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All Things Existentialism?

MyFinalRest

MyFinalRest

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I'm surprised I didn't find a thread dealing with Existentialist philosophy.

Well, what is it then...which comes first...existence or essence?

Does the existence of man come before any "essence" or "meaning in this universe"? When we discover meaning in something, an essence so to speak, is it only because man gives it meaning? Or, would these things have an "essence" or "meaning" regardless if man acknowledges it as meaningful.

Although I like some points of the Existentialist philosophy, I must ultimately go against it by saying that yes, "essence" does come before "existence" and some of these "essences" would have meaning whether or not we gave meaning or recognition to them.
 
Man gives the universe (false) meaning. There is no point to existence, we don't have an intrinsic meaning and we have no destiny but to die. Death and destruction are inescapable. existence defines essence. This is my insight as a true daoist. Essence and non essence define each other only after a human abstracts them and the concept.
 
MyFinalRest said:
I'm surprised I didn't find a thread dealing with Existentialist philosophy.

Well, what is it then...which comes first...existence or essence?

Does the existence of man come before any "essence" or "meaning in this universe"? When we discover meaning in something, an essence so to speak, is it only because man gives it meaning? Or, would these things have an "essence" or "meaning" regardless if man acknowledges it as meaningful.

Although I like some points of the Existentialist philosophy, I must ultimately go against it by saying that yes, "essence" does come before "existence" and some of these "essences" would have meaning whether or not we gave meaning or recognition to them.
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haha this is an existentialists reality, as in we are transcendent beings.

understanding our essence, we can understand this theory as our reality, and develop an understanding of how to ascend from the situation we have created for ourselves, manifesting a greater one here for ourselves and each other. letting this idea be one that is more acceptable is important, because then it can only be further realized by more of us, as our only reality. i also feel the true nature of man is peace, and the more this essence of our true nature is realized and allowed to be - the chain-of-events that i am imaging from here you might be able to as-well.
 
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hiphophippy said:
Man gives the universe (false) meaning. There is no point to existence, we don't have an intrinsic meaning and we have no destiny but to die. Death and destruction are inescapable. existence defines essence.
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You know about a year ago i would of disagreed, but i now see this as truth. If you can accept the meaninglessness of existence, you surrender your sense of self and the belief that you are special and realize everything for what it truly is, the freedom to enjoy each moment knowing it means nothing, and yet.. it is.
 
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Our essence is existere; existence is standing-out for the possible; our Being (essence) is a being-possible (existence).
 
malakaix said:
You know about a year ago i would of disagreed, but i now see this as truth. If you can accept the meaninglessness of existence, you surrender your sense of self and the belief that you are special and realize everything for what it truly is, the freedom to enjoy each moment knowing it means nothing, and yet.. it is.
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One should be careful not to slip into a nihilistic attitude from this truth though (not saying you do), for while it is true that existence is essentially meaningless and just "is", there exists within the human being the capacity/potential to realize something fantastic, something almost beyond our imagination at this point. Unfortunately we as a species we seem to be stuck in a negative feedback loop that prevents us from unfolding this innate biological potential. You get a glimpse of it though with the natives and tribal people, like the australian aborigine and their "dreamtime".

It is a bit depressing to hold that view, which I do, because you realize that we will probably not see that potential realized in our lifetime.. infact the signs are pointing to our destruction in the near future. But I take comfort knowing that it doesn't matter, that somewhere out there in space there is probably a species like ours that has managed to find a better way as well :)
 
Interesting stuff so far...still not finding the right words to make a case for my belief in "essence" at this time. I'll have to think about this one a bit. Perhaps this existence of "essence" that doesn't rely on humans to imagine it defies explanation?
 
OP, I'm not sure if you have a full grasp of the existence vs. essence argument. Can you take constructive criticism or are you gonna freak out?

MyFinalRest said:
Does the existence of man come before any "essence" or "meaning in this universe"? When we discover meaning in something, an essence so to speak, is it only because man gives it meaning? Or, would these things have an "essence" or "meaning" regardless if man acknowledges it as meaningful.
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Here you are talking about the existence of "man" in relation to the essence of "something." IOW, you're comparing apples to brooms. In existentialism, existence and essence BOTH belong to man. So we need to rephrase your question, which comes first....man's existence or man's essence?

By saying you believe essence comes before existence (in man), you are essentially saying that you believe man has a soul or spirit that exists before he has a physical body.

Obviously this has some religious implications, but the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. Kierkegaard was a Christian.
 
-=SS=- said:
One should be careful not to slip into a nihilistic attitude from this truth though (not saying you do), for while it is true that existence is essentially meaningless and just "is", there exists within the human being the capacity/potential to realize something fantastic, something almost beyond our imagination at this point. Unfortunately we as a species we seem to be stuck in a negative feedback loop that prevents us from unfolding this innate biological potential. You get a glimpse of it though with the natives and tribal people, like the australian aborigine and their "dreamtime".

It is a bit depressing to hold that view, which I do, because you realize that we will probably not see that potential realized in our lifetime.. infact the signs are pointing to our destruction in the near future. But I take comfort knowing that it doesn't matter, that somewhere out there in space there is probably a species like ours that has managed to find a better way as well :)
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I think it's depressing to not be a nihilist. Once you get over the hump of the existential crisis it really is freeing. Existing at your leisure, unlocking said potential.Living by the Dao. Real answers only come to those not looking for them.



also
"Only power is real, and the only real power is the power to destroy. Existence is fleeting. Destruction is eternal."
 
hiphophippy said:
I think it's depressing to not be a nihilist. Once you get over the hump of the existential crisis it really is freeing. Existing at your leisure, unlocking said potential.Living by the Dao. Real answers only come to those not looking for them.
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It is tough to hold the view I said previously, for sure. I can't engage in nihilistic behaviour though, for I don't subscribe to morality being just a subjective attitude. I mean if none of this matters then what harm is it to try your best for the sake of others? The paradoxical view of "none of this matters" + "fighting but not giving a damn" is how what i'm trying to align myself to. What do you think?
 
-=SS=- said:
It is tough to hold the view I said previously, for sure. I can't engage in nihilistic behaviour though, for I don't subscribe to morality being just a subjective attitude. I mean if none of this matters then what harm is it to try your best for the sake of others? The paradoxical view of "none of this matters" + "fighting but not giving a damn" is how what i'm trying to align myself to. What do you think?
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Well, I'm a nihilist and I'm studying community organization and change and that's what I plan to do for the rest of my life. Pointless things are often done for whatever reasons. Honestly I believe if everyone would stop swinging their dicks around and agree that morality is subjective we could move forward. It's like western philosophy it has been gridlocks for the past 2500 years because everyone is swinging their dicks saying their philosophy and axioms are "right". everyone is so focused on dick swinging that they refuse to come together and move forward. If everyone would stop we could come together and form basic agreed on codes of conduct for human existence. People run around trying to find purpose int heir lives, in sex, and materialism, intolerant barbaric religions just need to accept life everything is meaningless and live healthy, intra/extra-respectful life styles. The dao, the way. It's not something you should follow, it's not something you have to follow. It exists for everyone but it does not exist as one. It has no purpose but is of purpose and that is a way to live a content life no guarantee of unwavering happiness no threat of damning hellfire. Just a way to live non-abstracted in everything.
 
DeathDomokun said:
I think you guys have a skewed view on what Nihilism is, and what meaning it rejects. Nihilism rejects INHERENT meaning. The lack of meaning does not mean that one cannot have preferences, even logical ones.
http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/prozak/nihilism/
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Which is why I said we need to shed "objective" morality and agree it's subjective? perhaps you have a skewed vocabulary.

also who ever wrote that article was having a hissy fit about hardcore existentialists being confused with nihilists. I'm just a philosophical Taoist. All meanings are abstractions from truth. truth and falseness are both just functions of information. hot and cold are both just functions of temperature.
 
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I wasn't directing it at you specifically, hiphiphippy. You're not the only one posting in this thread.
He wasn't only having a "hissy fit" about existentialists being confused with nihilists, he was more so bringing up the subject of people not knowing what nihilism is and people confusing other things as being nihilism, but if you call writing up your thoughts in a logical manner and addressing issues you see a hissy fit, then maybe it is your vocabulary that is skewed.
 
Ziiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg

DeathDomokun said:
I wasn't directing it at you specifically, hiphiphippy. You're not the only one posting in this thread.
He wasn't only having a "hissy fit" about existentialists being confused with nihilists, he was more so bringing up the subject of people not knowing what nihilism is and people confusing other things as being nihilism, but if you call writing up your thoughts in a logical manner and addressing issues you see a hissy fit, then maybe it is your vocabulary that is skewed.
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Then that would be my interpretation that was skewed there homepeice. =D

panic in paradise said:
redirect ;) existentialism can be a beautiful thing.
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this is a joke right ;P
 
As it applies to us, yes, I think essence in some form precedes existence. The jury is still out on whether or not I believe in a soul, though. I don't think functional consciousness transcends the body, either before birth, or after death, but it's constituent parts are all still there. Like the atoms that make up the body still exist before and after the body itself exists. Potential "soul-stuff". It has essence, after a fashion. I think. Maybe. Or....not.
 
voxmystic said:
As it applies to us, yes, I think essence in some form precedes existence. The jury is still out on whether or not I believe in a soul, though. I don't think functional consciousness transcends the body, either before birth, or after death, but it's constituent parts are all still there. Like the atoms that make up the body still exist before and after the body itself exists. Potential "soul-stuff". It has essence, after a fashion. I think. Maybe. Or....not.
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Have you ever done deep yoga or any other qi stimulating exercise?
 
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