Alcohol's relation to drugs?

[LOGan1314]

i'm an addict but i don't really enjoy alcohol anymore so i can control my drinking but it increases my cravings for other drugs

This exactly...soon as it starts kicking in i can't stop thinking about stims

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Pretty much you're just substituting alcohol for whatever drug you were taking before. Not really productive in my book.

The OP is just talking about drinking once, like a normal night having a few drinks with friends. Drinking while in recovery can definitely lead to replacing a drug addiction with an alcohol addiction for some people, but that it not a foregone conclusion.

 

[laCster]

I drink and I'm in recovery, it doesn't bother me, I could take it or leave it

 

[BlueHues]

The word GABA-ergic is sooo fucking annoying! Sure, it's a scientifically accurate term in reference to receptors, etc.......But it's such a chirpy little know-it-all sounding word!

Any "addiction expert" or member of a twelve step program will tell you that, basically, anything that gives you any sort of high(with the exception of tobacco and caffeine) is all one and the same and if you use them AT ALL, you're living in denial and you're bound to eventually die as a result of doing it because, "you're an addict and it's a terminal illness" ....."A disease of the mind, body and spirit!" but if you completely obstain from everything and center your life around a cult that primarily meets in church basements, everything will be fine! Or at least, "everything will happen the way it's supposed too!"

It's a really black and white way of thinking, but the people who believe it tend to be extremely fanatical and adamant about it! Particularly, "recovering alcoholics/addicts" that work in the field of recovery! Look out! They can be some of the most self-righteous people on earth and tend to look down on anyone using any substance to catch a buzz at all. although, some will say that they don't have a problem with people who drink or use but, "I just can't do it anymore"...I used to be one of these people!

I believe that some people do have addictive personalities and tend to more easily get addicted to substances other than their DOC. I don't think that means that it's impossible to ever use anything ever again, and I've seen numerous people over the years that were addicts switch to using marijuana or alcohol without it becoming a debilitating problem. That goes against one of the recovery communities most "highest and sacred beliefs", but that's just what I've seen....Not everyone can handle it, but some people can! It's just a fact!

Of course I can hear some random recovery/social services hack saying, "In my twenty years of working in this field, I've never seen anyone who's a "real alcoholic/addict" successfully go back to occasional drinking or drug use!"....
Well, of course you haven't! The people getting away with it aren't gonna end up back in the system with a "Primary counselor/life coach/piss test guru/ spirit guide" like yourself watching over them, so you're never gonna hear about the people that are sucessfully doing it!

If you really were to analyze what's routinely taught and accepted as fact by the American rehab/recovery industry, you'd be sitting there trying to make sense of a hodge-podge of contradictory, pseudo-spiritual/scientific ideas that defy rational thinking and hit a logical dead end. Not to say there's no merit to ANY of it, it's just that a lot of these concepts are poorly understood, and to what degree they're true and to what percentage of addicts/alcoholics these rules apply hasn't been even close to being proven conclusively! And yet some of these "recovery gurus" dispense these ideas as absolute truth!

I just think it's funny. Nobody truly understands what addiction is! It's just a collection of symptoms essentially, just like most of the other psychological "disorders" outthere. Just a collection of behaviors that fall into a range of alcoholism/addiction. I actually believe "addiction" exists as a problem, I've struggled with the consequences of drug use for years, but is it really as simple as labelling people as "addicts" or "non-addicts"? Is it really as simple as, "You were a heroin addict for 10 years so you can never have a glass of wine with dinner or a beer when you watch a football game!" EVER!?... "You eventually ended up addicted to cocaine so, for the rest of eternity you can never smoke another joint!"
Come on!
Thats my rant and I don't feel like editing it and further.....

 

[Renz Envy]

A true addict rationalizes, over-analyzes and defends his or her habits to the point of contradiction.

The moral of the story is that if you suffer from a common will to cheat your reward system with substances, and wish to treat this, then avoidance of rewarding compounds is best. No one can truly point at a drug addict and call their practice a problem unless the addiction affects them as well. Or the drug addict admits the habit is a problem.

I find it disturbing that people defend alcohol/drug use in individuals attempting to clean and straighten out their lives. Being sober for a month, or a year is a huge accomplishment.

 

[BlueHues]

I personally have trouble abstaining from drugs and alcohol for long periods of time....I've done it, but at some point or another I've always gone back to using some kind of chemical to give me a "head changer" or relieve anxiety, cover up pain...or whatever, but I don't really think an "addicts" reasons for getting high really differs from a non-addicts all that much...

I guess whether or not getting high starts creating problems in your everyday life and relationships is the main factor that would seperate an addict from a non-addict. Taking this to be true, you could use a whole half ounce of cocaine two weekends out of the year, and while that's a lot of cocaine to use(for some people!), as long as it's not disrupting your life, it's not a problem!

I don't deny that "addiction" is a real thing. It's just that, it seems like there's a lot of accepted "facts" about addiction that my personal experiences with addiction and my observations of other people with addiction have revealed to not be 100% true for everyone 100% percent of the time. The two that bother me the most are:

1. Addiction always progresses on a downward continuum, only getting worse. Even if you abstain for a period of time, you will always at the very least, go back to using the same way and the same amount that you did before, and it will always get worse! You will continually increase your dose and frequency of use.

2. Once you've had a problem with any substance to the point that it's adversely affected your life, you can never use a mind altering substance again without it eventually creating the same problems, and those problems will eventually progress even further than they did before.

While this may be true for some people with some substances. There is no absolute rule as to how addictive behavior plays out from individual to individual. But, to deny that everyone's "disease" is exactly the same, and to treat people with addiction differently, on a case by case basis, would present a disaster for the recovery industry as it currently stands. And, anyone who tries to introduce any new ideas into this outdated system are completely dismissed along with their ideas. It's more convenient and profitable to pack everyone in like sardines and apply the same formula across the board.

I think a certain degree of observation and analyzation is necessary to understand how anything in life works! And it's very typical of someone trying to sell any belief system or religion or whatever to the general public to accuse their dissenters of "Over-rationalizing". OH but, "Over-rationalizing is a trait of the "disease" of addiction"! Basically, what that means is, "Don't question anything, everything you think is wrong!"(I've literally been told that)....I guess that's really the only way could possibly deal with it, considering that the whole recovery philosophy is rife with inconsistencies you could drive a semi thru! Naturally questioning anything is just plain ridiculous! Pay no attention to the man behind that curtain! Resist, and that's basically what you'll probably be told, not necessarily in those words.

Sorry to be this way, but most of the rehabs I've been to marketed themselves as being these lofty, spiritual recovery centers where you went to find "your true self" again. And sure they had yoga and meditation etc., but in reality they were more like Re-education camps where the emphasis was on following a ridgid, stressful routine and the enforcement of petty, arbitrary rules! Rules like:
You must have a pen on you at all times!
You can only read recovery literature!
Lights out at 11 O'clock
ETc etc etc....

Now, the people who work at these facilities will defend this as being necessary to re-wire the "addicted brain" or whatever, but it really has always seemed to have more of an angry, punitive vibe to me, certainly a far cry from anything "spiritual and healing"...
But I digress....

Alcohol, does lead many addicts to relapse, but not always....

 

[Renz Envy]

I've never visited a rehabilitation facility. It's not my place to really give my opinion on whether or not they're constructive. I suppose anything that gets the monkey off your back and brings back respect lost during addiction can't be too bad.
I feel like it shouldn't be HR advice to encourage drugs that can lead to relapsing.

Rationalizing and over-analyzing is really insecurity IMO.

 

[BlueHues]

^Yeah but what exactly constitutes "Rationalizing and over-analyzing"?
And sure, if I was to give someone straight-up HR advice in regards to drugs and alcohol, I'd tell them not to use them at all! A lot of the HR I've seen on BL is more about telling people who are going to use these substances anyway the safest possible way to so! This thread's not about "rehab", so sorry for getting off track....I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I'm just stating my opinion...

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I feel like it shouldn't be HR advice to encourage drugs that can lead to relapsing.

Rationalizing and over-analyzing is really insecurity IMO.

I don't see anyone in this thread doing that . Some people are just pointing out that it completely depends on the person and that having had any sort of addiction does not automatically mean you can never ever, say, have a beer or smoke a joint (assuming of course those were things that were never a problem for you). No one seems to be encouraging the OP to drink or "rationalizing" anything. Just saying that they don't agree with the AA/NA belief that every single person who has ever had an addiction to anything must remain 100% abstinent from all drugs/alcohol for the rest of their life. And there can be a LOT of judgement from that crowd towards people who do not hold that belief.

I don't see how you interpret this as encouragement to use drugs that can lead to relapsing?

Of course the least risk comes from never using any drugs or drinking any alcohol, (whether you are a former addict or not), but that is often unrealistic, which is the whole point of harm reduction and why Bluelight exists. Saying the truth, that everyone is different and it depends on a bunch of factors, is HR IMO.

Anyway, we don't know what the OP's situation is or whether it's a risk for him, (plus he hasn't had a lot of clean time), so if he's unsure/worried it's definitely best to skip the drinking. Which he already said he would

 

[dragonix]

i'm an addict but i don't really enjoy alcohol anymore so i can control my drinking but it increases my cravings for other drugs

Kind of how I feel minus the part of denying what a boozehound I am!

 

[Keif' Richards]

Jeez, someone please tell me how I can drink and be in recovery at the same time, cause I need one right now!

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Ime alcohol lowers your inhibitions and will most likely lead to you rationalizing getting “just one bag” and we know how that goes

 

[LivingOnValium]

Yuor argfument is flawed all the way down the gutter. I'm a polydrug addict who never uses alcohol and i use weed extremely rarely ( couply of times a year ). Of course weed and alcohol are both drugs even though i don't have an obsession to use them like the other ones. a lot of other people have though, Do you go to to them and tell them you don't believe alcohol is a drug because you can use it without problems? That's being an asshole and having lack of emphathy and an extemely narrow way of lookink at life.

Ans it's just not alcohol. you do not preach homeless people homelesness is justy a choice if you happen have a nice and cozy home. I could mention a thousand things more like this.

 

[LivingOnValium]

The OP is just talking about drinking once, like a normal night having a few drinks with friends. Drinking while in retcovery can definitely lead to replacing a drug addiction with an alcohol addiction for some people, but that it not a foregone conclusion.

But that doesn't make it a bit less problematic with a single person with raging alcoholism. How come it's a drug a drug even though he can hadle it occasiaonally? Some people can do he ame with weed. But they still produce milllions of problems to evn more people. Wthat's the point even here what are we supposed discuss aabout. Alcohol is apsychoactive drug just like the others. One (tons on people use it like addicts only one weekends) being able to use it responsibly isn't an achievement and he shouldn't bew awarded about it.

Only thing is that it oroves it can be done as long as it doens't form a habit. Some people can go on like this till the end of their life. Some people think they can after fucking up big time after 5 years moderation. This is nothing unheard of. Some people are able to use cocaine or heroin only ont the weekends without it affecting their careers. They are thre expection to the rule. 99,5% people aren't like this.

 

[Dandreas345]

so i had a drug problem for a while, but ive been clean shy of a month.

i never had a problem with alcohol, like to addiction issues...so if i were to chill with some friends tonight and drink, as long as there are no drugs around it should be no problem?

i know they say stay away from booze, but i dont think it has any correlation as long as there are no drugs present?

It's definitely your decision, but make it with the knowledge that it does take people back out to their DOC sometimes. I'd tread carefully. End of every bottle theres a bag.

 

[birdup]

Technically alcohol is a drug

There is no technically about it. Alcohol is definitely a drug. It was (and still is) the first mainstream drug, so says the Bible. So many people consume it and it is so socially acceptable that people separate drugs from alcohol, but there are actually places in the world where marijuana is preferred socially and alcohol is perceived as we perceive drugs. It is unfortunate that Jesus didn't smoke weed.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Technically alcohol is a drug so if your drinking your not technically clean!!! Sorry aint being a A hole just had to throw that out there

Depends on what you mean by clean. If you mean drug free then fair enough, but that’s an extremely poor description of clean for me.

To me clean means that you have control over your substance consumption and have made a choice to avoid certain things that you know you can’t control and will ruin your life.

Go to to an AA/NA meeting 15 minutes early and you’ll find d the biggest load of tobacco and caffeine junkies walking around calling themselves clean.

Everything is relative, choose the clean that is right for you, but be honest.

 

[dalpat077]

Ime alcohol lowers your inhibitions and will most likely lead to you rationalizing getting “just one bag” and we know how that goes

^ Exactly this! Based on personal experience and seen it happen to too many people with alarming predictability and accuracy for it to simply be coincidence or anecdotal evidence. And even more difficult and ill advised is if the OP is going to have a few drinks with the same mates that he/she may have been using with in the past. Because while MOST may be able control themselves: there will always be that one fucker in the room that cannot keep themselves in check while under the influence and starts with the "let's just get one" or "what's the worst that can happen" type of thing. The favorite is "well we can just score now and get clean again because you've seen you can do this" or "let's just make tonight a real blast (like it's some type of reward system) and we'll worry about it tomorrow".

 

[Keif' Richards]

Ime alcohol lowers your inhibitions and will most likely lead to you rationalizing getting “just one bag” and we know how that goes

Yes, definitely. I come from a long line of relatively problematic drinkers. I've had family members who tell stories about seeing snakes and people dying from Alcohol withdrawal. I would say, today at 30, that it's taken me this long, but I had already reached the end of my social drinking career by about 23. If I get drunk at all, it's going to be very drunk or I'll drink until there is no more Alcohol.

Alcohol is the great derailer for so many of us. We can keep our distance from the dealers and lose their numbers but we are always able to walk into the store and grab Alcohol. In my opinion, Alcohol makes a pretty poor substitute for Heroin, which only serves to make me drink more.

 

[December Flower]

Alcohol is the worst drug I know.
Especially because people underestimate it due to its legality and availability.
Only because something is so abundant in nature that you can't ban it without being a fucking braindead idiot, doesn't mean it's healthy or good.