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...and on a serious note

@

*@ngel*

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 12, 2001
Messages
64
Location
Australia
Okay, here I am sitting at my putie thinking. And one thing that has been bugging me since the discussion about Gang rape, has been abortion.
I know, I know it's 'one of those topics' but I'm really quite interested in what other peoples opinions are on the subject as a whole.
*{I apologise in advance for any offence that may be taken from this post}*
Personally, I dont agree with abortion, purely because I dont think I could live with myself if I was responsible for my own childs death. And in my opinion the situation itself is a huge deciding factor, cause for some people a decision based purely on emotion isn't enough. As for me, {being the emotional type} I dont think I would have the strength to take on such a responsibility. The thought wouldnt even pass my mind, because in my opinion it's not the end of the world to have a child.
But I came to this topic by thinking 'what if' the pregnancy was due to a rape occuring? I then go ahead and completely contradict myself by thinking that if the pregnancy occured because of a rape, then it's okay to terminate your childs life. Although if you ask me for a valid reason I can't give you one. It just seems like a justifiable situation.
I'm just curious to know how other people feel on the topic. Do you think you would be ready to have a child if you were confronted with the situation at this point in your life?
Just a bit of non-dribble from my corner of the ring.
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"...'tis morning; Pleasure and action make the hours seem short..." ~Iago.
 
From Www.wisdomsdoor.com
This is an issue that is griping the planet because people don't believe in an afterlife, or that things happen for a reason. Sometimes abortion can be a good thing. It is a good thing when a mother is not ready to be a mother or when there is a medical reason a woman can not carry a baby.
The soul of course is never destroyed. And in an abortion the soul returns to where it came, of which it is still a part of. In the beginning of conception and fetal development, the soul is only inside the growing fetus perhaps 10% of the time. The rest of the time it is back with its friends in whatever dimension or level of the nonphysical that it comes from. Eventually as the actual birth approaches, the soul will spend up to 50 to 60% of the time inside the baby. After birth this jumps to 80 to 90%. By the age of two the soul is fully integrated into the new physical body of the baby.
The death of a baby at the age of 2 onward is in fact a more damaging condition than an actual abortion before this point. Now this does not mean there won't be any emotional hurt or damage as can happen during an abortion. Often the new soul and the mother will go through an emotional depression afterward and this can be bad if either the mother or the soul does not take it well or adjust to the fact of the loss.
 
"Personally, I dont agree with abortion, purely because I dont think I could live with myself if I was responsible for my own childs death."
"..terminate your childs life."
It isn't a child, it's usually an embreyo, sometimes a foetus. Even at birth and not until then, it is a baby.
This isn't a case of nitpicking, loading your language with false pretence doesn't help clarify issues and meanings about abortion, but fills it with misinformation.
By saying something as insenstive as this you are almost as worse as the picketers. You are calling women who have practised the right to choose as "guilt-ridden murderers."
Please THINK before you post.
" the soul is only inside the growing fetus perhaps 10% of the time..the soul will spend up to 50 to 60% of the time inside the baby..."
Percentages of soul?!?! Where is your empirical evidence of such a thing?
Please do not post such drivel from a psued-scientific website!
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Braja, *@ngel*, I apologise somewhat for my hostile tone, but you realise these are sensitive issues and if you are going to post, you should be aware of the philosophical and polemical debates you are getting yourself into.
Why does a drug discussion board go to these topics anyway? While I'm not one to censor shit this IS a moderated forum, they are TOTALLY UNRELATED to drugs or drug culture, I vote for this thread to be shut before it turns nasty for no other reason than people flaming one another in a shouting match of who can repeat their view the most without courtesly assessing the others' arguments, (on both sides).
-F.
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I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times;
Nothing's equivalent, to the New York state of mind.
-Nas
[This message has been edited by Fireal (edited 08 September 2001).]
 
Fire: What if "circumstances" *FORCE* you to have to take the abortion option...and you do have to lose the child, just because whats in stake...?
frown.gif
 
"What if "circumstances" *FORCE* you to have to take the abortion option"
Klown: I don't understand the nature of your question? Elaborate on "circumstances" and "force" please.
No higher power forces a woman to have an abortion, it is a difficult process and choice. And it should stay that way, a choice.
"to lose the child"
What child?
Again, abortion is not a ritual of taking a walking person to the bush to be put down.
(see my post above.)
-F.
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I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times;
Nothing's equivalent, to the New York state of mind.
-Nas
 
" Please do not post such drivel from a psued-scientific website "
Its Hermetic Philosphy..
Deffinatelly not drivel My friend.
Braja
smile.gif
 
To those of you who don't 'agree' with abortion - have any of you ever been in the position of having to make the decision? How can you have an informed or educated opinion if you haven't?
This makes me sad when people make generalising, judgmental comments without thinking. Do people know that 40% of women between the ages of 18 and 45 have had an abortion in the U.S.? Probably similar stats here in oz as well. Thats a huge percentage of the population who has had to make an extremely difficult decision and live with it - not to mention their partners as well. A huge percentage of the population that you've written off as 'taking the life' of their children.
Abortion is not a simple solution nor are there any simple answers.
There's no place for emotional, sweeping statements - this helps no-one. @ngel, there's most probably a few people on this board who've been involved in abortion one way or the other and you have more than likely hurt them considerably by your comments, not to mention brought back some bad memories. And who are you to assume that women who choose to have abortion are not 'emotional' like yourself? Do you honestly think that women walk away from something like that lightheartedly?
You've hurt me and made me very sad today. Please think before you post.
 
All it comes down to is this..
Life is full Of choices And obstacles.
We all have the right to live our life the way we want . Sure we are going to make some mistakes along the way, but that is life.
We also have the right to live our life withought Judgement From others.
Sure we can Have our own opinions , but to come down on someone in any way .. and to make out that they are less of a person that you are , is just not right.
others from out side this board would judge us as " Drug users "
Understand where im coming From..
Peace.
Braja
[This message has been edited by braja (edited 09 September 2001).]
 
Me thinks each case must be assessed individually. i don't think bring a child into the world who will not be loved or regreted is such a good idea. i know someone who was an 'accident' and gets shyte from their single parent mother everyday about how she could have been something if it were not for him. Consequently, he has a low self esteem, is a drug addict and has attempted suicide many times. He distances himself from ppl and avoids friendships at all costs. It seems his sole aim in life is to kill himself. But again, this is an individual case - by no means am i implying that the majority of mothers in similar circulmstances would behave this way. Infact, i'm sure its more of an exceptional case. Its a hard decission but i think it is a decision which can only be made by the parents involved. It is for society to accept and respect this decision either way.
What i have issues with is women who become pregnant and have an abortion without telling the father. I know that most feel that its the womans decision and i can respect that since she is the one carrying the child (foetus... whatever) for 9 months and ultimately the responsibility of raising the child will usually fall on them. (i know there's child support but money cannot buy contact hours) But from personal experience i think the father has the right to know that the woman is pregnant and wants an abortion before she goes ahead with it. After all its a difficult thing for both parties to deal with.
 
Well said cancle - the fact is, abortion is illegal in most states in Australia - there is a legal/medical loophole here however that allows women to have terminations without being arrested. Most clinics in this country are safe and accredited medical clinics also.
However, with negative attitudes towards abortion in a lot of other countries not as fortunate as us - this means women are having terminations in unhygienic, unsafe conditions.
Safety for women is paramount, and the person who used the words 'pro-choice' - I agree wholeheartedly. This is not about people applauding abortion, this is about people being allowed to choose whether they wish to be a parent.
Perhaps the question shouldn't be whether you could have an abortion, perhaps it should be, "could I be a parent?" taking into account the fact that some people have no support, emotional or financial.
[This message has been edited by **Jazz** (edited 09 September 2001).]
 
The only objection I have with abortion is when it's done late in the pregnancy. That IS killing a baby.
Many people hit puppies on the head to kill them just after birth. I find this worse than abortion of humans.
I see it as rather than "killing" a person, you are not allowing it to become a person. You are not allowing it to experience all the good things about life, but also it will not experience all the negative things in life. There is no telling whether their life would have been positive or negative, so the action of abortion is neither positive or negative.
Also, I think having a child is a very selfish act (most of the time). If you have love to give, why not give it to a child who is already in the world but has no one to love them?
Hypothetically, if you gave birth to a child, another child without parents may have a terrible life and die in the gutter never being loved. OR: If you abort, and then later adopt a child, thus stopping them from having a terrible life, this could arguable be a better choice! who knows? *shrug*
 
Fireal is right...
Choice is where it's @ people...
I just wish the pro-lifers (more like anti-choicers) would shut up and realise that they're acting like a bunch of prats trying to force women to have babies that aren't wanted...
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Try combining a sense of childlike wonder at the beauty of the world, with cynicism at the state it's in, and stay sane. It isn't easy...
 
such a touchy topic... personally, i think that it should be totally up to the mother. if she wants to have an abortion, she should be allowed. once the baby is born (or it's passed the point where abortions work), it's her problem. till then we should at least grant unwilling mothers a choice.
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wisest is he who knows that he does not know...
 
I agree that it is upto the mother. What I have issues with, however, are those who end up having to make this decision due to their irresponsible behaviour of not bothering with contraceptives.
 
this is a really touchy topic for a lot of people.. me included.. i think especially in a topic as sensative as this one, it's important for people to think before they write.. u are quite within your rites to voice your opinion... just make sure u dont write it in a way that will offend someone else.. their emotions will already be stirred up, and something said carelessly can be taken way out of hand..
on saying that..
once the baby is born (or it's passed the point where abortions work), it's her problem.
Click to expand...
when is a child ever a problem? a child is part of you, and part of the reason we are here in the first place. a person should not be persecuted for their decision to carry an unplanned child or to terminate it or to pass it up for adoption.. life is all about choices, so why should someone be told what to choose...
for anyone who is going through this situation, or knows of someone going through this situation, please do not push your choice upon them.. simply support them in whatever THEY choose...
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For a good time, call Lucy (02)82500327
 
Muzby: In defence of apollo* I am assuming s/he did not mean the child was >the problem< but the process of choice.
You quoted:
once the baby is born (or it's passed the point where abortions work), it's her problem.
Click to expand...
Rather than:
if she wants to have an abortion, ...it's her problem.
Click to expand...
Although on the whole I agree with you, language shouldn't be used flipantly in such an area.
-F.
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All I wanna do is run my own universe, grab the mic and let my spirit just flock when I croon a verse.
-Blackalicious
 
Okay, first of all I want to apologise profusely for hurting anybody. It was not an attempt to force my opinion on anybody in the slightest. I know it is a touchy subject and my intentions were not in any way directed at harming anybody. I am sorry for any pain that I have caused, by all means it was not intentional.
It has just been on my mind lately and I was curious as to what other peoples opinions were on the subject. In no way was I trying to harm somebody by asking such a question.
Please dont put words into my mouth, as I havent done so for you. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I never said that I dont agree with abortion. And I can understand how people may have taken my wording incorrectly. The fact is, you can't always word your opinion in the fashion that others would agree with. I am sorry that I came across as insensitive to the matter, I never meant it like that. I didn't set out to generalise such a topic and I didn't intentionally start a flame war. I just wanted a few opinions, that is all.
I agree with people having the right to their own decision, and I never said that it wasn't a tough choice to make. Please dont take my tone as judgemental because by all means it is not.
My apologies to anybody hurt by this. I will delete this post if you would like. All I was asking was for a few sides to a story, I apologise that it was taken in the wrong manner.
 
When it comes to abortion, there are 2 conflicting sets of values, the rights of the mother and the rights of the child, these are not necessarily exclusive sets but when in conflict these things need to be taken into account,
PREVENTION- Is the unwanted pregnancy caused by negligence?
The lack of contraception in 3rd world countries is another issue, but given the facilities, availability and cost of birth control it should be used, If you cant afford it can you afford to take the risk of having kids?.
RAPE, If the child is unwanted consider factors beyond its birth, this child if it is unloved would be brought up as a product of rape not as a gift of life, perhaps it is a greater good to abort this child and avoid unnecessary suffering for both child and mother?
I honestly believe pro-choice is the only responsible option, however this does not negate the responsibility to the child, we should try and avoid unwanted pregnancy. The most difficult part is that pro choice begs the question, does the mother really have the right to make the decision for the child. When it comes down to it I guess it all depends on the situation [unfortunately but this doesnt seem to be how our judicial sytem functions].
on an anal bitch monkey note, Braja we do Not have the right to live our lives without judgement of others, yes maybe in a perfect world this would work, but fuck perfect worlds people judge cause they're people and any rights you think you have are only cause people do not want the same done to them.
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Hell is other people
 
and just a quick note to the 'its up to the mother'. What about all the 'baby making machines' on the dole that have 5 screaming kids usualyl sick, not fully clothed being dragged around by a mother thats having kids just to get more money from welfare? In Geelong, there is a suburb named 'corio' which is notorious for these kind of people. They are generalised in Geelong as being known as 'corio scum'. I feel the sanity/mental capability of the mother should be looked at and if she *ISN'T* capable of making an informed sane decision of having a baby or not, a professional should. It only takes a few minutes of pleasure to make a life time of misery for an unwanted child.
 
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