• Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

amphetamine tolerence, long term effects, recovery, management

S

streetsweeper

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 12, 2007
Messages
60
Hi people

I need some advice on my dexamphetamine use.
I have been battleing dependence on them for about a year now on and off...mostly on.
The last time I tried to quit I also stopped prozac and lamictal which I had also been on and off for about a year. I have been on antidepressants of some sort for about ten years. Basicly every antidepressant. Nothing works for more than a few days or weeks if I'm lucky.

Except Dexamphetamines

I stopped everything for almost a month, tried some selegile, citalopram briefly in this period, didn't work of course. Then I went back to my doctor and said fuck it, give me back my dexies. This is not being alive, this is living death. And he did.

And the world became clear again, everything sat right, I could think, I felt ok. What scares me morethan the barren wasteland my mind becomes without stimulants, is the fact that if I was well enough to realise how shit I feel without them I wouldn't cope. The lack of awareness that comes with it I think actually protects me.

I got my hands back on my own supply of them again and it all went gradually downhill from there. Although, my life is still infinetly better despite the chaos and conflict that has come with the dexies and I am also free of all other pharmaceticals which is unprecedented almost.

I held off today, didn't dose till late afternoon. I was reading an article about a woman and her schizophrenic son, sad story sure, but I just became overwhelmed with emotion and almost started crying. That what the dexies do, they are the off switch.
I remember before I even started abusing drugs, I was meeting some friends of my partner and I was just absolutely and totally mute, I was anxious but moreso it was that this anxiety just turned my brain off. I could not say a word and only utter the most feble of response's
We got some speed and I had one bump and it was like a tap turned on or a cork poped. Everything flowed effortlessly.

I think I need these drugs, nothing else has worked and my life is just total misery without them and I am misery to be around. So I need to know. Opinions, facts, thoughts, they will all be very appreciated.

What will be the effect of long term use of dexamphetamines at a particular level?
How can I minimise side effects
How can I minimise tolerence?
How can I withdrawl?
How long should a drug holiday be?
How long would it take for me to get back to baseline after stopping?
What alternatives to dex or ritalin can I use?
What time should I dose?

I need a management plan. I have a good doctor (GP) who is willing to dispense them for me every few days but he is really only guessing. . Any links, advice, whatever you can give me would be really appreciated. I have 300 tablets, which I will put in my doctors hands. I am using 5 - 10 a day at the moment on my own for about 3 weeks after abstaing for a month. I would like to get down to 2 a day I think.

I have a plan that goes along the lines of me turning up to my doctor every few days and he dispences the tablets to me except he drops them into bottles of water for me. That way I am limited in how much I take by the ammount of water I have to drink to get a dose and also stops me putting them under my gums to get a higher absorbtion of them.

I am an addict, when I know I am about to dose on them I get so excited, I use them even past the point of any posative effects during binges.

I want to give them up totally. You don't know how much I do. But I am a human potato without them.

This is Streetsurfer by the way, the misery drags on in a whole new guise haha
cheers
 
Have you tried one of the tricyclics that actually has CNS stimulant activity rather than most of the others that are somewhat sedating (the only one that comes to mind at the moment is protryptiline (Concordin in the UK)? I've had them prescribed one winter for my SAD and it was not that different to low dose amphetamine without the euphoria (only produced a very mild stimulant type mood life - most of the effect comes from the classic way tricyclics revers depression).

In your case, the best antidepressant sounds like it would be amineptine, but you can thank the FDA for fucking up the possibility of obtaining it from most other coubtries
 
From what I've noticed, there seem to be 3 distinct types of depression. One form seems to be treatable via serotonin (SSRIs), one form that opiates/cannabinoids seem to treat, and a third that seems to work through dopamine and is relieved by amphetamines/SNRIs. It's quite interesting when you consider the subtle interaction between these 3 neurotransmitters....they make up a little mood triangle in my mind.

I've noticed these differences in part because I have what I'd call dopamine related depression, and my girlfriend has what I'd call opiate/cbd related depression. For me, SSRIs have no impact, marijuana leaves me dysphoric, opiates are unfulfilling and don't improve my mood. SDRIs (wellbutrin) work fairly well in terms of improving my mood, but unfortunately they also induce mania in my bipolar ass. Amphetamines, however, will never make me anxious, induce less paranoia than marijuana, and can bring me out of the deepest depression-and keep me out of it, even through the crash.

It's a shot in the dark, but if my reaction to opiates/cannabis/SSRIs/amphetamines is one you identify with, you might try wellbutrin. I was thrilled to find something that worked until I realized the correlation between increasing my dose and a steady decline into batshit crazy mania.
 
sorry to hear this mate, but I certainly understand the position you're in. I've been around the block with SSRI's, anything and everything to try and treat my SAD. Benzo's worked... but as expected that lead to huge gaps in memory and ultimately dependance. Now I'm on adderall, and its really helped my depression. I completely relate to the switch you were talking about, and you're so right. I wish I could give ya some tips but all I do is take adderall. just letting you know i understand your problem, and in a year or so I'll probably be in the same position as you are. hang in there bro
 
What about finding the root cause of your depression, as opposed to just treating the symptoms? Its harder then popping a pill but youd be much better off.
 
Sounds like atypical depression to me, and if it's anything like my amphetamine induced depressions.. nothing is a faster remedy than l-tyrosine and Strattera.

l-tyrosine = pre-cursor to dopamine and noradrenaline
Strattera = noradrenalie re-uptake inhibitor (same re-uptake inhibition mechanism as some tricyclic anti-depressants)

It's also likely that Wellbutrin would work better than Strattera, as it inhibits the re-uptake of both dopamine and noradrenaline. Though unlike Strattera, Wellbutrin can have withdrawal symptoms of it's own.

It is also possible to reverse CNS Adrenergic receptor down-regulation through means of a NARI.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1471-4159.2005.03598.x

As for minimizing come-down and putting an upper level cap on your tolerance, I've found dextromethorphan and magnesium to do wonders for myself.

I've left a lot of details out of this reply, feel free to request more. It's taken me about a solid year of my life to really iron down a working plan for my own dextroamphetamine use/abuse.
 
Last edited:
I know there are underlying beliefs and stuff that at least exacibate the problem if not cause it, but getting rid of those beliefs is something I can't seem to do. Even though intelectually I know they are pointless and wrong.

NbWY1, what you say seems about spot on, If you would like to PM or post some more info here I would appreciate it. I am really getting worried how neuroitoxic the stuff is and what it is going to mean for me when I am 50 years old let alone older.

Thanks
 
Well, I've been on dexedrine for 2+ years now. I recently began getting headaches, so I stopped dexedrine for a few days, then went back on. The headaches were gone, but they returned quickly. My concern is that the pain is mainly in the occipital lobes and right behind the eyes.

I've been thinking about amphetamines and glycogenolysis. My theory is that it depletes your glycogen store to the point that you have no energy reserve. This makes sense in terms of the general sympathetic effects - being on dexedrine all the time is like being stuck in a "fight-or-flight" response. You might be able to replenish a little over night, but if you aren't getting enough sleep, it seems possible that over a matter of weeks, your glycogen store would be run down.

Anecdotally, I experience intense hunger every 3-4 hours (while on dexedrine). The hunger is very intense late at night, and I find that I usually cannot sleep unless I eat a good amount of food.

During the day, I cannot go more than 3-4 hours without food. If I try, I experience severe hypoglycemia. Now, this is the interesting part. If I abstain from dexedrine for 2 days, and then take my normal dose on the 3rd day, I can go almost the entire day without eating. So my hypothesis is that these effects can be explained in terms of glycogen storage.

Dexedrine ----> increased norepinephrine ----> sympathetic response ----> "fight or flight" symptoms ----> release of glycogen stores -----> reduced energy reserve

Now if you are taking time-release dexedrine, or dosing throughout the day.....your glycogen reserve spirals down, down, down.....especially if you aren't sleeping enough. Eventually, you are eating enough calories for the next 4 hours....at which point you MUST eat again or suffer severe hypoglycemia. In short, the "buffer system" your body uses to manage glucose is compromised.


Dexedrine is a strange drug. It works wonders in the short term, but over the past 2 years I have seen how my body adapts to daily amphetamine use...and it is not good. My entire system just goes "out of wack." Energy management get's fucked, and my sleep schedule goes to hell. Blood vessels constrict themselves down to nothing...bp is through the roof even on 5mg. Can't get emotional about anything...spontaneous activity is depressed.

Yet it is SO useful for getting things DONE. I need to train myself to get things done without dexies, because my body just gets too fucked up from doing them every day.
 
Last edited:
Better than l-tyrosine try out levodopa , the dopamine precursor. Theres a plant called cowage that naturally has it and can be bought very cheaply.Making a tea out of the leaves works well. You could also get your doctor to prescribe to it you, mention it to him and see what he thinks.

It seems like heavy amphetamine use just depletes up your dopamine storages, somewhat parallel to MDMA and serotonin. If something were to replenish those stores it seems like it would help.

Also look into magnesium supplementation. I remember reading amphetamine usage depletes magnesium and causes the weird jaw problems like teeth grinding. Low magnesium levels also cause depression.
 
I second what everyone here said about magnesium. In and of itself it will make you calmer and less depressed. With any dose of amphetamine, I find it essential. Get it chelated, which means in a salt with an amino acid. It's far more bioavailable than inorganic salts, which is what most magnesium pills that don't say 'chelated' use.

I take 30mg DXM and 500mg chelated magnesium every time I take adderall. The drug's side effects still have to be reckoned with, especially the lack of sleep. But if I use it somewhat moderately with these supplements, tolerance buildup is minimized.

protovack, I relate to your experience very much. When I'm on adderall, I'm a working machine and I'm not depressed, but I'm 'flatter and squarer', if that makes any sense, and I don't consider those good side effects.

P.S. L-dopa is not a drug to be messed around with lightly.
 
lenses said:
Better than l-tyrosine try out levodopa , the dopamine precursor. Theres a plant called cowage that naturally has it and can be bought very cheaply.Making a tea out of the leaves works well. You could also get your doctor to prescribe to it you, mention it to him and see what he thinks.

It seems like heavy amphetamine use just depletes up your dopamine storages, somewhat parallel to MDMA and serotonin. If something were to replenish those stores it seems like it would help.

Also look into magnesium supplementation. I remember reading amphetamine usage depletes magnesium and causes the weird jaw problems like teeth grinding. Low magnesium levels also cause depression.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's irresponsible to an extreme. L-dopa conversion isn't rate limited, and psychosis can result from even slightly excessive doses.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
I take 30mg DXM and 500mg chelated magnesium every time I take adderall. The drug's side effects still have to be reckoned with, especially the lack of sleep. But if I use it somewhat moderately with these supplements, tolerance buildup is minimized.
Click to expand...
Seconding the DXM+magnesium. It, along with the other NMDA receptor antagonists, have been shown to reduce amphetamine tolerance. I don't remember exactly why, but it has something to do with excess calcium ions. DXM+magnesium are the only ones really suited to this purpose. The others, like PCP and ketamine, have their undesirable side effects.
 
Anyone else have anecdotal reports on magnesium and DXM with amph? Timing and dosages?
 
To Dondante: i've heard people recommend taking the DXM at your dexamp blood plasma peak. not sure about when to take the magnesium but it will be helpful regardless.

A Vitamin B-Complex could also help. there are loads of things really, (several amino acids, piracetam, aniracetam, etc.) that will lower or substantially prevent tolerance, but it all depends on how complicated you want to make it.

To streetsweeper: i hear you about antidepressants not working, though i think you need to immediately start lowering your dextroamphetamine dosage. that's way higher than you want to be starting out at, since you gave yourself time to reset your tolerance. though i wouldn't worry too horribly about neurotoxicity at this point, by starting so high, you've probably caused some pretty erratic jumps in dopamine/ norepinephrine levels and some really minor serotonergic action that might be causing some of your mood swings like irrational sadness. you might want to take a break for a few days and lower your tolerance threshold at least somewhat, or you might want to switch over to something like provigil or strattera for a while to hold you while you let your tolerance diminish.

were you taking selegiline in conjunction with citalopram? because that sounds like an extremely dangerous combo. you may very well be suffering from withdrawal/ side effects of said combo.

how long after you stopped selegiline did you start dexedrine. that might be the most important thing of all. at doses higher than 5mg/day of any amphetamine mixed with the after-effects of mao inhibition (high base dopamine levels), you could cause yourself some serious emotional chaos.

you refer to yourself masochistically as an "addict," yet, you are being prescribed by a licensed practitioner and using much more responsibly than a plethora of others. this is unwarranted thinking and you should do your best to avoid it.

whatever you do, i think you should try talk therapy. it can be a helpful "potentiator," especially for someone of your intellectual capacity. i don't think your doctor will be too keen on having to dispense tablets to you frequently. instead of that tactic, i think you need to re-evaluate your relationship with dexedrine and realize that it is your choice to overuse your prescriptions, psychological/ physiological cravings aside. and i think that therapy will help you do all of this and more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top