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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Amphetamines, Lithium, and Dopamine Antagonists

A

Andrew Marc

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
13
Hi,
Over the last year I?ve been on a combination of lithium (450mg), Latuda (40mg), and Adderall (40mg). On this combination, I was not able to feel the Adderall at all. Then I switched to Zyprexa where I took 2.5 mg twice a day. I slowly titrated off that while starting up with Vyvanse which I am on 50mg a day. I have been off of Zyprexa for about 30 days. And I still take lithium carbonate 300 mg a day. Why can I not feel Vyvanse at all?
 
Lets keep this as simple as possible vyvanse may be about 30 percent amphetamine.

50 mg * 0.3= 15 mg

Going from 40 mg of dl amphetamine or 30 mg of d and 10 mg l amphetamine to ~15 mg is a large difference.
 
Tolerance is most likely a major contributing factor. You do need to understand that the other medications that you're taking, as they change your cognition, are going to lead to either a decreased subjective potency or might blunt the effects of the Amphetamine. For instance, it's a fairly commonly reported experience, that when certain individuals have started, say, treatment with SSRI drugs, the report the same experience of a blunted experience with Amphetamines. I know I have experienced such and effect when I've taken Amphetamines while taking 40mg Fluoxetine (Prozac). It's not a universal condition, but it seems to be common.

Both Lurasidone (Latuda) and Lithium are pretty powerful medications in terms of their effect on your psychological experience. These medications are prescribed for the very purpose of producing a fairly radical change in the way that you think. For this reason, I feel like it shouldn't come as a surprise that the Amphetamines are underwhelming you. They are both Mood Stabilizers. The idea is, among other things, that the drug will help produce a more stable state of mind without ups and downs or radical mood change.

In conclusion, tolerance is probably playing a role, but I would actually expect a blunted experience with the Amphetamines while taking these medications. I think this is probably a normal response as opposed to being out of the ordinary.
 
Keif' Richards said:
In conclusion, tolerance is probably playing a role, but I would actually expect a blunted experience with the Amphetamines while taking these medications. I think this is probably a normal response as opposed to being out of the ordinary.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. Mood stabilizers are expected and issued to prevent peaks/crashes and would be expected to interfere with Amphetamines as they serve different purposes.
 
What about Lamictal and Zoloft? Would that blunt the force as well. (Also sorry for over-posting this in a number of forums, I just didn't know where to post this too).
 
serotonin syndrome, yippee, can't wait for that ! Just kidding. Do you know about Lamictal blunting an amphetamine? Also you think if I stopped taking lithium (safely of course) this would no longer be a problem?

 
You definitely should not be thinking about ceasing your antipsychotic medications just to feel a more potent buzz from your Amphetamines. I'm not talking down to you, but these medications are typically prescribed for conditions that may be considered more severe than your everyday case of depression. We would have to know a little bit more about your situation, but in general, I wouldn't recommend anyone to stop taking any medication just for this purpose.
 
Keif' Richards said:
You definitely should not be thinking about ceasing your antipsychotic medications just to feel a more potent buzz from your Amphetamines. I'm not talking down to you, but these medications are typically prescribed for conditions that may be considered more severe than your everyday case of depression. We would have to know a little bit more about your situation, but in general, I wouldn't recommend anyone to stop taking any medication just for this purpose.
Click to expand...

I agree with Keif 100%. If your mood stabilizers are prescribed and medicational it's not worth risking a bipolar/manic depressive episode to get a buzz for 5 hours.
Stay safe,
Tez
 
Hi thanks for your input. I'm actually not on any antipsychotic medication at all right now. My doctor even agreed that we would peel off the lithium. I had taken it after having a manic episode related to cyclothymic vulnerability about a year and a half ago. And I'm actually not really looking for a buzz from amphetamines. I'm simply frustrated that my medication (Vyvanse) specifically isn't very effective at doing its primary job which to me is improving my concentration. Does that give you a better understanding?
 
Andrew Marc said:
Hi thanks for your input. I'm actually not on any antipsychotic medication at all right now. My doctor even agreed that we would peel off the lithium. I had taken it after having a manic episode related to cyclothymic vulnerability about a year and a half ago. And I'm actually not really looking for a buzz from amphetamines. I'm simply frustrated that my medication (Vyvanse) specifically isn't very effective at doing its primary job which to me is improving my concentration. Does that give you a better understanding?
Click to expand...

It does and in your case I have two answers;
Either
1-Increase dosage as necessary in reaction to tolerance
Or
2-Try NMDA antagonists(dissociatives) to revert and prevent tolerance
And
3-All of the above if 1 and 2 do not work by themselves
Love,
Tez:)
 
Another possibility might be that the Adderall just feels underwhelming in comparison to the manic episodes you used to have before starting mood stabilisers (I'm guessing you're bipolar?).
 
Last edited:
I'm actually not bipolar. I have cyclothemic vulnerabilities but not even full on cyclothymic. So I never even experienced mania (of course with the exception of one time a year and a half ago). Adderall used to work really well for me but the dopamine antagonists agents I've had to take plus the
lithium renders that sort of medication completely useless.
 
OldMacDonald said:
For myself, I'd be looking to take lithium out of the equation whenever there are a lot of prescribed and/or recreational drugs. Lithium's therapeutic range isn't very far from the level where one experiences toxicity. Speaking of which, have you been getting your levels checked on lithium? I know some older guys with wrecked kidneys because lithium levels were inadequately monitored.

Polypharmacy is Russian roulette somewhat. Lithium is the drug listed in your mix that's the most confounding and hard to manage. If your doctor agrees I'd drop it as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

I would agree completely. Lithium's therapeutic range is too close to toxicity for comfort. Perhaps multivitamin, selenium, paroxetine can be employed for mood stabilization? You should however ask your doctor before attempting to self medicate.
Stay safe,
Tez
 
Andrew Marc said:
Hi thanks for your input. I'm actually not on any antipsychotic medication at all right now. My doctor even agreed that we would peel off the lithium. I had taken it after having a manic episode related to cyclothymic vulnerability about a year and a half ago. And I'm actually not really looking for a buzz from amphetamines. I'm simply frustrated that my medication (Vyvanse) specifically isn't very effective at doing its primary job which to me is improving my concentration. Does that give you a better understanding?
Click to expand...

I apologize if I might have offended you. Just to be clear implying that you're "looking for a buzz" is not supposed to have any negative implications. As far as making the decision as to what medications to stop, start or reduce, you just need to take an inventory of what is most important to you in terms of your day-to-day functioning. It sounds like you're not married to the mood stabilizing agents, but you wouldn't be the first patient to make the decision that they don't need Lithium, when perhaps they do. I'm not making accusations.

My primary point would be not to make extremely rapid changes in any medication. Not only can it be detrimental, but it can be difficult to attain perspective on what works and what doesn't when you move too quickly in this regard.
 
I have been on lithium 1200 mg a day for years without side effects or any detectable subjective difference from my daily use of 55 mg adderall xr. The only side effect ive ever had was a slight tremor when I was dehydrated and needed a lower dose.

Everyone is different but I know that since being on lithium w. a antidepressant* my suicidal thoughts and attempts and desire to be dead went from a daily nonimpulsive "f*** you guys whyd you bring me back to life i hate all of you" to near zero suicidal thoughts ever.

* The reason I attribute it to lithium is ive tried antidepressants without a reduction in the strong desire to be dead because i hate living.

I agree with kief.
 
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