Anaerobic drying to preserve potency

[Policethepolice?]

We know that when shrooms are dried, the levels of psilocin and psilocybin drop, most likely because of the exposure to large amounts of oxygen, relatively warm temperatures and the fact that water is present for most of the procedure.

If the mushrooms were to be dried under a vacuum or dry nitrogen, would this effect be reduced? Do we know the pathways through which these chemicals decompose, and would the absence of oxygen prevent this decomposition?

 

[fastandbulbous]

If you want to preserve as much potency as possible, freeze drying is the way to go as it inhibits the enzyme that degrades psilocin & give the blue colour to bruised mushroom flesh. Only thing is it generally requires dry ice & a vacuum pump

 

[polarbearsarecool]

look into wine preservation equipment(not the search term) but you can buy the inert gas that wine makers use to preserve wine and the apparatus for extremely cheap(on ebay) compared to the traditional methods ...

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Has anyone tried drying them over dessicants like H2SO4 or P2O5, in an atmosphere of inert gas, such as computer 'duster'?

How hot does the enzyme need to get to denature F&B? do you think microwaving for a very short period of time might be enough to disable the enzyme prior to drying without affecting the goodness content too much?

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ The heat from microwaving had chance to degrade a fair bit psilocin, so it doesn't seem viable. Dessicants like P2O5 will work, but don't denature the enzyme which is responsible fro the degradation, so will only offer a slight improvement on air drying (have used anhydrous calcium chloride in the past with only a slight improvement - much better than corrosive shit like phosphorus pentoxide or conc sulphuric acid)

 

[Policethepolice?]

Bearing in mind that the active chemicals are quite heat-sensitive, I don't think that the microwave would be wise, as it does not heat evenly, but more in hotspots, particularly on a molecular scale.
I imagine freeze-drying would not inhibit the enzyme so much as slowing the reaction to a halt with the removal of water and heat, crucial components of many oxidations.

Personally, I would not want to keep highly toxic chemicals around a product designed for human consumption. These powerful dehydrating agents would be very useful for accelerating dehydration under atmospheric pressure, but a vacuum has the advantage that it is non-toxic and excludes oxygen.

 

[fastandbulbous]

I imagine freeze-drying would not inhibit the enzyme so much as slowing the reaction to a halt

Same thing - my bad at using the wrong words! (enzyme knetics at -20'c are virtually nil)

 

[MurphyClox]

Didn't try it, but P2O5 should dry mushrooms effectively to a water content of next to 0%. Do this in a desiccator and concomitantly apply an atmosphere of nitrogen or better argon. That should preserve the most alkaloids.
P2O5's toxicity is neither very high nor of any great importance unless you powder your shrooms with it.

Freeze drying requires very effective (!) vacuum pumps (roughly 4000 €), liquid nitrogen or at least solid CO2 for the freezing and of course a freeze dryer. Well, the latter could be improvised. It's a very energy-consuming technique and I'm not convinved that it will safe some money. The more alkaloids that you get are no comparison to the energy spent for their drying.

I doubt though that the layman will be allowed to buy P2O5. For a good reason. Use calcium chloride instead. It's OTC, much safer and furthermore recyclable for the next round. Drying capability is much lower but still enough for this application.


- Murphy

 

[LawnChairSkank]

Hey Murhpy, Would drying them under a vacuum without removing the heat destroy any more alkaloids than just using a desiccant?

 

[Policethepolice?]

If anything it should destroy less than just a desiccant, as they would be dried faster. An absence of oxygen can only mean good things for the preservation of sensitive chemicals.

 

[MurphyClox]

^In general, I'd recommend for drying magic mushrooms:

- room temperature
- vacuum
- a drying agent (CaCl2 or P2O5 if you can afford it)
- inert gas (N2 or Ar)​

...for maximum yield.

- Murphy

 

[fastandbulbous]

Could always use pitassium pyrogallate in the dessicating chamber - it removes all of the oxygen