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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

America needs libertarianism

It has happened, i'm paying for people on welfare. qwe asked me why i'm against wealth redistribution and its because it comes out of my pocket(i should have just said that in the first place).

There is not an administration since you've been born where this isn't the case. You might as well be focusing your anger at the Reagan, Nixon or Bush administrations.

You complain about paying taxes because you don't care about the health of others, whether toxic waste gets dumped in rivers, or whether other people's children have equal access to education. I get it, you're shamelessly selfish. There's actually a lot of people like you in the world. Luckily, they are the minority. By all means, vote Ron Paul and cross your fingers, but eventually you have to decide whether you want to stay in the U.S. or leave for another country.

I sometimes wish the world would pitch in and buy 'Cut Throat Island' and deport all the hardcore conservatives there, where they can have free market orgies, and give each other trickle down golden showers to their hearts content.
 
i dun wanna pay fer no roads and trains i dun aint driving my darn tractor on! anyone who does is no better than a red needing to be made dead with some lead in they head.


"Mo' money, mo' problems."

how does honey fit into this equation? can a brother manfest or synthesize some honey wit no money?
 
it says location, not occupation. for some reason, I feel obligated to point this out........

Thanks for pointing that out. I've been here for 9 years and I've never realized this before. Silly me.

Also, I specifically recall asking an objective question rather than communicating opinion.

idiot

A redundant question followed by an eyes rolling emoticon conveys opinion.

.......

And I still haven't yet asked for yours, though you seem eager to offer it.
 
Owing mostly to inherited money and a series of ethically questionable money management practices, I've at times had the luxury of naively labeling myself a rugged individualist. It's amazing how insidious the libertarian philosophy can be to a young person. The unflinchingly logical free market ideals, so self-reaffirming, are the perfect fertilizer for maintaining that child-like freedom where one can play as hard as desired even while others are being hurt. Medicare isn't logical! It's hurting the entire rhythm of the game! Social security, starting... wait... NOW... should be privatized. Just had to double check and make sure I was enterprising enough to be on the right side of that equation before I voted. Everything is a ponzi scheme! Things should be more efficient, so that we can... wait, what were we fighting for, again?

On the other hand, you can't help but love a political faction by the proles, for the proles, focused on enchanting everyone into loving hard work and paying for their own hospice care when they've outlived their usefulness. I've got to meet the founder.
 
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There is not an administration since you've been born where this isn't the case. You might as well be focusing your anger at the Reagan, Nixon or Bush administrations.

I'n not a big fan of either of those administrations(esp Bush Sr. & Jr.).

You complain about paying taxes because you don't care about the health of others, whether toxic waste gets dumped in rivers, or whether other people's children have equal access to education. I get it, you're shamelessly selfish.

None of those are my problems. Harsh? Sure, thats life. Selfish? If not helping people by teaching them to freeload and not wanting to give people who aren't helping me money is selfish, then yeah I guess its selfish.
 
Thanks for pointing that out. I've been here for 9 years and I've never realized this before. Silly me.
8(


A redundant question followed by an eyes rolling emoticon conveys opinion.
Not so redundant according to the response above. And yeah, I'm sure you're a mind reader. I'm sure you knew everything about me as soon as I posted that emoticon. yep

.......

And I still haven't yet asked for yours, though you seem eager to offer it.
at this point you deserve it imo.
 
I'n not a big fan of either of those administrations(esp Bush Sr. & Jr.).



None of those are my problems. Harsh? Sure, thats life. Selfish? If not helping people by teaching them to freeload and not wanting to give people who aren't helping me money is selfish, then yeah I guess its selfish.

that's your environment and those are your neighbours. it is in your best interest to look after both of those. if you can't comprehend this simple fact, then you really don't know anything about how society, the economy and the environment works.
 
^ Conservativism in itself is an inherently selfish ideology. "I don't care about you, I just want what's mine."
 
Taxation is theft, the government taking people's money by force. The government shouldn't be taking a chunk out of anybody's annual income in the first place and tax evaders are just trying to keep their money. Everybody should be taking a stand against taxation imo.

I think you'll find that good old Marx said all property was theft. You got that quote wrong. Tax is necessary. Say a person works for "I'ma massive dick corporation" He has a job, works hard and is the best dick in his company, unfortunately, "I'ma penis limited" are just better at being pricks and the market is not big enough to support 2 rival companies and the dick corporation shuts down. He's unemployed and can't find a job. In a social democracy, he gets a bit on unemployment benefit and just about manages to scrape enough together not to die and to afford heating. In a entirely libertarian economy he is homeless, he wants food, he steals from you and the entire community to live. Now its a question of whether we all take that financial burden together or a random person gets completely fucked over when he burgles the house and takes everything. OR we could have a system where he isn't unemployed in the first place... but that wouldn't be capitalism therefore it is wrong and evil and for stupid people.
 
Can we all agree on one libertarian principle: ending the war on drugs? Maybe legalizing and taxing to start a new revenue streem. Hell just legalizing cannabis alone- all the freeded up prison space, decreased law enforcement costs, overwhelmed courts freed up for more important cases. And get rid of the frivolous law suits, but I digress. I don't think any Rep or Dems are down with this idea in the fed government or canidates that I know about, (except Ron Paul- who has been saying this for years.)

A big problem in government is that most are unprincipaled- special interests, not the people run the place. The politicians have been probably raping the medicare fund but certainely borrowing from social security for decades to fund their pet, pork barrel products.

I wouldn't be as against welfare if you just cut them a check- but the money trickles down to them through a bureacracy. Instead we have welfare for corporations.

The fed government was mandated in its inception to do 3 things- PROVIDE FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE- something they have done a great job of- we have weapons generations ahead of other coutries, we have a nuclear arsenal so don't see China or Venezuela, or anyone else invading anytime soon 9though I would prefer a world without these horrific devices) and military members are making alot of money and have good benefits especially after years of service (and desevadely so). #2 establish a federal court system to mediate disputes among states, #3 encourage interstate commerce- we do this today by printing a common currency, maintaining infrastructure (like bridges across a river dividing 2 states).

I think that the States should take over alot of the services the feds provide- so you don't have duplicity of services, like education, public assistance, environmental regulations, ect... so if you don't like the policies in one state, you can move to another.

Like Rome we got spoiled. During the Great Depression people would take care of their neighbors. Until people in the USA start comming together rich and poor alike, things are going to continue to get worse and the government can't change this. There was a time when Corporations felt a responsability to their employees, now its share holders soley, and a few executives trying to get rich. That is an argument against libertarianism.

But when we bailed out Fannie and fredie, the banks- why did they not give people breaks on their student loans, give broke homeowners a break- a massive rescue of the American people- that might have help stabalize the economy, ect...instead we got shafted. republican or democrats alike, they are all sef-serving, just as corrupt as their counterparts in Mexico. So decreasing the size and scope of the government begins to make sense.

When the economy is good there is money for welfare states. one needs only look whats happening in Europe to see how socialism has failed- Greece in particular is a great example of a mismanged failed welfare state (come to think of it, so is California). I have a friend that made alot of money in the interenet and other concerns. He has a small business but he took care of his employees- giving them excellent benefits and taking care of them. The way corporations should be- he could have been alot richer- he told me that CA is so business non-friendly that he would move if he wasn't tied here.

The BRIC countries like china, India, ect...seemed to have made out alright from freemarket capitalism. Maybe the USA should entertain tarrifs as a source of revenue and to protect US goods. Stop giving money to other countries and bring our boys and girls home from the wars and the many overseas bases.

To to some up- end the drug war, decrease the size of the government, institute a flat tax, get rid of all the loopholes- taxing the middle class at a lower rate, and taxing the rich at the same rate. Generate money through excize taxes and tarrifs. don't tax people bellow the poverty line that have jobs. But if people don't replace greed and fear with goodwill and coperation- looking out for each other, non of this will ever work, either under the current facist regieme or libertarianism.
 
^ It depends on what you mean by "libertarian principle" if by that you mean economic policies of letting corporations run the place, then the drug war is ideal. Privatized free labor? That's what our prison systems are turning into, and it's perfect for the people who back "low government--privatize everything".

we got spoiled.
Yeah, we got spoiled by letting the corporations and banks run everything induce consumerism and let the military, banks, and corporations, run away with American wealth and now the poor who rely on social service devices are now "spoiled" (through no fault of their own) and it's on them to bail out the system by cutting the needed services to allow the poor to live comfortably (despite what capitalism says, there MUST be poor)

Free market capitalism/NIEO has ruined politics and "welfare State" that could have had surplus for many more years, and now kids and adults alike have been manufactured to think that MORE of the same raping is all that can save us. Jesus, fucking, Christ.
 
The BRIC countries like china, India, ect...seemed to have made out alright from freemarket capitalism.

Of course they have. Capitalism was designed by developing countries for developing countries. It shouldn't be at all surprising that modern day developing countries have much to benefit from capitalism.

It's the developed countries, where the standard of living is high, and manufactured resources abundant, where capitalism starts to fall apart. When the simple economics of supply and demand are no longer the primary driving force of an economy, you start to see wholesale manipulation of currency, resources, and manufacturing. Scarcity where none truly exists; throttling of advancement in order to prop up a profit model; carefully controlled distribution. This is the dark side of capitalism. It's what happens when the pure motivating force of survival is taken out of the picture.

Capitalism is great when the hoppers need to be filled, but once the hoppers are full, everyone just turns on each other and it's a mess of confusion. We're like a giant colony of ants without a queen or a purpose.
 
Thanks Cyc: I never thought of it that way- thats an interesting idea, that where living standards are high, the laws of supply and demand, ect are replaced by manipulation, deception, and exploitation of the consumer.

But your country has an advatage over our country in that although corruption might exist, it doesn't to the degree it does in this country- so your higher taxes go to providing services- you have alot more to show for your tax dollars.

But we are differen't countries- corruption is so systemic here that our taxes are squandered by currupt individuals and politicians- hence the rationale for decreasing the size of the government. Government is big business- it is shameful that the DC area was one of the few places were home values didn't drop. Money is big business- but the lobbyiest and other parasites are like maggots feeding on a dying carcase of a nation (or an empire, depending on your point of view). If your taxes are going to be stolen and given to corporations, politicians, bloated bureacrats, and parasitic professional lobbyiests' interests- and you have little to show for it, then taxation becomes frustrating. Corporations are given preference in receiving welfare over the poor in this fascist state.
 
that's your environment and those are your neighbours. it is in your best interest to look after both of those.

How the hell is it in my self interest to look out for the poor's well being, they do aboslutely nothing for me. I'm sure when our founding fathers created this nation they weren't think of turning it into a welfare state. The poor can fend for themselves if they try, my father grew up poor and worked his ass off and died a very successful and wealthy man.

I shouldn't give what he earned away to the poor when all they need to do is some HARD WORK(god forbid).
 
You're an idiot. And your father a slob. If you're rich you didn't work as hard as a laborer, by definition. And you need laborers to have rich, by definition.
The founding fathers massacred natives in order to detach from England, and then Adam Smith did precisely the opposite of what is being done today (liberal economics/privatize) and America owned their own cotton and was able to be financially capable in the markets. And the government still separate from the people (especially then with the Senate) it wasn't much different from England short of a few freedoms and allowing ruralism slavery. Jump to post-WWII and the government would be called "socialist" in today's misrepresented lingo. And now reverting back to classical economics which is what got us in the depression in the first place. The cycle continues and your idiocy is helping it.
 
So success makes you a slob?

You need the rich to have laborers, or the laborers wouldn't have anybody to be hired by.

He's a slob for instilling greed and lack of empathy and compassion in you.
Wrong. You need workers, period. The exploitation of workers is a system of profits. Without the people building empires there would be no jobs (an architect is useless without builders), period. etc, etc.
 
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