Amphetamines and vitamin C

[Crankinit]

Having spent entirely too much time reading about various drugs on the internet, I'm constantly coming across references to the effect vitamin C has on amphetamine metabolism, usually suggesting that high vitamin C levels reduce the effects of the drug.

Being a recreational amphetamine user (primarily methamphetamine, but also dexamphetamine on occasion), as well as having a keen interest in harm reduction/neuroprotection, this is something I'm really curious about, since I've been experimenting with different supplement regimes to try and minimize the negative side effects of speed use. Since I started using again last August (after a year or so's break), I've noticed highly variable effects across different sessions, and I'm trying to figure out whether the inclusion of a high dose of vitamin C in the regime at various occasions could be a factor in that (obviously the usual suspects of mindset, fatigue, tolerance, product quality etc. also come into play).

Now having done my own reading, the only mechanism I've come across by which vitamin C could impact the immediate effect speed has is by acidifying the stomach and reducing oral absorbtion. Which could come into play when dosing dexamp orally, but doesn't seem like it would when snorting/smoking meth.

Anyway, I was wondering if somebody a bit more knowledgeable than myself could fill me in on whether it is possible for vitamin C to otherwise influence either the metabolism of amphetamine or the subject effects it causes?

Thanks :D

 

[drewskie]

For what I can find vitamin C will decrease the metabolization of apmhetamines which results in decreased obsorptin of the drug. This is is especially true for adderall as the antioxidant effects of vitamin C results in the acidification of the intestinal tract inturn causing decreased obsorption of the drug. You should avoid taking vitamin c an hour before ingestion of amphetamines and two hours after ingestion. On the other hand, studies suggest that vitamin B6 can help with the side effects of amphetamines , such as anxiety. It has also shown that vitamin B6 does not interfere with absorption rates. L-tryptophan has aslo shown to have the same effects as B6 does.

There is a great web site that has an EXTENSIVE list of amphetamine drug interactions. It is quite interesting more than most would think. The site is:

www.merck.com/mmpe/lexicomp/dextroamphetamine.html

It is not a blog but an actual drug info link by a pharm group.

 

[seep]

ascorbate is a cofactor in the enzymatic conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine. Striatal levels of ascorbic acid increase after amphetamine administration.

Full text: On the mechanism of d-amphetamine-induced changes in glutamate, ascorbic acid and uric acid release in the striatum of freely moving rats

 

[homeydontplaythat]

any acid would affect the plasma levels of amphetamine if taken orally. any other roa and it is moot.

 

[chainsawr]

For what I can find vitamin C will decrease the metabolization of apmhetamins wich results in decreased obsorbtin of the drug. This is is especially true for adderall as the antioxidant effects of vitamin C results in the acidification of the intestinal tract inturn causing decreased obsorption of the drug. You should avoid taking vitamin c an hour before ingestion of amphetamines and two hours after ingestion. On the other hand, studies suggest that vitamin B6 can help with the side effects of amphetamins , such as anxiety. It has also shown that vitamin B6 does not interfere with absorption rates. L-tryptophan is aslo shown to have the same effects as B6 does.

holy fucking shit, lrn2spell check

 

[Qnick]

holy fucking shit, lrn2spell check

as far as the internet goes, that post was pretty well spelled.


cut him some slack, everything was completely legible and just because it wasn't perfect doesn't mean there isn't clearly valuable and discernible information in what he wrote.


Thanks for the info drewskie

 

[chainsawr]

as far as the internet goes, that post was pretty well spelled.

keep that shit grammar in BDD. on the internets, i make the rules.

NSFW:

:D

 

[drewskie]

thanks

as far as the internet goes, that post was pretty well spelled.


cut him some slack, everything was completely legible and just because it wasn't perfect doesn't mean there isn't clearly valuable and discernible information in what he wrote.


Thanks for the info drewskie

Thanks for sticking up for me and appreciating the point of the post other than just reading it for it grammatical correctness. I just wrote it on the fly not really paying attention to the details of spelling. I just hope that the info was of some help, thats what I posted it for, content. As for chainsawr, unless you have some valuable info to share about the topic at hand, then quit lurking.

 

[drewskie]

Really?

keep that shit grammar in BDD. on the internets, i make the rules.

NSFW:

:D

I might be new but I don't think that this is the reason for BL. I was in hurry and might have made some grammatical errors. I think that you should be more interested in the content rather than the grammer, especially at the level that you are at within the BL commuity. I don't want to make enemies with you, as I am a peaceful person. Please don't degrade this site with acting like this please. We need to keep BL held to the upmost standards, because there is a rare and special community that has developed here. Thank you and have a great day. Next time I will try harder to keep an eye on my spelling as I don't want to come across as an uneducated idiot.

 

[chainsawr]

I might be new but I don't think that this is the reason for BL. I was in hurry and might have made some grammatical errors. I think that you should be more interested in the content rather than the grammer, especially at the level that you are at within the BL commuity. I don't want to make enemies with you, as I am a peaceful person. Please don't degrade this site with acting like this please. We need to keep BL held to the upmost standards, because there is a rare and special community that has developed here. Thank you and have a great day. Next time I will try harder to keep an eye on my spelling as I don't want to come across as an uneducated idiot.

no harm no foul. while the OP and people in this thread might understand what your trying to say, anyone down the line would have a harder time searching for the information in your post, and further most browsers have an auto spell check feature so it's always good to take the extra minute to check spelling before submitting. i'm not sure where the mods for this forum are though, they should be doing this.

 

[grue]

Your answer:

It's not just absorption from the stomach.

Metabolism -- Amphetamines aren't just hepatically metabolized; they're metabolized by the kidneys and excreted in the urine at rates that can vary from 1-75%.

Acidification of the urine can hasten renal excretion of amphetamine.

This is all in the United States clinician monographs for amphetamine products, and in fact acidification of the urine is touted as a hospital strategy for amphetamine overdose ... if myoglobinuria is not present.

 

[Crankinit]

Your answer:

It's not just absorption from the stomach.

Metabolism -- Amphetamines aren't just hepatically metabolized; they're metabolized by the kidneys and excreted in the urine at rates that can vary from 1-75%.

Acidification of the urine can hasten renal excretion of amphetamine.

This is all in the United States clinician monographs for amphetamine products, and in fact acidification of the urine is touted as a hospital strategy for amphetamine overdose ... if myoglobinuria is not present.

Funnily enough, I did some more reading tonight on the subject and came across an article which said the exact same thing. So I guess yeah, I have my answer.

This may be a little below the scope of this board, but if that's the case, is there anything that can be conveniantly dosed to raise the urine pH and counteract this effect? Ideally something in pill form that can be carried around while on a speed run?

 

[boohigh]

The answer is VITAMIN C, man !
Easily dissolved 1 gram ascorbic acid are avaliable in any drusgstore.
I have heard it's not recommended to have more than 4 grams of ascorbic acid in day.
Or eat a lemon . (Ha-ha, freaked oud speed user eating lemons is funny picture

 

[grue]

This may be a little below the scope of this board, but if that's the case, is there anything that can be conveniantly dosed to raise the urine pH and counteract this effect? Ideally something in pill form that can be carried around while on a speed run?

Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda. also available in tablets) comes to mind. Or potassium or magnesium bicarbonate.

Tums is an option, but I would tend to recommend against a lot of calcium loading on top of amphetamine unless you want to exaggerate certain negative effects.

Of course, there are possible issues with dosing alkaline agents all the time.

Green vegetables are going to alkalinize the urine as well -- it's true. Never mind the weird alt. health stuff that links everything to body acidity/alkalinity -- the data on this subject has existed for a long time.

Eat a big steaming bowl of spinach mayhaps. Healthy all around.

 

[pofacedhoe]

if you eat a load of speed and then have a drink with vitamin cin it you will be pissing the speed out real quick. i ahve personally experienced this from a vitamin c added isotonic sports drink that killed my speed buzz (depressing at the time)

 

[seep]

Of course, there are possible issues with dosing alkaline agents all the time.

Understatement? And thanks for the spinach suggestion! I'm now seeing all kinds of tweaker references in Popeye cartoons, sorta like Scooby-Doo and weed.

I'm having trouble finding anecdotal reports on BL about coadministration of amphetamine and proton pump inhibitors. It seems to me that PPIs could possibly be superior to antacids and alkylating agents in decreasing the secretion of amps. Look at the mechanism of action of PPIs:

wiki: Proton pump inhibitors act by irreversibly blocking the hydrogen/potassium adenosine triphosphatase enzyme system (the H+/K+ ATPase, or, more common, gastric proton pump) of the gastric parietal cell. The proton pump is the terminal stage in gastric acid secretion, being directly responsible for secreting H+ ions into the gastric lumen, making it an ideal target for inhibiting acid secretion. Targeting the terminal-step in acid production, as well as the irreversible nature of the inhibition, results in a class of drugs that are significantly more effective than H2 antagonists and reduce gastric acid secretion by up to 99%.

Cimetidine (Tagamet) and ranitidine (Zantac) are H2 antagonists, by the way. They are not proton pump inhibitors so don't get confused by the search engine.

Also, nobody has talked about what ascorbate deficiency would do to the amphetamine experience. Like I said before, it's a cofactor in the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine. Nocturnal supplementation with Vitamin C might be a good idea.

 

[Gbrian9090]

Having spent entirely too much time reading about various drugs on the internet, I'm constantly coming across references to the effect vitamin C has on amphetamine metabolism, usually suggesting that high vitamin C levels reduce the effects of the drug.

Being a recreational amphetamine user (primarily methamphetamine, but also dexamphetamine on occasion), as well as having a keen interest in harm reduction/neuroprotection, this is something I'm really curious about, since I've been experimenting with different supplement regimes to try and minimize the negative side effects of speed use. Since I started using again last August (after a year or so's break), I've noticed highly variable effects across different sessions, and I'm trying to figure out whether the inclusion of a high dose of vitamin C in the regime at various occasions could be a factor in that (obviously the usual suspects of mindset, fatigue, tolerance, product quality etc. also come into play).

Now having done my own reading, the only mechanism I've come across by which vitamin C could impact the immediate effect speed has is by acidifying the stomach and reducing oral absorbtion. Which could come into play when dosing dexamp orally, but doesn't seem like it would when snorting/smoking meth.

Anyway, I was wondering if somebody a bit more knowledgeable than myself could fill me in on whether it is possible for vitamin C to otherwise influence either the metabolism of amphetamine or the subject effects it causes?

Thanks :D

Id like someone to revamp this considering to the best of my knowledge meth(amphetamine) no longer contains ephedrine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Id like someone to revamp this considering to the best of my knowledge meth(amphetamine) no longer contains ephedrine.

The assumptions made on the post you quoted are not correct. There were a bunch of studies done about amphetamine and methamphetamine metabolisation and excretion done in late 60s and early 70s.

Most of them found that it is the Ph in the kidneys that influences the rate of excretion by controlling the proportion of the drug or its metabolites that is re-absorbed (via kidneys) to remain psychoactive vs being passed on down through the urinary tract to be excreted in urine.

The rate at which this happens was often found to be independent of the volume of urine. So drinking heaps of water while acidifying your kidneys didn’t increase the clearance rate.

The Ph in the stomach does not seem to be relevant to the rate of clearance and it works more or less the same way with all ROA. Shortly after consuming methamphetamine orally it and its metabolites cannot be detected in the stomach or gallbladder. It’s all been absorbed already.

A couple of papers however have suggested that a higher pH increases the metabolisation of d-meth in racemic meth as well as increasing the amount of d-amp that is produced as a metabolite.

This kind of suggests that your body will contain more of the more deaireable and psychoactive d-isomers of both meth and amp if you increase acidity when consuming racemic meth - but it’s not clear to me that that results in a bump in your high because the levels were only measured in urine - on the way out after being produced downstream of any receptor activation or else after having delivered whatevet psychoactive effects they did.

 

[arrall]

A couple of papers however have suggested that a higher pH increases the metabolisation of d-meth in racemic meth as well as increasing the amount of d-amp that is produced as a metabolite.

I'm unsure if there has been any formal study on this, but both personal experience and a large amount of online anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that antacids significantly increase the absorption and effects of dextroamphetamine.

EDIT: Baking soda has been proven in studies to increase absorption and decrease excretion of amphetamines due to urinary alkalinization.

 

[Jabberwocky]

There are a dozen articles over the next 20 years from this one that report the correlation between acidic urinary Ph and excretion rate of amphetamine and methamphetamine.

A H Beckett, J A Salmon, M Mitchard, The relation between blood levels and urinary excretion of amphetamine under controlled acidic and under fluctuating urinary pH values using [14C]amphetamine, Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmacology, Volume 21, Issue 4, April 1969, Pages 251–258,

Abstract

Plasma, blood cell and urine levels of amphetamine were determined after the oral administration of S-(+)-[14C]amphetamine sulphate to two subjects under conditions of controlled acidic and fluctuating urinary pH. The decline in plasma concentration of the drug was more rapid under the controlled acidic conditions than under conditions of fluctuating urinary pH. Under controlled conditions, the concentration time profiles of drug and metabolite in urine or plasma (as opposed to body levels), were suitable for kinetic analysis. The apparent rate of urinary excretion of amphetamine was proportional to its plasma concentration only under the controlled acidic urinary conditions. Amphetamine was cleared from blood more rapidly than could be accounted for by glomerular filtration under acid conditions, but when urinary pH fluctuated, clearance of the drug could be accounted for by this route.

If you search google scholar for similar variations of the following there are lots of articles validating what I said originally. It’s quote well researched in animals and humans.

Stereoselectivity in the human metabolism of methamphetamine (or methamphetamine and urinary ph​