anhedonia, sleepiness, fatigue, lack of concentration, memory, motivation.

[magniloquentcunt]

Hello there, im here to ask for suggestions in how to treat the problem i have and that im going to expose here:

My story: 4 years ago i did 9 months of fluoxetine for Dysthimia. In these months i did some mdma from time to time, like 3 times maybe, nothing too damaging i guess, but i could feel euphoria energy and positive feelings.
I have always been a VERY horny person (i call it being a scorpio, my parners call it being a perv). Well the libido disappeared totally during fluoxetine, both the desire to and the "mechanical" capability. After i quit the fluoxetine, i tought: "lets wait, the med will flow out, eventually going to take a while, but ill get my "horniness""". Nope. I had some sort of total genital anaesthesia, zero libido (even though the desire reappeared VERY slowly) and erection even three years after i stopped. Besides these sexual, lasting side effect, i also have problems of hypersomnia, apathy, unmotivation, ZERO concentration, being totally passive in situations that would expect me to get aggressive or defend myself, and the most annoying of all, feeling nothing. I have a terrific gf at the moment and i feel so bad for her, because inside me i know that i should be feeling something, but i dont. I dont feel joy, anger, sadness, affection, nothing. I love her, my brain knows that, but i dont feel anything in my chest. I guess that falls in the ?anhedonic+depersonalization? spectrum. Anyhow, given the situation, i tought i should at least get my penis back to work. Went to see an urologist which prescribed me Cialis. Did not want to take it at first, but then i cut one 2.5mg pill in four and took a part. One-time pill. My dick is back at work, morning boners included. I never took Cialis again and 6 months have passed, i get erections easily. I also started taking ginseng(and gingko, but its the ginseng for libido) and i can say it really works for me, horny much more than before, and it also helps a bit with the fatigue in the morning and the eternal fight getting out of bed. The problem is the genital anaesthesia, that did not go away: it take around 1h to get there, sometime 40mins sometime 2h... I really dont know how to deal with that. I believe it is really related to having that weird feeling of not feeling my body, or feeling it weird, like a permanent strangeness. Has anybody ever felt this and found a remedy?

 

[laCster]

nvm my bad. if you keep telling yourself you have anhedonia, then you are never going to be sable to find happiness. be in the moment; or think where your feet are.

 

[whippa craka]

Another +1 to the danger of SSRI's - with no benefit.

They need to be banned from this earth. It's only shown to truly work for severely clinically depressed folk. If you are not severely clinically depressed, it is not worth taking these drugs (just read above.....)

My only tip to you is to change your lifestyle. You need to do something to kick start your libido and endocrine system, something rewarding. Hitting the gym on a bi-daily basis, socializing with friends nights out at the bar's, playing sports etc...

 

[Swimmingdancer]

nvm my bad. if you keep telling yourself you have anhedonia, then you are never going to be sable to find happiness. be in the moment; or think where your feet are.

To me it didn't sound like the OP was constantly telling himself he can only feel that way. Anhedonia is just a word to express how he's feeling, meaning "the absence of pleasure and/or joy". We need to be able to describe how we feel in order to get help. But I do get your point that negative self-talk can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, like if someone believes they can't feel happy and energetic and feel pleasure it's likely they won't. Our minds are very powerful and changing our thinking can be very beneficial.

OP - I am female but am going through a very similar thing as you, only it wasn't caused by fluoxetine. It seems to be caused by a combination of tapering off opioids and being in a serious accident, although I was also on antidepressants around the time this started so perhaps that could have something to do with it. I never really thought of it before because I was only on an SNRI for a few months.

As for solutions, that's a tough one. I'm really glad the cialis and ginseng are helping you, that's great at least. Are you saying it's been 4 years since you stopped the fluoxetine and these issues started? I would highly recommend you see a naturopath or functional/integrative medicine doctor. Figure out a treatment by yourself will likely take a ridiculous amount of trial and error and be a lot more expensive in the long run. You should also be tested for things that could be contributing to this like hormonal imbalances, vitamin deficiencies, and circulatory, brain or nerve problems. Do you feel the strangeness and anesthesia all over or just in the genitals? Do you have weird sensations in your skin?

It's only shown to truly work for severely clinically depressed folk.

I don't think they've even been shown very effective for that. Perhaps you mean a very specific type of depression?

 

[ro4eva]

i call it being a scorpio, my parners call it being a perv

lol

Well the libido disappeared totally during fluoxetine, both the desire to and the "mechanical" capability. After i quit the fluoxetine

SSRIs (fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, etc.) are known to possibly cause long term changes to a male's libido. I went through exactly the same thing as you when I was taking sertraline (Zoloft) for 8 months. However, the difference between us that I was switched to bupropion (Wellbutrin XL) which apparently can have the opposite effect on libido. Therefore, after I switched, everything relating to sexual function went back to normal for the most part - but if I stop taking it, I have a lot of trouble maintaining an erection and I also have that loss of feeling (total genital anesthesia) you wrote about. I'm kinda ticked off when I think about it because both of my psychiatrists seem to love handing out prescriptions for SSRIs because, "they're really safe and non-addictive and have few side effects." - bullshit to that. I wonder if I should sue.

i also have problems of hypersomnia, apathy, unmotivation, ZERO concentration, being totally passive in situations that would expect me to get aggressive or defend myself, and the most annoying of all, feeling nothing.

Again, I believe this is due to long term changes in your serotonin induced by down regulation of receptors due to the selective inhibition of serotonin reuptake caused by the fluoxetine. Ask an "expert" and they'll likely never admit to you that they feel the fluoxetine is to blame.

The problem is the genital anaesthesia, that did not go away: it take around 1h to get there, sometime 40mins sometime 2h... I really dont know how to deal with that

Isn't your gf happier about that, sexually speaking?

I believe it is really related to having that weird feeling of not feeling my body, or feeling it weird, like a permanent strangeness. Has anybody ever felt this and found a remedy?

You mean brain fog? Or depersonalization? Or both? Brain fog (a type of cognitive dysfunction) usually feels like what you are describing. AFAIK, it can be caused by certain drugs (Rx and/or street), certain illnesses such as Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, etc. I've had to live with brain fog for a little over 7 years now. However, I find that the medications I'm currently taking are a big help in terms of helping manage it. That would be a combination of Wellbutrin XL and Xanax. I don't know why it works, but it does. I was a guinea pig for a few years - was on several different antipsychotics and antidepressants before I found the right combo that works best for me.

 

[magniloquentcunt]

nvm my bad. if you keep telling yourself you have anhedonia, then you are never going to be sable to find happiness. be in the moment; or think where your feet are.

I know its difficult to put yourself in someone elses shoes, and i happen to come out with philosofical pre-prepared sentences like this sometime too, but i used to have emotions, i remember the feeling, now it does not happen anymore, not in one direction (happiness) and not even in the other (sadness). Some people might think its a good deal, i personally think its not, because its obvious that one loses thrive for life and his whole reward system gets fucked up pretty fast

 

[magniloquentcunt]

You need to do something to kick start your libido and endocrine system, something rewarding. Hitting the gym on a bi-daily basis, socializing with friends nights out at the bar's, playing sports etc...

I do all these things, actually ive been to the a endocrinologist who had me checked because of a mistakenly high prolactine analisys, well it came out it was just a lab error and my hormons are perfect. He asked me if i do sport, i answered "yeah, once or twice a week, pro forma". I actually do not feel better after sport and never used to. I am very selective about the people i go out with, i get bored very easily (it makes me sound like a dick but thats how it is)

 

[magniloquentcunt]

You should also be tested for things that could be contributing to this like hormonal imbalances, vitamin deficiencies, and circulatory, brain or nerve problems. Do you feel the strangeness and anesthesia all over or just in the genitals? Do you have weird sensations in your skin?

Ive been doing a complete blood test and nothing came out, besides slightly low hemoglobine which is in my family genes. I would say i feel the anesthesia all over the body, which is what probably makes me feel weird, and it shows more in the genitals because, well, we all know what they're supposed to make you feel. I remember that when i was on SSRI i tought that i could feel myself "patron of my own body". so maybe its only something that i already had, forgot about while on ssri, and now its back (i have terrible memory since the ssri and have like "gray zones" in my memories of the past years which i cant recall)

 

[magniloquentcunt]

lol



1) However, the difference between us that I was switched to bupropion (Wellbutrin XL) which apparently can have the opposite effect on libido.

2) I believe this is due to long term changes in your serotonin induced by down regulation of receptors due to the selective inhibition of serotonin reuptake caused by the fluoxetine.

3) Isn't your gf happier about that, sexually speaking?

4)You mean brain fog? Or depersonalization? Or both? Brain fog (a type of cognitive dysfunction) usually feels like what you are describing.

1) Ive been doing a lot of reading about bupoprion and it seems it is the way to go to reverse some of the ssri induced side effects: of course gaining some others in exchange... There was even a researhc named "The profile of bupoprion for SSRI induced side effects", which included loss of libido, weightgain and... emotional blunting! the first two were proven but nothing came ouf for the third for lack of research already done on that topic. Anyhow, if you could describe your experience on wellbutrin, i guess it could help me making a decision on wether to risk further or to stay as i am.

2) On that purpose ill be consuming some L-tyrosine in the next weeks, to see to what extent dopamine is the cause. I believe it really is because of a dopamine-serotonine imbalance, even tho l-tyrosine ends up metabolized to norepinephrine aswell.

3) yes she is i could say, even tho she does not see much expression on my face because most of the times i dont feel much pleasure at all. Plus she comes faster than me and sometime her p*ssy hurts.

4) I believe i mean brain fog and also depersonalization, actually its probably the brain fog that frustrates me more: i cant focus on anything, i can stare at a document read it but i do not suck in the infos, its like everything flows out straighta way. Also i cant concentrate on one task and end up looking at something else after two minutes. I believe provigil is supposed to do something for that.

 

[ro4eva]

Before I answer to your post, it's probably important that you know a little about my situation. I've been diagnosed with panic disorder, depression and fibromyalgia.

1) Ive been doing a lot of reading about bupoprion and it seems it is the way to go to reverse some of the ssri induced side effects: of course gaining some others in exchange... There was even a researhc named "The profile of bupoprion for SSRI induced side effects", which included loss of libido, weightgain and... emotional blunting! the first two were proven but nothing came ouf for the third for lack of research already done on that topic. Anyhow, if you could describe your experience on wellbutrin, i guess it could help me making a decision on wether to risk further or to stay as i am.

Pros:
- mild stimulant which helps me to concentrate/focus better
- mild but consistent/stable mood lift (no ups and downs or crashes)
- seems to clear some of the brain fog, which is quite a relief
- mild to moderate increase in libido
- appeared to have an antidepressant effect within the first week of starting it
- helps reduce nicotine cravings big time
- helped me shed 60 pounds that I gained while trying all the other crap (SSRIs, antipsychotics) in about 12 weeks

Neutral:
- reduces appetite
- there is no recreational potential (however, that's of little concern to me as I'm not taking the stuff for fun)

Cons:
- find it makes me irritated at times for little or no reason
- difficult to get some sleep on (but the Xanax takes care of that)
- there's a small chance you could develop a seizure (I've experienced one seizure while on it so far - not fun, but it was partly my fault, long story)
- there is a physical withdrawal if you decide to stop cold turkey (very similar to a recreational stimulant crash, but milder - depression, lethargy, headache, tired/sleepy, trouble concentrating)
- there is no generic version of Wellbutrin XL**, therefore, if you don't have some sort of insurance coverage, it could cost you quite a bit
- there's a chance you may develop a tolerance to one or more of the positive effects (for example - my doc now has me on 10mg of Ritalin twice daily because I've been on the highest dose of Wellbutrin XL for a few years and I began to notice that 300mg wasn't cutting it anymore in terms of concentration/focus, so I asked him if he could up me to 450, but he said no, in turn he said yes to the ritalin)

** The time-release mechanism in Wellbutrin XL is still patented. As a result, generic timed release versions of Wellbutrin XL are now thought (one has been proven) to work (possibly dangerously) differently.[1]

[1] FDA says Teva antidepressant is ineffective (October 4th, 2012) - http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/10/04/fda-says-teva-antidepressant-is-ineffective/

2) On that purpose ill be consuming some L-tyrosine in the next weeks, to see to what extent dopamine is the cause. I believe it really is because of a dopamine-serotonine imbalance, even tho l-tyrosine ends up metabolized to norepinephrine aswell.

Alright, but remember to stop with the L-tyrosine if you are started on Wellbutrin XL because it is a Dopamine/Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor.

3) yes she is i could say, even tho she does not see much expression on my face because most of the times i dont feel much pleasure at all. Plus she comes faster than me and sometime her p*ssy hurts.

You should be proud, usually it's the other way around (the climaxing part). Don't mind me, I'm just trying to get you to look on the bright side.

4) I believe i mean brain fog and also depersonalization, actually its probably the brain fog that frustrates me more: i cant focus on anything, i can stare at a document read it but i do not suck in the infos, its like everything flows out straighta way. Also i cant concentrate on one task and end up looking at something else after two minutes. I believe provigil is supposed to do something for that.

I'm the same way. However, the Wellbutrin XL really makes a difference.

One more thing, there is an immediate release version of bupropion (Wellbutrin XL) available in generic form. However, it requires that you remember to take it 3x daily. Also, I find it's not as effective as the XL form in terms of consistency (e.g., there is a noticeable up, down and crash feeling between doses which the XL version seems to lack.

 

[magniloquentcunt]

May i ask if you did stop taking it for some time? like more than a couple of months? and what were the "permanent" side effects? What i fear the most is ending up with insomnia and agitation for the rest of my life, like trading a side effect for another... by the way i believe the side effects and especcialy the seizures grow literally exponentially as you increase dosage... so i guess the ritalin might make sense! Actually im thinking of either bupoprion or provigil...

 

[shreddedlettuce]

Could give modafinil a try?

 

[magniloquentcunt]

does it leave any side effects? im kinda suspicious when it comes to pills that alter the brain now...

 

[ro4eva]

May i ask if you did stop taking it for some time? like more than a couple of months? and what were the "permanent" side effects? What i fear the most is ending up with insomnia and agitation for the rest of my life, like trading a side effect for another... by the way i believe the side effects and especcialy the seizures grow literally exponentially as you increase dosage... so i guess the ritalin might make sense! Actually im thinking of either bupoprion or provigil...

At one point, roughly about 3 years ago, I did stop taking the drug cold turkey and stayed off it for about 6 weeks but never more than that. The withdrawal isn't as severe as I may have made it out to be (and it's not even close to what I've had to go through during benzo and/or opiate withdrawal). Yes, it is a 'crashing' feeling consistent with other recreational stimulants, however it's milder, and it's sorta like methadone in that it's longer, more spread out than other stims.

As far as I could tell, there are no negative long term changes other than that you feel like you did before you took the stuff. So if the stuff makes you an insomniac, that doesn't last after stopping treatment. If it helped you lose weight and reduced your appetite, you'll probably gain back that weight. If it increased your libido, you'll most likely be back to square one.

In terms of positive long term changes however - Before going on the stuff, I remember feeling really depressed, no energy, chronically fatigued, not interested in anything, etc. I felt like I was in a chronic stim comedown. 3 years later, coming off of it, although I did experience some loss of energy, some fatigue and some mild depression, it wasn't nearly as severe as the state I was in when I first went on the drug. Therefore, I believe that the Wellbutrin XL may have induced some positive long term changes in my noodle.

Be that as it may, it should noted that antidepressants tend to affect anyone taking them quite differently. Therefore, I can't guarantee you that the Wellbutrin will work for you as it did for me.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I know a few people who were on bupropion and stopped taking it and noticed no lasting adverse effects. They say withdrawal was mild to nonexistent for them. They also felt like it helped some of their symptoms even after they stopped taking it, like it had provided a jump-start to get used to feeling good and motivated again. From what I've heard it seems like a better all-round antidepressant than a lot of other ADs. Biggest complaint is irritability.

 

[ro4eva]

Biggest complaint is irritability.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one experiencing this, however I'm also not surprised that it's the biggest complaint (if that makes any sense).

If someone were to ask me what's the worst side effect I've experienced while on the stuff, it's most likely always gonna be irritation (and in the past too same answer).

I did have one seizure on it, but looking back, the conditions were right I guess. As long as you don't crush the stuff up and try to snort it, you're not in the middle of a benzo or alcohol withdrawal when starting treatment, and you don't suffer from epilepsy or some sort of seizure disorder, your chances of actually having a seizure are pretty slim (0.1 to 0.4% according to at least one source in the wikipedia article).

magniloquentcunt - One other thing I wanted to add (and I'm sorry if this upsets you, but it's probably in your best interests that you read through it) is a link to information on what's known as Post-SSRI sexual dysfunction. Unfortunately, for some male (edit - and female, sorry) patients who've stopped taking an SSRI antidepressant, any Sexual Dysfunction-type side effects they've experienced during treatment may become permanent. It is interesting to note that the Center for the Evaluation of Risks to Human Reproduction has now classified Prozac (fluoxetine) as a reproductive toxin. I cannot help but assume that either Prozac or Zoloft (I was on both for several months at moderately high doses) also permanently damaged my ability to achieve and maintain an erection. Anyways, here's the link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_SSRI_Sexual_Dysfunction

 

[Galaxyshock]

Of course dopamine is a big problem here. SSRI do nothing but bomb your serotonergic system and dopaminergic transmission is fucked. You'll end up blunted, demasculinized and unable to feel alive. Bupropion sure can help as a dopamine-reuptake-inhibitor but supposably it mostly affects noradrenaline so it may not be ideal. Something like selegine should be more better.

Of natural substances Mucuna could work it's quite powerful at boosting dopamine. Adaptogens like ginseng can definitely support any treatment.

 

[magniloquentcunt]

Im really happy about what has been said in the last posts, that is that some people have noticed permanent improvement in their symptoms. I personally think of myself as an almost pristine, mentally speaking, human being: This given the mildness of my symptoms (still very debilitating thou) and the previous use of only 1 major substance, namely fluoxetine. I really do not want end up taking more pills, but i believe there must be a way to change things for better, and in a definitive way.
I believe some users have tried Mucuna with long lasting positive effects. That might also be an option. Ill try to contact these people and gather some more accurate insights.
About the famous permanent side effects of SSRI, i believe i have got partially ruined by them, but since my situation has gotten really better with a fourth of a pill of cialis and some over the counter ginseng, i feel theres still a lot of space for hope!

 

[no_id]

Hello there, im here to ask for suggestions in how to treat the problem i have and that im going to expose here:

My story: 4 years ago i did 9 months of fluoxetine for Dysthimia. In these months i did some mdma from time to time, like 3 times maybe, nothing too damaging i guess, but i could feel euphoria energy and positive feelings.
I have always been a VERY horny person (i call it being a scorpio, my parners call it being a perv). Well the libido disappeared totally during fluoxetine, both the desire to and the "mechanical" capability. After i quit the fluoxetine, i tought: "lets wait, the med will flow out, eventually going to take a while, but ill get my "horniness""". Nope. I had some sort of total genital anaesthesia, zero libido (even though the desire reappeared VERY slowly) and erection even three years after i stopped. Besides these sexual, lasting side effect, i also have problems of hypersomnia, apathy, unmotivation, ZERO concentration, being totally passive in situations that would expect me to get aggressive or defend myself, and the most annoying of all, feeling nothing. I have a terrific gf at the moment and i feel so bad for her, because inside me i know that i should be feeling something, but i dont. I dont feel joy, anger, sadness, affection, nothing. I love her, my brain knows that, but i dont feel anything in my chest. I guess that falls in the ?anhedonic+depersonalization? spectrum. Anyhow, given the situation, i tought i should at least get my penis back to work. Went to see an urologist which prescribed me Cialis. Did not want to take it at first, but then i cut one 2.5mg pill in four and took a part. One-time pill. My dick is back at work, morning boners included. I never took Cialis again and 6 months have passed, i get erections easily. I also started taking ginseng(and gingko, but its the ginseng for libido) and i can say it really works for me, horny much more than before, and it also helps a bit with the fatigue in the morning and the eternal fight getting out of bed. The problem is the genital anaesthesia, that did not go away: it take around 1h to get there, sometime 40mins sometime 2h... I really dont know how to deal with that. I believe it is really related to having that weird feeling of not feeling my body, or feeling it weird, like a permanent strangeness. Has anybody ever felt this and found a remedy?

Typical SSRI induced iatrogenic condition. Thanx your doctor.

What you can do :
- being scarred shitless
- hoping for that shit fading away.

 

[bronson]

Closed as this is a bump of a very old thread. Feel free to start a new one if something that had been being discussed in here is of interest to you. PM any questions.