ANTIFA attacks peaceful right wing protestors in Berkeley CA.

[Scrofula]

Do you have a source for these people claiming "akin to practicing Jews who keep Kosher dietary restrictions"?
Doesn't sound like any claim i've ever heard.
It's a stupid remark, and i doubt any self respecting "leftist" would say such a thing. Perhaps you could provide a link to this claim?

if you're going to complain about "idiot leftists", you might want to include some substance in your posts.
Saying "they believe this" and listing off a bunch of weird facts that you seem to believe "leftists" think doesn't really cut it.

Well thanks SpaceJunk, his quote is by me, idiot leftist, right above that:

My favorite part of these fantasies is about Sharia Law taking over. The horror of eating halal food. By people who won't hesitate to eat a kosher hot dog or a bagel.

Something very close to Sharia Law is practiced in the US, in New York City by the Jewish population. Because all these laws come from the same damn source, and it's in your damn bible. You all pray to the same god of the desert. Christians just choose to ignore all the cult practice.

That quote was yanked from a different thread in a response to Alpha Centauri I think, so who fucking knows, I might secretly be Fresca at this point.

As usual, no one's actually refuted the claim I made, or even bothered to look up Borough Park Brooklyn for fuck's sake.

Thanks for getting my back on that though.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Uh, what?


Do you have a source for these people claiming "akin to practicing Jews who keep Kosher dietary restrictions"?
Doesn't sound like any claim i've ever heard.
It's a stupid remark, and i doubt any self respecting "leftist" would say such a thing. Perhaps you could provide a link to this claim?

if you're going to complain about "idiot leftists", you might want to include some substance in your posts.
Saying "they believe this" and listing off a bunch of weird facts that you seem to believe "leftists" think doesn't really cut it.

As for the allegation that we "idiot leftists" are "totally clueless"? Try engaging with some of the actual arguments if you'd like this claim to be taken seriously. I think when you resort to hurling empty insults and putting words in people's mouths, its pretty clear you don't have much of a point to make.

Read my last post, Post #396, the quoted text, and the linked thread.

 

[spacejunk]

So "idiot leftist" was aimed at another poster. Ok..

 

[Scrofula]

Yeah, that was me. Anybody bother to check the idiot leftist's claim that Kosher and Halal practices are nearly the same, as well as Orthodox Jewish Law and Sharia? And that Orthodox Jewish Law is practiced in enclaves in the United States, namely Borough Park Brooklyn?

Anybody bother to take a look?

In the meantime I'll be looking for things to put in my pipe.

Unless you want to stick by your "stupid remark" remark? I sometimes manage to have respect for myself as a leftist, usually when making comparisons like that.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Someone can be against both actual Fascism, and Antifa.

An agitation for which there are no reasons?

The SPÖ is currently in a pre-election phase of its own party congress. She thinks she needs to be special here. The anti-fascists, who are particularly vociferous, are the fascists of the third millennium.

This is an extreme charge.

I stand by that. What is being done here to denounce others and deny them democratic legitimacy is outrageous. I regret this development. I stand for plurality, I do not want extremes to the left and to the right. It is not right for one group to watch the others in all directions, trying to spy on them and criminalize them.

https://kurier.at/chronik/oberoeste...ntifaschisten-sind-neue-faschisten/10.727.902

 

[spacejunk]

Someone can be against both actual Fascism, and Antifa.

Of course they can - many people in this thread disagree with both nazis and antifa.
But anti-fascism is not fascism; this has been explained at length in this thread many times.

Anti-fascist anarchists are so far from fascists ideologically that it feels bizarre to have to keep pointing it out - but i do understand that most people have never come across anarchist politics before, and it is very easy to misunderstand.

 

[Scrofula]

Anybody know what this thread's about anymore?

I can let my sullied honor go, if we could maybe define what we're talking about.

"Antifa"=an imaginary group of terrorists in the US who are on record as shoving an old man once
antifa US=a broad category of activists from diverse backgrounds who are opposed to fascism (cf. the latest rally in whats-it-berg)
Antifa Commonwealth=a non-US group of anarchists with twitter and webpages who maybe? do some underground sabotage-type activism against fascist targets
antifa=a philosophy of opposition to fascism

Because posters from the US think there's some free-speech issue (there isn't), while trolls want to just say "nah, you can't be anti fascist cause you're really fascists nya nya".

Why people would even consider defending the fascists tells you how much the fascists have gained influence.

The guys who want to seize authoritarian power and murder millions of people are the victims and the guys who shout at their rallies are enemies of the constitution.

This is fucked.

 

[spacejunk]

Yeah, it's a pretty classic political smear-tactic; make out that your opponent is doing exactly what you're up to.

I've never seen it be embraced with such enthusiasm though.
It's definitely fucked. Fascism is not something to be complacent about - the fact that people think it is just some harmless viewpoint is just totally bizarre. Propaganda works.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Antifa showing how they are a violent terrorist racist hate group:

 

[spacejunk]

Sigh



It wasn't convincing the first 8 times you posted that. I'm not sure why you keep repeating it - it doesn't get any more accurate with repetition...nor is it a coherent or rational argument.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Of course they can - many people in this thread disagree with both nazis and antifa.
But anti-fascism is not fascism; this has been explained at length in this thread many times.

Shutting down or disrupting people that have the right to protest seems pretty fascist to me, but it's clear that your belief that antifa are doing noble work even if they're the instigators is never going to change. 8(

 

[spacejunk]

Shutting down or disrupting people that have the right to protest seems pretty fascist to me, but it's clear that your belief that antifa are doing noble work even if they're the instigators is never going to change. 8(

you have a simplistic understanding of what fascism is then.

The irony in calling antifa "fascists" is that you're giving (actual) fascists (who murder people) a free pass.
Like - "you guys are so bad - you're like fascists"
But... Actual fascists have "the right to protest"?
The irony there is overwhelming.

You think nazis gather to "protest"? Seriously?
They gather to intimidate, harass, bash and kill people. That's not protest, it's conspiracy to to commit hate crimes.

Thw only thing holding them back seems to be the massive crowds of antifascist activists.

 

[swilow]

The comparison has been inflated. Imo, its the methodology that has parallels and not the ideology. I've probably said that though.

 

[spacejunk]

 

[nuttynutskin]

you have a simplistic understanding of what fascism is then.

The irony in calling antifa "fascists" is that you're giving (actual) fascists (who murder people) a free pass.
Like - "you guys are so bad - you're like fascists"
But... Actual fascists have "the right to protest"?
The irony there is overwhelming.

You think nazis gather to "protest"? Seriously?
They gather to intimidate, harass, bash and kill people. That's not protest, it's conspiracy to to commit hate crimes.

Thw only thing holding them back seems to be the massive crowds of antifascist activists.

There's nothing ironic about it and I never said anything about giving fascists a "free pass". But as long as they're obeying the law they have the right to protest. And what's more, just like you, antifa seems to have no problem throwing the term fascist around for anyone they disagree with. For instance the attacks on Trump supporters. I dislike Trump just as much as anyone but to label all of his supporters as fascists just bastardizes the term, and his supporters have the right to rally without being attacked. From what I've seen things don't typically become violent in these scenarios until these morons try to interfere. If they want to hold a counter-protest that's fine, but I don't think it's ok to disrupt or shut down other protests or rallies just because you disagree with their views or politics.

Malcolm X was a racist and advocated the separation of blacks and whites...

 

[spacejunk]

Malcolm X's father was murdered by the KKK, and he encouraged african americans to have some pride in themselves and their culture. Of course he was a radical, but he was around in a time when the south was still segregated.
He wasn't pro-segregation, although there are people coming out of the woodwork in recent times that are.

I didn't say anything about" trump supporters", i am specifically referring to fascists. Though, of course some trump supporters are fascists, so the lines blur a bit, don't they?
I mean, i'm not saying "all trump supporters are fascists" - but it would also be wrong to deny that some trump supporters are fascist, because they clearly are.
Fascism is never ok, and i will not support fascists' "right" to do anything.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Malcolm X's father was murdered by the KKK, and he encouraged african americans to have some pride in themselves and their culture. Of course he was a radical, but he was around in a time when the south was still segregated.
He wasn't pro-segregation, although there are people coming out of the woodwork in recent times that are.

In his autobiography, Malcolm X wrote proudly of some of the social achievements the Nation made while he was a member, particularly its free drug rehabilitation program. The Nation promoted black supremacy, advocated the separation of black and white Americans, and rejected the civil rights movement for its emphasis on integration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X

I didn't say anything about" trump supporters", i am specifically referring to fascists. Though, of course some trump supporters are fascists, so the lines blur a bit, don't they?
I mean, i'm not saying "all trump supporters are fascists" - but it would also be wrong to deny that some trump supporters are fascist, because they clearly are.

It seems like you've sort of lumped the two together. But regardless, antifa has attacked people who weren't fascists and that they simply disagreed with politically. Do you think that's ok? Who gets to decide who's a fascist and who isnt?

Fascism is never ok, and i will not support fascists' "right" to do anything.

You don't have to support them to acknowledge they have the right to rally as long as they aren't breaking any laws. Otherwise you're an opponent of free speech.

 

[Scrofula]

What does Malcom X have to do with anything?

As long as we're bringing that up, Dr. Huey Newton of the Black Panthers was assassinated by Oakland PD. I'm pretty sure the Panther's stance was about not getting shot by police, or fascist crackers.

You don't have to support them to acknowledge they have the right to rally as long as they aren't breaking any laws. Otherwise you're an opponent of free speech.

They do not have a right to rally. Any more than communists do. That is not what free speech means. You have a right against government interference in your expression; but many restrictions apply, and all they have to do is be fair.

You're conflating an academic philosophy that says all concepts should be considered; it is not applicable to this.

 

[spacejunk]

It seems like you've sort of lumped the two together. But regardless, antifa has attacked people who weren't fascists and that they simply disagreed with politically. Do you think that's ok? Who gets to decide who's a fascist and who isnt?

People that rally with fascists can't complain if they get called fascists. Frankly, if you're in a position to be mistaken for a nazi in a public demonstration, you need to reassess your life choices.
I think it's fair to "decide" people seig-heiling and carrying swastika banners are nazis/fascists.

I agree with scrofula - inciting violence against ethnic minorities is not something that falls under freedom of speech.
Is inciting a riot "free speech"?
What about inciting terrorism through radical islamic preaching?

Maybe we should be supporting bin laden's freedom of speech?
After all, he didn't personally fly any planes into buildings, nor did he strap on a suicide vest.
Free speech, no?

I don't think inciting murder is a perspective (hypothetical or not) to defend on some abstract "free speech" basis.
Nazism is incompatible with freedom of speech and civil society.

 

[swilow]

Spacejunk, did you see that disgusting video of those Patriot Blue cunts harassing Sam Dastiary (sp?)? Fucking wankers. Made me sad tbh. I don't dig Dastiary but no one should be cslled a monkey or terrorist down at the pub (or fucking anywhere tbh).