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AMPAkines

dip12

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
82
I remember seeing an RC supplier (a good while back, like 1-2 years ago) selling an AMPAkine (one of the CX's). I can very much appreciate the lack of interest in such compounds until full clinical trials have been completed (messing with glutamate in the brain in a new and novel way is no casual event). Still seeing as they appeared to being sold at one point (I don't know if it was a legit company but it looked it at the time), does anyone know if such compounds were trialed, i.e by people on bluelight/individuals etc etc (not official trials) ?

I ask only out of interest, personally wouldn't touch them until more is known. I wonder if they are even that effective.
 
Well from everything I've seen so far under significant research for cognitive decline (ampakines, 5HT6 antagonists, and whatever nicotinic agonist they're playing with in the labs) will probably end up like modafinil. Useful, significant but not to an extreme degree, cognitive enhancers for obscure diseases.

AMPA modulation however has a potential to cause seizures or lower the seizure threshold, so bear that in mind if you're interested. Back on imminst there was a guy who spent a couple grand on a novel ampakine and the results were there but meh IIRC.
 
Back on imminst there was a guy who spent a couple grand on a novel ampakine and the results were there but meh IIRC.

That rings a bell actually, yeah, Seems like chat/forums/bluelight went through a phase of AMPAkine interest to only be cut just as quickly. Makes me think if anything they might do something very subtle (with unknown risks) but not anything like the hype they received
 
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topi...pensive-ampakines/page__p__204179#entry204179

I have used the ampakine Ampalex (CX516) in the last months. Not only me but also several other persons. In my opinion it is nearly worthless to write anything like a report based just on my own experiences, so I waited for some others and their experiences. Even used by much more persons, but without scientific protocol, placebo group and so on, it is not really significant. Look at the papers and studies done by Cortex and other researching groups, the results vary, from very usefull for treatment of several diseases to nearly useless. Cortex has pointed out, that some research was not done with a proper dose of CX516.

I would also prefer to use the stronger CX717 but as you know the structure is still secret, I have decided for CX516 and not some other like CX614 or CX546, because the most research was done with Ampalex (and later CX717). It may be not so effective like the newer compound because of its shorter half life, but with a proper dosage I do not think, that this is a matter, also because of other factors of it`s pharmaceutical properties especially the release of nerve growth factors. Some studies have shown that even days after ceasing the use of ampalex, the effect was still present for days, perhaps also due to the sensitizing of the AMPAr which lasted longer.

So how it feels?
The first time I have used this compound I took about 300mg. It was a little bit exciting, the waiting for the action to take place. I have expected it to be similar to Modafinil, perhaps also because of the modulation of the glutamergic pathway. It is different, they may be some aspects these two share, but Modafinil is definately more promoting wakefullness and motivation, especially the last one may be caused through the involvation of the dopamine, which is not present in Ampalex so far as I know. Taking Modafinil, you feel clearly after 2 hours that you are "on" some psychic active agent. Ampalex is different here, after 1 hour of ingestion, one feels something taking place (you know what I mean, a change in your feeling, thoughts, for example when you feel hyperactive on coffein) but it is much more slight. Even with 600mg (the dose I use usually now) one does not feel "high" or strongly affected, the psychic sideffects are not so strong present as with other pharmaceuticals.

But there is a change, it is really difficult for me to describe it, I only can try. I can notice it when I am learning something or I have to understand correletions between some mechanism (for example in molecular biology etc.) to visualize the things I hear in the university or I read about. Sometimes the effect on the memory is very strong noticable, especially after learning for tests. The cognition is enhanced but not on the way it happens with modafinil (or higher dosages of modafinil). With modafinil one sometimes has a kind of thinking that is very concentrated, but it can dimnish the outside thinking, you focus on one way towards a solution and don`t see the others (as I sad difficult to describe), one would say that the phantasy is a little bit limited, if this is the right word for that. With Ampalex this is not the case, much more it may be helpfull to see other ways, to combine the learned informations and to see the links between issues. For me it was also interesting to notice, that the effect wasn`t very strong on the first day but it was on the second and stronger on the third one. I don`t know if this is caused by the growth factors or by some other mechanism.
Now I am using often a mixture of just a small ammount of modafinil (never more then 50mg, usually 30-40mg) and 600mg Ampalex. Sometimes adding green tee.
Modafinil gives me the state of totally wakefullness, which combined with the effects of Amaplex are simply great allowing one unbelievable concentration and allow an easier understanding and memorizing of the lectures.

I have tried many nootropics and although I know that here are enough enthusiasts who don`t want to hear this and will come up with the argument that I should not compare myself to all other people (what works for you won`t work for someone else and so on and on....) I have to say, that I have only used 2 or 3 that have ever worked.
Modafinil, Ampalex and perhaps green tee as addition to those 2. Everything else was totaly useless or even caused a state, where my abilities were more dimnished than enhanced. Perhaps are my claims higher, but the nootropic market is, as I have mentioned before a little bit absurd, giving nearly any psychological active agent the word "nootropic" as an attachment. So this is how I want to end this short report. You want me in the end to say if I think ampalex works.
And in my subjective opinion I can say: Yes, it does.
 
Well from everything I've seen so far under significant research for cognitive decline (ampakines, 5HT6 antagonists, and whatever nicotinic agonist they're playing with in the labs) will probably end up like modafinil. Useful, significant but not to an extreme degree, cognitive enhancers for obscure diseases.

AMPA modulation however has a potential to cause seizures or lower the seizure threshold, so bear that in mind if you're interested. Back on imminst there was a guy who spent a couple grand on a novel ampakine and the results were there but meh IIRC.
It's means that best way for cognitive enhacment it's modafinil and it's analouges? I remember somebody say good words about 4-fluro-adrafanil or something like that(i really not good at chemistry)
 
Epsilon Alpha, do you think the Limitless pill is possible given enough time, say 100 years?
 
Epsilon Alpha, do you think the Limitless pill is possible given enough time, say 100 years?

Well as ebola said techniques will improve, but the real money is in (epi)genetics and brain computer interfaces. The fact of the matter is that the human brain has some built in limitations on cognition, so you need to either alter it from the ground up or probably add in a external processor. Of course there's still places to improve within our current limits, and likely these improvements will be useful, but don't expect a miracle unless you find a compound or set of compounds perfectly tailored for you.
 
That's where the future needs to go as well, tailor treatments to a specific person, like by some sort of (cheap) but thorough and extensive brain scanning technology, since neuroplasticity makes it impossible to do it any other way
 
I should find out for myself about AMPAkines soon a I get paid. At least, if a chemical company get their act together and hurry up about getting back to me. Going to buy myself a gram of 1-benzoylpiperazine, and make some sunifiram. Cheating, sort of, in getting to the final product. My original intent was to start from piperazine, but now I figured 'do it the easy way, and if the results are worth having, then I'll make it from scratch when my original test batch runs out'

The rats say yes, at least. And perhaps unlike many people buying into nootropics, I do have a preexisting memory&cognitive impairment, which I think, goes back to both hugely excessive use of, then being forced to cold turkey from barbiturates (barbital, and got arrested and remanded). I have had pretty good results from other nootropics, notably pramiracetam and anticholinesterases, particularly galantamine (which has additional effects as an agonist of alpha7 NAChRs).

Not going to waste benzoyl/propionyl chloride doing it from scratch until I make a small test amount, although 'small' is relative, considering the weight potency of sunifiram, as its in the 0.1mg/kg range in rats. I can't wait to try it out, as my mnemonic and cognitive abilities have been pretty severely impacted by whatever is the cause of the impairment.
 
I should find out for myself about AMPAkines soon a I get paid. At least, if a chemical company get their act together and hurry up about getting back to me. Going to buy myself a gram of 1-benzoylpiperazine, and make some sunifiram. Cheating, sort of, in getting to the final product. My original intent was to start from piperazine, but now I figured 'do it the easy way, and if the results are worth having, then I'll make it from scratch when my original test batch runs out'

Has sunifiram (or any chemical relative, i.e not ampa agonist rather similar structure) ever had any human trials? If it hasn't, it's fairly unique i.e could have all kind of s/e (qt prolongation etc etc), let alone it effecting glutamate (not a transmitter you want to play with lightly via a completely novel compound).

maybe there have been trials? If not - just seems extreme caution would be the minimum requirement.
 
No human trials that I know of. Of course extreme caution is pretty much mandatory....but my country's health system, the NHS will do literally NOTHING to help. Can't get either anticholinesterases, or memantine (tried both, noticed more beneficiel effects from the former, galantamine particularly)

If *I* don't do something about it, sure as hell nobody else is going to.

The AMPAkines seem to have a pretty benign tox profile...still, going to treat lightly with this one.
 
Im not very excited about the ampakines; i suspect they wont ever surpass nefiracetam wich is the most potent glutamate modulator available atm; it has toxiticy issues but an easy trial with a blood test for test levels will reveal wheter the same toxiticy occurs in humans.
 
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