuse.

edit: to be more clear, what i mean is that tolerance does not build up to xanax's anxiolytic effects.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

supposedly, alprazolam (xanax) does not lose it's anxiolytic effect ever...even after recreational dosage and abuse.

edit: to be more clear, what i mean is that tolerance does not build up to xanax's anxiolytic effects.

Really? I've heard of it developing considerably more slowly than the tolerance to other effects, as well as tolerance to anxiolytic effects in most other benzodiazepines, but no tolerance buildup whatsoever? Sounds weird, but I can't be arsed to read into it right now - got a source for that?

Either way, whether tolerance accumulates or not, the end result will be unpleasant. Consider that your tolerance to the rest of the effects of alprazolam - weak as they may be in comparison - will rise as normal. Going on a Xanax binge and then trying to get through with your anxiolytic dose will not satisfy your tolerance for sedative, anticonvulsant, and muscle relaxant effects.

 

[kokaino]

supposedly, alprazolam (xanax) does not lose it's anxiolytic effect ever...even after recreational dosage and abuse.

edit: to be more clear, what i mean is that tolerance does not build up to xanax's anxiolytic effects.

This isn't completely true and it applies to ALL benzos, not just Xanax. Tolerance builds up very quickly to the sedative, anticonvulsant and muscle relaxant effects but the anxiolytic effects are long-lasting. They do lose their strength overtime, but anxiolytic effects remain for quite some to for ALL benzos. However, a time will come when even the anxiolytic effects are completely diminished. This goes for all benzos, not just alprazolam. There is nothing intrinsically special about alprazolam and as a study that I posted in another thread claims that alprazolam actually proved to be a poor reinforcing agent compared to some other benzos.

Psychonauticunt, you would love the study. It is a very thorough and extensive research study. Triazolam, followed by temazepam were deemed the most reinforcing and psychologically addictive benzos. Here is the link to the thread.

 

[tricomb]

supposedly, alprazolam (xanax) does not lose it's anxiolytic effect ever...even after recreational dosage and abuse.

edit: to be more clear, what i mean is that tolerance does not build up to xanax's anxiolytic effects.

Well, I stopped getting anxiolytic relief from alprazolam, for what it's worth.