ANTIFA attacks peaceful right wing protestors in Berkeley CA.

[Droppersneck]

I think these fantasies that people here support neo Nazis because they denounce these Antifa fascist aggressors is the real mental gymnastics. But I realize we all have our own perspectives, and I'm sure things are completely different in Australia. So, it is what it is I reckon.

 

[Scrofula]

If you really think college kids with T-shirts are the enemy,

then yeah, you're a nazi fucktard

 

[cduggles]

hongkong is hardly mainland china [ ...some stuff...] China is a bigger human rights violators than NK by sheer volume. I threw in my spelling error to prove my point of not being able to argue a point, also all of your ad Homs does little to inspire confidence. You have weak arguments and you can't defend your positions without insulting and showing emotion. Sad

It seems that way because I have no respect for you.

Yes, I'm sure all your misspellings and misunderstanding of big words are deliberate "to prove [your] point", which apparently is that you don't know jack.

What is your point? For example, what is the point of your rambling post?

Hong Kong is part of China, which is an undisputed fact.

Pyongyang is part of North Korea. Fact.

Economically, they couldn't be more different. Fact. Economics is your area of alleged expertise.

North Korea is heavily dependent on China for trade. Fact.

By "volume" of human rights violations did you mean in the overall population? Because that is idiotic (in multiple ways).

Population density? Human rights violations per square foot?

Use units. An economist knows what those are.

It's not easy to agree or disagree with a meme, of which you are the intellectual equivalent. So what is a girl to do?

 

[spacejunk]

^ droppy has a long history of making inflammatory statements to get a reaction.
It's worth keeping in mind, because he's acknowledged in the past that he'll say anything to get a response.
It's just attention seeking behaviour, for the most part.

I think these fantasies that people here support neo Nazis because they denounce these Antifa fascist aggressors is the real mental gymnastics.

It is best to ignore them...or absorb it which tells one who the bad guys are and the bad thoughts they have.

Just don't light fires or threaten those you oppose with violence and we can all (peacefully) coexist.

(Not specifically picking on MGS here, but it's just the latest example of a sentiment that has come up multiple times in this thread).

The point myself and several others have made is that ignoring nazis is a highly misguided response, to the point of being dangerous. That's why counter-demonstrators tend to outnumber them most of the time - the vast majority of people have no problem whatsoever condemning fascism.
Anyone that talks about "freedom" should have no problem in condemning nazis. Sadly, that's not always the case.

Ignoring fascist mobs is not going to prevent them from feeling emboldened and attacking/killing more than they already are.

That is not acceptable to people outside of the partisan bubble.

I have no "fantasies" about people acting as nazi apologists; one only needs to look at this thread to see the amount of vitriol aimed at people who have the courage and tenacity to stand up to fascism.

Condemning antifa tactics is not "supporting fascism" - but when you condemn antifa and assert the rights of nazis to organise into mobs that intimidate and threaten (and frequently also kill) people - that does start looking like "support" for neo-nazis.

Whether it is or not is debatable, but it is certainly what it looks like. What i'm talking about here though is choosing sides.

When people condemn antifa but won't denounce nazi violence, they are picking a side, whether it is deliberate or not.

And what i'm suggesting is that people might want to rethink that choice.

Perhaps Droppersneck could provide a meme?

 

[RDP89]

I think these fantasies that people here support neo Nazis because they denounce these Antifa fascist aggressors is the real mental gymnastics. But I realize we all have our own perspectives, and I'm sure things are completely different in Australia. So, it is what it is I reckon.

While alot of Trump supporters may be working class, it's pretty obvious they've been duped by a billionaire who's only looking out for other billionaires and their corporate interests. I won't try to say the democrats stand for the working class either, as they're all career politicians in the pockets of the corporations. Nothing will change until the entire system of lobbyists and pay to play politics is done away with(looks like most likely never).

 

[cduggles]

^ droppy has a long history of making inflammatory statements to get a reaction.
It's worth keeping in mind, because he's acknowledged in the past that he'll say anything to get a response.
It's just attention seeking behaviour, for the most part.

Good to know. It's pathetic though. There must be a Trump-sized hole in his heart.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

If you really think college kids with T-shirts are the enemy,

then yeah, you're a nazi fucktard

Here could be a teachable moment. Give me a few lines here...I'm gonna give my current thinking on the GOP (aka Party of Abraham Lincoln, the party that signed the civil rights bills in the 50s and 60s with the President in opposition to the segregationists from the South...who were ALWAYS Democrats...aka the ones that owned slaves and the ones who run the cities where they created 'public housing' after jailing the male, promoted eugenics to kill when they stopped lynching (Sanger). Those guys are the Nazis.


For once and for all...Nazis are socialists * and there is isn't a single thing the national socialists have in common with the GOP. That's a pretty broad declarative statement....have fun with it...avoid cursing and use citations.

And that begs the question, which GOP?

If you haven't noticed...the Republican establishment hate Donald Trump. As much as I hate to admit I'm far more attracted to Donald Trump's populist version of Republicanism (even with his apparently awful political instincts, and capacity to always say the wrong thing) than the Ryan side, McConnell side, or the Cruz side. I really only care for Rand Paul these days (mostly for his consistency less his policy). McCain has never been a real Republican. And that he didn't even try and beat Obama in 2008. Good day to him.

Do I think college kids are my enemy? I have no enemies.

* Yes I know Hitler hated Marx....so what! As Spacejunk pointed out to me....social ism predates Marx.

Now quote wikipedia...

Nazism subscribed to theories of racial hierarchy and Social Darwinism, identifying the Germans as a part of what the Nazis regarded as an Aryan or Nordic master race.[2] It aimed to overcome social divisions and create a German homogeneous society based on racial purity which represented a people's community (Volksgemeinschaft). The Nazis aimed to unite all Germans living in historically German territory, as well as gain additional lands for German expansion under the doctrine of Lebensraum and exclude those who they deemed either community aliens or "inferior" races. The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism. Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of class conflict, opposed cosmopolitan internationalism and sought to convince all parts of the new German society to subordinate their personal interests to the "common good" and accept political interests as the main priority of economic organization.[3]

The Nazi Party's precursor, the Pan-German nationalist and antisemitic German Workers' Party, was founded on 5 January 1919. By the early 1920s, Adolf Hitler assumed control of the organization and renamed it the National Socialist German Workers' Party to broaden its appeal. The National Socialist Program was adopted in 1920 and called for a united Greater Germany that would deny citizenship to Jews or those of Jewish descent, while also supporting land reform and the nationalization of some industries. In Mein Kampf (1924–1925), Hitler outlined the anti-Semitism and anti-Communism at the heart of his political philosophy, as well as his disdain for parliamentary democracy and his belief in Germany's right to territorial expansion.[4]

Its there, socialism... Don't care if he hated Marx.

 

[Scrofula]

NO, it's a whole lot simpler.

The people who hold these rallies you defend, Mr. Seed, are NAZIS. You can call them white nationalists, fascists, racists, white power, anti-semites, whatever you want. One of their boys killed a bunch of elderly black people while they had bible study. At a rally, some of them drove their cars into peaceful people and killed them. Later, they shot guns into crowds of innocent people. They also beat an innocent black guy to serious harm.

College kids showed up to one of their rallies, and shoved a guy.

NOW, which side are you on?

It's an EASY fucking question.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

NO, it's a whole lot simpler.

The people who hold these rallies you defend, Mr. Seed, are NAZIS. You can call them white nationalists, fascists, racists, white power, anti-semites, whatever you want. One of their boys killed a bunch of elderly black people while they had bible study. At a rally, some of them drove their cars into peaceful people and killed them. Later, they shot guns into crowds of innocent people. They also beat an innocent black guy to serious harm.

College kids showed up to one of their rallies, and shoved a guy.

NOW, which side are you on?

It's an EASY fucking question.

Stop saying I defend Nazis. You are lying. I only defend their right to exist and lawfully protest and speak....because it is the American way. I defend socialists, the confused, the broken, and the stupid to the same right to speak.

I do not defend Hitler or his followers because of the content of their values...only their right to behave lawfully. The same with the socialists and anarchists, and other left.

Edit: stop saying I defend nazis and pull my argument apart that the Democrats are the nazis....you cant!

 

[Scrofula]

This has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans

Nazis are holding rallies. You attack the people who counter-protest.

WHat else am I supposed to think, besides you're a fucking nazi?

Only a nazi sympathizer would be so defensive of the ralliers and so offensive against the peaceful kids (except for one who shoved a guy) protesting against them!

 

[spacejunk]

I do not defend Hitler or his followers because of the content of their values...only their right to behave lawfully

Wow.
You know that the holocaust was entirely lawful, right?

So - this may sound like a "gotcha" question, but does that mean you support that kind of thing?
Mass repression, political murders, torture?
If it's legal it's alright?

Laws are human constructs. There are all sorts of really dreadful things that can be legal.
"Within the law" is - in that sense - a pretty meaningless restriction.

I'd love to hear of an example of these mythical "non violent" nice nazis. Nazis kill people. It's what they do.
Supporting nazis right to "exist and lawfully protest and speak" by extension supports their right to incite hate and violence.

Do you support muslim terrorists' right to "exist and lawfully protest and speak"?

Should we just try and coexist with ISIS?
Should we grant them equal time in the press, and a right of reply?
Do ISIS have the right to exist?

What about their freedom of speech?

Remember - "it's the american way"

 

[cduggles]

Charlottesville was the turning point. You either condemn the violence and the casualties, which were committed by Neonazis and white supremacists, or you tacitly support it.

There really isn't middle ground.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

You guys are too much. I've condemned the nazis and hate em. They still have a right to march. Don't fence me in.

Also was the murderer a nazi? He seemed less Aryan and more simple low income trash.


See im one of the sane good guys and cduggles has convinced me I wont survive the great purge. Im literally not saying what I think they should, so they call me names like nazi. Jeez.

 

[brooklynwild]

The only platform nazis deserve are the ones to the guillotine. Slaves were legal at one point too. Laws are shit made up by those in power to keep them in power. Happy to see fellow antifa round here.

 

[cduggles]

He was a Neonazi.

(I know we all look alike, but we're not.
I don't use the word 'Nazi' except to describe the few elderly survivors, probably in Argentina. But that's just semantics.)

These alt-right people support fascism and are violent; they caused casualties and joked about it. Trump supports them. He has white supremacists in the White House ffs. Right now.

As Scrofula said, it's a simple question.

 

[spacejunk]

The only platform nazis deserve are the ones to the guillotine. Slaves were legal at one point too. Laws are shit made up by those in power to keep them in power. Happy to see fellow antifa round here.

right on


i saw this earlier and think it is appropriate. also, y'know - it's got pretty pictures

for those who don't know about it, the paradox of tolerance is a theory of philosopher Karl Popper.

The paradox of tolerance, first described by Karl Popper in 1945, is a decision theory paradox. The paradox states that if a society is tolerant without limit, their ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Popper came to the seemingly paradoxical conclusion that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.

See im one of the sane good guys and cduggles has convinced me I wont survive the great purge. Im literally not saying what I think they should, so they call me names like nazi. Jeez.

you seem to really have a problem with people disagreeing with you. which makes me wonder what the purpose of this is for you. we're talking politics.
why post about shit that people are going to take you to task upon?

as for "purges" - need i remind you that you're the one backing an authoritarian?
we might be passionate and thorough, but talk of purges is just silly.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

The only platform nazis deserve are the ones to the guillotine. Slaves were legal at one point too. Laws are shit made up by those in power to keep them in power. Happy to see fellow antifa round here.

You are silly. Nazis deserve the needle or chair if they kill and its proven in a court of law. You sir are part of a lynch mob. Love the memes, love the original thinking in this forum. This thread says a lot.

Yes, know the holocaust "legal.". For the last time, I am college educated....and received a degree. Why does it blow people's minds so much I don't think like them....I get called a nazi defender..so is the aclu!

Anyways, hello and happy sunday into Monday you lynchmobs!

I am more encouraged ever to stand up for free speech, the rule of law barring the CSA, my belief in the American way, and my dislike of inhumane systems of government such as socialism/communism/non-democratic(ish) systems.

 

[Droppersneck]

I said it once and I'll say it again, the left can't meme.
There are probably only a few thousand Nazis left on this planet. And alt right d bags that are out there aren't exactly a real threat to anyone, though they do help leftists groups fundraise. Charlottesville wouldn't have even been violent if the mayor hadn't been paid off to tell the police to stand down. The lack of cops allowed the alt left groups to fight with the white nationalists there.

OT: I just googled Antifa and wasn't aware of their origins. They were founded in 1932 as the communist parties militant wing to combat actual Nazis. So I'm guessing the antifas now are portraying Trump as literally Hitler, and they are LARPing this whole resistance thing. Lmao this makes a lot more sense now, this Antifa thread delivers.

 

[cduggles]

SJ, the paradox of tolerance is very interesting and a great addition to the "why violent white supremacists are bad" explanations. It's quite apt.

I'll wait to see if this thread evolves a little to ask a real question, but I appreciate the heads-up and the amazing post. You gave me a shred of hope.

There's no purge coming and I don't use the word "Nazi" for people under 70 years of age.

 

[spacejunk]

I said it once and I'll say it again, the left can't meme.

Say it as many times as you please. it's demonstrably false;