Another Look At Why Alcohol May Be More Dangerous Than Heroin

[neversickanymore]

Another Look At Why Alcohol May Be More Dangerous Than Heroin
MICHAEL B KELLEY
SEP. 14, 2014, 5:04 PM

An authoritative 2010 study led by former UK drug czar David Nutt found alcohol to be the most dangerous drug in the country. The research rated 20 drugs based on 16 criteria: nine related to the harms that a drug produces in the individual and seven to the harms to others.

"Our findings ... accord with the conclusions of previous expert reports that aggressively targeting alcohol harm is a valid and necessary public health strategy," the authors of the study wrote.

Another way to view the study's findings has been published by 12 Keys Recovery. The infographic details types of harm caused by each drug and looks at the two types of harm. Alcohol stands out, especially in regard to collateral damage.

Continued with allot of graphs and charts http://www.businessinsider.com/another-look-at-why-alcohol-may-be-more-dangerous-than-heroin-2014-9

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I love boomers

 

[Smoky]

I agree, and not just because it's legal. Alcohol can cause aggression, more DUI s, and is very dehydrating… Also, can cause death with withdrawal… Also, Korasakoff (spelling?) syndrome. I never liked it but would use it in-between other drugs, when nothing was around, and the hangover was simply awful. The need to drink water to get rehydrated… as if fish out of water.
Profit, supply and demand …

 

[Jabberwocky]

I just realized they sell Ethyl Alcohol diluted to 70% at the local chemist. What, that's like 151? If you don't mind a little acetone and the most bitter ingredient I could imagine (denatonium) in your cocktail. And to think I met a woman once who had been binging on isopropyl alcohol for a month. Saddest day ever...

 

[S.J.B.]

I just realized they sell Ethyl Alcohol diluted to 70% at the local chemist. What, that's like 151? If you don't mind a little acetone and the most bitter ingredient I could imagine (denatonium) in your cocktail. And to think I met a woman once who had been binging on isopropyl alcohol for a month. Saddest day ever...

I work in a histology lab, so I'm surrounded by gallons and gallons of 95% and 100% ethanol, none of it denatured.

 

[slimvictor]

I agree that alcohol is more "dangerous" than heroin, if we can assume that it is pharmaceutical - quality heroin.
Because of the drug war, you can't trust random heroin that you buy on the street, though.
For this and other reasons, I would rather drink wine than shoot smack.

 

[421]

Heroin will hook you much faster though. And has a pretty small therapeutic window (for lack of a better term).

But hey if you really wanna experience danger take them at the same time, with some benzos too.

 

['medicine cabinet']

Why the hell do they have butane on the list lol? Do ppl actually huff on that to get a high?

 

[421]

Why the hell do they have butane on the list lol? Do ppl actually huff on that to get a high?

Absolutely. Probably one of the most common inhalants.

 

[ro4eva]

Heroin will hook you much faster though.

Like all µ-opioid full agonists available for prescription, chronic and long term use of diacetylmorphine (heroin) will indeed result in a physical dependency.

However, as someone who has been physically dependent on both heroin and ethyl alcohol, I was very surprised at how quickly my body became tolerant and dependent on the booze. It only took about 4 days of chronic consumption of alcoholic beverages before I began to notice some rather scary withdrawal symptoms.

Most people probably don't know that though because it appears that the more common method of enjoying the intoxicating effects of booze is to binge drink for a night, and then to spend the following day to recover from the hangover.

The one thing that alcohol has going for it is its short half-life - that and its ability to kill the germs on my hands (hand sanitizer for the win). If it had a half-life of, say, ~6-8 hours, then it would most definitely result in a lot more overdoses and deaths.

And has a pretty small therapeutic window (for lack of a better term).

How so?

Taking tolerance into consideration, it's not like it has a ceiling dose, does it?

Granted, the typical narcotic painkiller side effects are always something to consider and monitor (with increasing frequency as the dosage increases) - which they pretty much always are in a medical setting at least.

Edit - It's too bad that heroin is not available for prescription for the treatment of severe acute and/or chronic pain (in the US and Canada), because perhaps it would be better tolerated by a significant number of patients. Who cares if it makes them feel abnormally happy (akin to the feeling that someone gets the first time they fall in love). Why is this so evil when the person may need to feel some love after decades of needless pain and suffering? Just because they feel this way doesn't necessarily mean that they will suddenly turn into hardcore addicts - just like countless people who have gotten drunk did not become alcoholics. We've seriously gotta do away with such a messed up mentality.

 

[Crankinit]

I agree that alcohol is more "dangerous" than heroin, if we can assume that it is pharmaceutical - quality heroin.
Because of the drug war, you can't trust random heroin that you buy on the street, though.
For this and other reasons, I would rather drink wine than shoot smack.

The study is referring to street heroin, not hypothetical pharmaceutical heroin - thus the inclusion of factors such as crime.

I'd agree of course that pharmaceutical diamorphine would be much safer still.

 

[neversickanymore]

Which produces a better euphoria boomers or herion?

 

[theWhiteLarryBird]

I noticed that methamfetamine is on the graph. Now, that doesn't seem right, does it businessinsider.com.. 8)

 

[dankplantgrower]

I went to the hosital this morning after vomiting blood, and within an hour another guy in the next bed was in too for some type of alcohol related damage. Both in our 20s. Sad thing is I almost came home and drank again bec ause of the WDs... Sometimes I shake like a leaf sometimes my motor coordination deteriorate moreso. Ive become so accustomed to shakes that it iisnt a big deal but the sober motor coordination impairment can really be a bitch. Almost fell in the shower.

 

[421]

The one thing that alcohol has going for it is its short half-life - that and its ability to kill the germs on my hands (hand sanitizer for the win).

Fantastic cleaning agent for sure! The only thing I would recommend it for.

And has a pretty small therapeutic window (for lack of a better term).

How so?

Taking tolerance into consideration, it's not like it has a ceiling dose, does it?

The dose that gets you nodding isn't very far from the one that takes you six feet under. Yes, what those doses are will depend on your tolerance of course.

Edit - It's too bad that heroin is not available for prescription for the treatment of severe acute and/or chronic pain (in the US and Canada), because perhaps it would be better tolerated by a significant number of patients. Who cares if it makes them feel abnormally happy (akin to the feeling that someone gets the first time they fall in love). Why is this so evil when the person may need to feel some love after decades of needless pain and suffering? Just because they feel this way doesn't necessarily mean that they will suddenly turn into hardcore addicts - just like countless people who have gotten drunk did not become alcoholics. We've seriously gotta do away with such a messed up mentality.

Oxycodone has better oral bioavailability, why prescribe heroin? Plenty of pain management patients do seem to turn into hardcore addicts though, so there is a dark or evil side to it. It's a difficult situation with no simple solution.

 

[ro4eva]

Oxycodone has better oral bioavailability, why prescribe heroin? Plenty of pain management patients do seem to turn into hardcore addicts though, so there is a dark or evil side to it. It's a difficult situation with no simple solution.

The only reason I can think of is because oxycodone is also apparently a κ-opioid receptor agonist, which may result in the manifestation of unique adverse effects.

I don't know about others who have used various opioids - including oxycodone - extensively, but I've noticed that it indeed does present certain effects which I have never experienced with codeine, morphine, hydromorphone, meperidine/pethedine, fentanyl, heroin, methadone, and so forth.

One of these unique effects I recall was very red/puffy eyes - even when using an antihistamine. Another was a sudden intense dysphoric feeling of severe weakness - just happens randomly for some reason.

That doesn't mean however that I thought oxycodone was a shitty opioid. On the contrary, I found it preferable because it was never as sedating as the others, which in turn allowed me to work pain free, and without nodding away.

It's too bad that opioids get such a bad rep. Yes, they do cause a physical dependency to develop, and yes, they can be very habit forming, but for many patients out there suffering from severe and long term chronic pain, it's the only thing that seems to work.

Our society has such unrealistic and arrogant expectations at times. I bet that would all change in a heartbeat if everyone had to suffer with chronic pain in the same manner as the aforementioned patients.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've had very similar experience with oxycodone, and according it was never exactly my DOC. The "therapeutic window" for most street (or even pure heroin when strength is known) actually isn't really an issue. I mean, at least when compared to something like fent or dillies (thinking IV here). Besides, most opioid ODs aren't just opioid ODs, they're alcohol and opioid ODs or some other mix of drugs.

 

[ro4eva]

I've had very similar experience with oxycodone, and according it was never exactly my DOC. The "therapeutic window" for most street (or even pure heroin when strength is known) actually isn't really an issue. I mean, at least when compared to something like fent or dillies (thinking IV here). Besides, most opioid ODs aren't just opioid ODs, they're alcohol and opioid ODs or some other mix of drugs.

Yeah, stupid me overdosed the first time I decided I could handle combining opioids with booze (oxycodone + beer). Never again. Never thought that one day I'd end up thanking someone for pumping my stomach. And I even apologized after I was cleared to go home for wasting the hospital's resources because of my sheer stupidity (at least I earned a little admiration that day from the doctor for humbly apologizing to him and the nurses). I was a reckless moron, and it nearly got me killed. Yeah...

Oh right - now that you mention it, I've never overdosed solely on opioids. It was always a combination of an opioid + GABAergics.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yup, that's pretty familiar, cept it was oxycodone, zolpidem, a flight across the US and lots of my girlfriend's dad's scotch collection and her family's house - soooooo embarrassing...

I mean, I've OD'd solely on heroin twice I think, but it wasn't nearly fatal (well, it easily could have been, as I was alone and if I'd vomited I could have asphyxiated, but it didn't necessitate any hospital trip and all I ended up with was a very sore neck).

Most people would be totally surprised about it. Fatal ODs involving ONLY heroin are quite rare and finding documentation of them is, as far as I know, more or less impossible. They almost always involve another drug, most commonly a gabaergic drug as ro points out like benzos or booze, or another opioid that the user is (or isn't) aware of, like hot shots involving dope cut with fent. Actually one is a lot more likely to OD on something like fent than heroin when no other drugs are concerned. This is especially true for those with a tolerance, but it goes for opioid naive people too.

I'm not saying there isn't any danger, but just that it's almost always significantly overstated.

 

[neversickanymore]

By far out of the people I know that have OD, it was opiates and benzos that got them and out of those the vast majority were methadone and xanax. When I OD and aspirated and wound up on a ventilator for four days it was herion, hydrocodone, and xanax. Booze and benzos can be pretty dangerous, not super easy to die from, but has a tendency to make people do stupid things and get killed or end up in jail.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yea, your absolutely right about the especially methadone and xanax (any benzo really, just especially short acting potent benzos like alpra). That combo really does scare me. I mean, I won't touch the many 1mg alprazolam pills I have for this reason.

What scares me the most is that the combo makes it so that I don't even know what I'm doing sometimes, especially when I really need to be self aware. It's like the type of blackout where physically you're fully functional, but only with like 10% of your normal ability to reason.

At best you end up doing stupid shit that causes personal problems. At worst you end up really fucking up (like driving, crashing and getting a DUI), or you just simply stop breathing and die. That synergy is fucking evil man, and I am VERY hesitant to ever use that word when it comes to drug use.

Popular though.

I still do take diazepam occasionally for legit purposes though, and if I need to sleep or want to catch a buzz I'll limit myself to temazepam. But it's gotta stay super infrequent or shit gets out of control asap. Anything shorter acting than temazepam or more potent than diazepam and I have to stay away from it these days. I'm just sick of dealing with that little stupid things that no sane person would ever do, or putting myself at such risk for OD... Can't imagine what the risk for someone who was both opioid and benzodiazepine naive would be

In any case I'd rather drink a beer with my dad, have a glass of wine with dinner, a cocktail on a date, smoke a joint with friends of do a couple lines of ketamine by myself :D