ANTIFA attacks peaceful right wing protestors in Berkeley CA.

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Antifa have been killed by nazis.
Antifa aren't in the business of killing nazis.

Nazis are terrorists, we resist them. It's really quite simple.

How sick it is to see people on this forum supporting nazis right to harass and murder people.

That's just ridiculous man. Ludicrous.

Yes and Antifa are also terrorists, and just as bad/as fascist as the Nazis and far right people are, only they pretend to be progressive, and leftist.

 

[Scrofula]

If they existed, wouldn't they be more anarchist?

Back in the day, i actually knew the guy who ran the SF chapter of the Workers world party, or something. He called the Dalai Lama a "fascist God-king" and derided Buddhism. In Berkeley. So I'd go with "willful contrarianism" as their actual political persuasion. And they're probably the closest to "antifa" that you'll get.

Too cool for a Free Tibet sticker on your panhandling guitar case.

 

[spacejunk]

I think you're cheapening the term "terrorist" by using it to sling at people who simply punch nazis.

I would call US drone operators who blow up villages full of women and children "terrorists", but i don't bother because it's pointless hyperbole.
A few brave souls standing up to nazis does not a terrorist make.

Don't be hoodwinked by the pro-fascist, pro-trump press - those people lie to and manipulate you.

Saying that anti-fascist activists are as bad as nazi murderers is a nonsense, and it makes you sound like you have a vested interest here.

What is your attitude towards racial equality campaigns? You seem to detest Black Lives Matter

 

[spacejunk]

I'm not defending nazis but I defend their right to free speech as abhorrent as I may find their views. Attacking right wing or racial protests is just giving them more attention. A lot of people antifa attack aren't even nazis anyways but I don't know why I'm even bothering.

Defending nazis is the most anti-free speech position on this issue.

 

[JessFR]

I think you might be cheapening the word nazi by using it to describe any right leaning people you disagree with.

I've been happy to go along with calling these people nazis when I've discussed this with you because I didn't want to sidetrack the discussion by disputing it when at the time it wasn't relevant. But now the time seems right so I'm gonna ask.

All these people you keep calling nazis. Would they really self identify as neo nazis? Or is this a label you've assigned them.

 

[Scrofula]

Neo-proto retro nationalist supremacist fascistic expealidocious. And Odin. Indistinguishable flavor-notes of the same vanilla.

Jess, that is not the same flavor as your usual right wing nut. We call them republicans, and they have some off-white hints sometimes.

 

[spacejunk]

I think you might be cheapening the word nazi by using it to describe any right leaning people you disagree with.

I've been happy to go along with calling these people nazis when I've discussed this with you because I didn't want to sidetrack the discussion by disputing it when at the time it wasn't relevant. But now the time seems right so I'm gonna ask.

All these people you keep calling nazis. Would they really self identify as neo nazis? Or is this a label you've assigned them.

I'm not calling anyone a nazi that isn't obviously a part of that world.
People that talk of "white ethnostates" and "ethnic cleansing" are all part of this toxic trend.
The alt-right? Sorry, they're nazis. No matter how much they try to sanitise and prep-up their image, if you march around chanting "blood and soil", bashing black people, and seig-heiling - then you're a nazi.

But it's really not what we're talking about here, is it?

If people are going to call community activists "terrorists", they're both cheapening discourse and setting a pretty poor precedent in terms of responding to resistance.

Remember the people that called Martin Luther King a terrorist? Not worth taking such sentiments seriously, especially when crowds of antifascists are getting mowed down with cars, ISIS style.

If you say "antifa are just as bad" you're being dishonest.

 

[JessFR]

Sooo, they don't self identify as nazis? That's what I was trying to work out.

Propaganda, branding, it's all fascinating isn't it. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, one mans nazi is another mans patriot, one mans community activist is another mans lynch mob. If you bring up a child to believe something you agree with its responsible parenting. But if you disagree it's indoctrination. All in the perspective.

 

[spacejunk]

Sure, but modern day nazis are trying very hard to make their fringe lunacy mainstream.

that's not indoctrination. Genocide is never ok.

It's sad that it even needs to be pointed out that nazism is the antithesis of everything that is good and successful about democratic society and institutions.
Nazism is, by definition, violence.

We're seeing this played out in the mobs that follow the modern fash about, fighting, stabbing and shooting anti-racist and anti-trump demonstrators.

Nazism is not ok. Not in any form.

If it takes a few blows to the head to stop these boneheads from mobilising and kiling more people, so be it.
I shed not a tear for fascists; if they don't want to get confronted, they have a simple option; stop being a nazi.

As people have pointed out before, those targeted by nazis don't have the choice to stop being non-white, non-christian, non-heterosexual, etc etc.

There's only one side doing the killing here. That's why people stand up to these sick little cowards.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Nazi “I want to kill millions of people because of their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation and political views”

Antifa “I want to stop that guy by any means necessary”

Priesttheycalledhim “I literally can’t tell the difference!”

 

[JessFR]

Man. Frequently I find the bullshit level gets so high I find myself at a loss for words. What is there to say with people who are so far gone they can't see straight anymore.

I can't tell the difference either. Both sides are just fanatics morphing their enemy into some inhuman monster to justify being exempt from the rules. The underlying issues seem to long be forgotten.

 

[spacejunk]

If you attended a rally, or spent some time reading fash/anti-fash literature, you'd quickly notice the difference IMO.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Man. Frequently I find the bullshit level gets so high I find myself at a loss for words. What is there to say with people who are so far gone they can't see straight anymore.

I can't tell the difference either. Both sides are just fanatics morphing their enemy into some inhuman monster to justify being exempt from the rules. The underlying issues seem to long be forgotten.

The difference is that between the oppression of minorities and the suppression of anti-social and anti-human behaviour.

 

[JessFR]

If you attended a rally, or spent some time reading fash/anti-fash literature, you'd quickly notice the difference IMO.

I think you're seeing it from a different perspective to me. See I'm not talking about ideological differences or differences in political opinions.

I'm saying the underlying human feelings and behaviors and faults are all the same.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

I would call US drone operators who blow up villages full of women and children "terrorists", but i don't bother because it's pointless hyperbole.

Of course you would resort to calling members of the armed forces 'terrorists', the eagerness of people on the far-left to do so is always right there under the surface. Whilst I would agree that the use of drones, or smart bombs, or any such aerial bombardment has and always will be a method with a high level risk of collateral damage, it is not a terrorist act or an act being committed by terrorists. To even suggest equating the two is ridiculous and demonstrates the self-hatred inherent in the far-left, it's always there.. all too eager to bash anything that lends support to national interests but absolutely stone silent on any incoming threats to national interests because "we're too busy fighting injustice and the fascists (in the white community).

It's all too easy for you to sweep up anyone with right-wing views into this category of being Nazi's or actually far-right. And not just you, but the mainstream media too. You say the media lies.. yeah, it does, repeatedly. The BBC in the UK is unbelievably left-wing, it runs through the organization from balls to bones, and continues to misreport the facts or just ignore stories altogether when it suits their particular narrative. Yeah there are Nazi's or National Front type people or whomever, but these people are an unbelievably small minority in the UK, ridiculously small minority. But then you get legitimate groups such as the EDL for example who always wanted to exercise their right to voice discontent on an actual issue not being recognized by local or national governance, who threw out and rejected the National Front types whenever they tried to infiltrate or turn up to demos which is a fact would always get deliberately lost by the media who were always too happy to blur the lines to suit their spin. Groups of people like that are not Nazis or far-right, they are ordinary people who are just pissed off with actual issues going either unreported, unresolved or uncontested by local or national governance (or both).

The thing is the "anti-fascists" are always too happy to turn up and conveniently sweep everyone who shows the slightest hint of national interest into this far-right camp, following in the footsteps of the mainstream media who live in their quaint little metropolitan liberal bubbles. If you were just protesting and trying to stop actual Nazi's that would be one thing, but you're not though.. it's any group or individual who displays any sort of right-wing opinion. Though when it comes to Islamic extremist groups in the UK there has been nothing, nada, zilch (and no protest from feminist groups either).. except when people like the EDL protest about it and then you turn up to stage a counter-demonstration, siding with the rights of those Islamic whackjobs to shout death to the armed forces and our national interests! You should be siding with the EDL for example in those cases, not opposing them, but as always you don't bother to make the distinction between actual Nazis, like the National Front, and genuine protest groups who are just fed up.

Until Antifa and other far-left groups actually learn the distinction between Nazis and right-wing people with legitimate grievances, and continue to use violence whilst claiming it is justified, then in reality you are actually no different from fascists you claim to oppose.

 

[JessFR]

It doesn't happen very often... But I think I agree with SS.

 

[mal3volent]

If you were just protesting and trying to stop actual Nazi's that would be one thing, but you're not though.. it's any group or individual who displays any sort of right-wing opinion.

I don’t see antifa at pro life rallies or tax cut rallies. They did show up to that one in Charlottesville though, the one where the Nazis were chanting “Blood and Soil” and killing people.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

I don’t see antifa at pro life rallies or tax cut rallies. They did show up to that one in Charlottesville though, the one where the Nazis were chanting “Blood and Soil” and killing people.

Pro-life and tax cut rallies (are these even a real thing?) are more generic political issues that don't have the weight of hot-topic status to justify drawing large antifa crowds. I don't pay much attention to US news but I'm sure one could find some examples of antifa thugs becoming hostile or violent to the pro-life crowd though, given the pro-life people are generally religious Christians thus making them an easy target for blind liberal bigotry.

 

[spacejunk]

To me it seems really naive to think that anyone should tolerate toxic ideologies that openly discuss killing them and anyone else they don't like.

SS, i've read enough of your opinions about islam, women and so on to fully understand why you support nazi thugs.
I mean, you share a lot of views with nazis, even if you're outraged at the suggestion you might be one yourself.

That's ok - whatever man - believe whatever you want - but your opinions on how to protect our communities from fascism is kinda worthless if you cannot even condemn racism, and you simply take sides with the hateful.

the anti-fascists i know are driven by love, not hate. If boneheads, nazis, fascists or other "white nationalist" bigots get hurt while they try to mobilise and intimidate/assault/murder people, that's ok. They're the ones trying to start a war, we're defending our communities.
Did britons shed tears for nazis killed in the blitz? I think not.

And we're winning. The alt-reich has fragmented since the Charlottesville terror attack, and the emboldened nature of fascist organisation post-US elections is evaporating as quickly as a trump promise.

There will always be small-minded, fearful, racist people on this earth - but fortunately by their very nature, they're not very good at organising or making friends. Hate will do that.
We stop them organising, and we stop them killing, because that is what decent communities do.
It's not up to police or governments to put fascists in their place - it's the job of everyone who has their fucking heart in the right place.
We will endure this fash-in-the-pan, and we will defeat fascism...again.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

Where have I ever praised, celebrated, promoted, championed, or even said I tolerate people who openly discuss killing others for their views! Not once have I ever said I support the Nazis or anything remotely connected to them. All you're doing is proving the point I made that whenever someone with right-wing or conservative views airs their opinions around your type then you immediately try to lump us into the Nazi camp. Frankly it's really insulting and to be honest if people are getting moderated in real life for equating all Islamic followers to terrorists then I don't see why you should be allowed to get away with stating such nonsense. You're supposedly against hate but once again the hypocrisy comes right out doesn't it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for being so childish given that this is the internet and you can't see what I look like or get a real world impression of my character.. all you see is text you disagree with and project some image on to it of who you think I am.

You're so unbelievably condescending and patronizing with your preachy left-wing "love vs hate" ideology it borders on nauseating. 10 years ago I would have probably sided with a lot of your views as I was more left-wing, though never far-left, but I changed my mind on a lot of issues by continued reading, listening, and real world experience. I may change as I learn more in the future. But at no point have I ever said it is acceptable or sided with people who think it's OK to kill others for their views or speech. I may have thought it more acceptable to use violence 10 years ago when I was early twenties, when I was more brash and loud mouthed, and funnily enough left-wing in my views..

I'm still waiting to see Antifa supporters in the UK, or Unite Against Fascism supporters, gather to protest about Islamic extremism that is festering and simmering away in this country. That is the most toxic and dangerous ideology in this country right now, so much so that the security services can't keep track of all of them, and we'll inevitably suffer another horrific attack again and again from that group.. but yeah, keep blathering on about Nazis mate because they're done soooo much damage with their toxic ideology in recent times. It's only a problem to you when it's a white issue.. anyone else gets a free pass.


Are you going to speak up and discuss the problems with Islamic extremists? Or even discuss the issues with Islam itself in regards to its views on women, homosexuals, non-muslims, and so forth? Or is that not an issue for you because they're not white.