Alcoholism Thread V. ti martwonies

[Kenaz]

I love how you put this, its so simple but not what you think of at all when you're in that mindset. Its amazing how drugs and alcohol can blind us from such obvious truths.

Absolutely.

I'm wondering what excuses others used to pretend they didn't have a problem. Here were a couple of my old favorites.

"I'm not an alcoholic: I never drink in the morning."

"I'm not an alcoholic: I don't drink nearly as much as my friends do."

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ I frequently hear-

"I'm not an alcoholic: I still have my... [insert job, home, license or other basic necessity]"

These are the last things to go when you've fucked up your life nearly beyond repair but to an addict/alcoholic, any excuse will do if the result of such is perpetuating that behavior.

 

[Cyc]

Absolutely.

I'm wondering what excuses others used to pretend they didn't have a problem. Here were a couple of my old favorites.

"I'm not an alcoholic: I never drink in the morning."

"I'm not an alcoholic: I don't drink nearly as much as my friends do."

I avoid the term "alcoholic" because it's a dirty 12-stepper word, and I'd rather drink my liver pickled than identify with that group.

I think it's just as valid to honestly admit that you have a drinking problem, and to what extent.

 

[Kenaz]

^ I frequently hear-

"I'm not an alcoholic: I still have my... [insert job, home, license or other basic necessity]"

These are the last things to go when you've fucked up your life nearly beyond repair but to an addict/alcoholic, any excuse will do if the result of such is perpetuating that behavior.

I used to use the "I still have a job" excuse. Even when it was the fifth job I had held that year after losing the previous four for lateness and hangover-related incompetence. (I also never drank on the job, which was yet another one of my excuses).

 

[Kenaz]

I avoid the term "alcoholic" because it's a dirty 12-stepper word, and I'd rather drink my liver pickled than identify with that group.

I think it's just as valid to honestly admit that you have a drinking problem, and to what extent.

You can get sober without the 12 steps, contrary to what some AA Fundamentalists will try to tell you. But I will say that AA definitely helped me out when I was in the early stages of drying out. Talking to other people who had a drinking problem and who were ready to call me on my bullshit really put things into clearer perspective and set me on the way to finding my own path to sobriety.

I've actually heard quite a few variants on "I can't stop drinking because that would mean joining AA and I hate AA." It's yet another of those lies the addiction tells you. As you pointed out, admitting you have a drinking problem is a good start. (I'd say "the first step" but let's avoid that terminology for now). But if you don't want to do AA, you may want to ask yourself what you do want to do about your problem.

I call myself an alcoholic because I'm an alcoholic. I can't control my drinking, and when I try I get myself into a whole heap of trouble. I fit the medical and socially accepted definitions of the word, so I see nothing to be gained by playing at semantics.

If you genuinely don't like AA but want to get sober by other means, that's perfectly valid. I've only attended a few meetings in my life and have never become fully immersed in the 12-step life. But if you're(*) just using "I hate AA" as an excuse to keep drinking, then at least be honest enough to admit that is what you are doing and that you would rather keep boozing than deal with your alcohol issues.

(*) rhetorical "you," not you the OP. I don't know you the OP well enough to say one way or the other where you are with your drinking, and it would be none of my business even if I did. You'll get sober when and if you decide to get sober: it's not up to me to chide you or try to save you in any case.

 

[Cyc]

I think South Park made a really good episode that reflects my attitude toward alcohol addiction.

You can watch it if you like.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^If you truly believe that read about the *success* of the moderation management theory... it sounds great on paper but experience and statistics demonstrate pretty convincingly that when the vast majority of people lose control over their use, they can not go back to controlled, moderate use.

Randy then declares that he will never drink again, but Stan objects to this too, saying that if Randy completely avoids drinking, drinking is still controlling his life, and that true discipline is figuring out how to live in moderation. The two then walk home while discussing how much drinking would be proper. SOURCE

Like the writings by Moderation Management, it sounds great but this is incongruous with drinking in our society. If will power were sufficient to control use, we wouldn't have nearly as many drug/alcohol-associated problems.

 

[burn out]

I think South Park made a really good episode that reflects my attitude toward alcohol addiction.

You can watch it if you like.

that is a good episode (assuming it is the episode i think it is, i didn't click the link lol) and really makes AA look rather silly. not that i don't think AA has helped a lot of people. my main issue with AA is how its members often seem so locked into one way of thinking about alcoholism, even when logic and evidence contradict it. is it not possible to drop alcohol without dropping rational thought as well? i'm not even reffering to the parts about the higher power, that doesn't bother me, but just the closed mindedness i have percieved.

 

[Kenaz]

that is a good episode (assuming it is the episode i think it is, i didn't click the link lol) and really makes AA look rather silly. not that i don't think AA has helped a lot of people. my main issue with AA is how its members often seem so locked into one way of thinking about alcoholism, even when logic and evidence contradict it. is it not possible to drop alcohol without dropping rational thought as well? i'm not even reffering to the parts about the higher power, that doesn't bother me, but just the closed mindedness i have percieved.

There are certainly a lot of people in AA who are 12-step fundamentalists and who are just as annoying as fundies in any other religious or social movement. (See fundamentalist atheists, Marxists and Christians for examples of what I mean). But there are also a lot of people who have been able to get sober by working the system. If it's a choice between drinking yourself to death and attending a lot of meetings, I'd say go with the meetings. As they say, "Take what you need and leave the rest behind."

It is definitely possible to drop alcohol without becoming an AA member: I managed to do it. But a lot of people find that a more structured approach to sobriety helps them.

Regarding moderation management, I have questions about how effective it would be for someone with a serious alcohol problem. I think there are people who drink too much because of their environment and their social conditioning. They may well be able to learn when to say when. I know that my efforts at moderating my drinking never worked for me, and I know lots of other alcoholics in recovery who are in the same boat.

If you truly are "powerless over alcohol," you're not going to be able to control it enough to say "I'm only going to have a drink with dinner and this weekend I'm only going to consume three beers." Sooner or later it'll be "I had seven beers this weekend so I won't drink for four days this week." Then it will be "I have been binging for two weeks so I'm going to stay sober for two weeks." Etc. For me the best way to control my alcohol consumption is to avoid the stuff altogether. Others may have more success in learning moderation. I'm never one to say that a therapeutic approach doesn't work, but I will say moderation doesn't work for me.

 

[Mariposa]

when i was at my worst drinking i never would have believed anyone who told me that my life would be better without booze in it, even though to be honest it sounds like about the most fucking obvious thing ever.

Yep - hence why I say to myself, "when will I learn"?

I've had no adverse incidents with alcohol since last I posted in here. I hope this continues, as I don't have room in my life for mistakes or missteps at present.

It does really seem obvious, doesn't it? Quit drinking, avoid the BS it causes. How come so many of us have such a hard time with that idea? It is clearly healthier to not drink than it is to drink. Why does alcohol have such a hold on society?

If we examine these questions, then maybe we'll have an easier time resolving our problems with alcohol. And this goes for the unsaid too. I'll say I have an alcohol problem, but others won't. I got hooked on something completely legal but it caused me more drama than any other intoxicant. It's embarrassing but necessary that I admit that. If the worst thing someone can say about me is that I'm a drunk, I'm totally OK with that.

Taking control of alcohol intake mirrors taking control of one's life in general. At first you're scared shitless, but then you develop a plan and a strategy. Days go by when you don't remember the last time you drank, and not because of a hangover.

I wish for us all to have that independence - dependence on a substance truly does destroy life and well-being. I'm getting that independence back slowly but surely - and I assure you it's worth whatever it may take.

 

[jazzyhope]

Is there a thread or place where you can look for treatment & help for alcoholism here?
I only have access to the internet on special occasions now so post quickly please-Thanks

 

[burn out]

^If you truly believe that read about the *success* of the moderation management theory... it sounds great on paper but experience and statistics demonstrate pretty convincingly that when the vast majority of people lose control over their use, they can not go back to controlled, moderate use.



Like the writings by Moderation Management, it sounds great but this is incongruous with drinking in our society. If will power were sufficient to control use, we wouldn't have nearly as many drug/alcohol-associated problems.

i'm glad you brought this up because that was the one part i did not like about the episode, how they actually seemed to discougage total abstinence.

not only do i think leaving alcohol in the dust and moving on with your life is perfectly acceptable (and not akin to still letting alcohol control you) i think it is the superior method.

 

[burn out]

Is there a thread or place where you can look for treatment & help for alcoholism here?
I only have access to the internet on special occasions now so post quickly please-Thanks

this is the thread man, what can we do for you?

 

[phactor]

^If you truly believe that read about the *success* of the moderation management theory... it sounds great on paper but experience and statistics demonstrate pretty convincingly that when the vast majority of people lose control over their use, they can not go back to controlled, moderate use.



Like the writings by Moderation Management, it sounds great but this is incongruous with drinking in our society. If will power were sufficient to control use, we wouldn't have nearly as many drug/alcohol-associated problems.

I do get the point you are trying to make,

However, Plenty of people often age out of dangerous and or alcoholic drinking patterns. Shit, 95 percent of the student body at any university would be considered "Alcoholic" by the AA/Abstinence only definition.

Thing is these people are very seldom sample in drug and alcohol abuse figures, which tend to focus only on the populations in detox/rehab facilities.

AA/Abstinence only works for some people, but it doesn't for others. I'm working on it by myself right now. I know where to turn for help when I need it, but it just seems that becoming older is the biggest factor in cutting/reducing my Alcohol use.

 

[Kenaz]

I do get the point you are trying to make,

However, Plenty of people often age out of dangerous and or alcoholic drinking patterns. Shit, 95 percent of the student body at any university would be considered "Alcoholic" by the AA/Abstinence only definition.

Thing is these people are very seldom sample in drug and alcohol abuse figures, which tend to focus only on the populations in detox/rehab facilities.

AA/Abstinence only works for some people, but it doesn't for others. I'm working on it by myself right now. I know where to turn for help when I need it, but it just seems that becoming older is the biggest factor in cutting/reducing my Alcohol use.

I don't doubt that most problem drinkers will benefit from Moderation Management or similar programs. The problem is that a lot of problem drinkers won't... and given the nature of the illness, it's easy to turn Moderation Management into yet another excuse to avoid facing their issue. ("Well, I'm only passing out three nights a week instead of five now -- so I'm obviously not an alcoholic!")

To be fair, MM says as much, and encourages people who can't moderate their drinking to go with an abstinence-based program instead.

 

[**hAyzzZZ**]

I don't want to post in here, but I can't talk to my friends about this.

I'm concerned the things I do when I drink are getting more and more risky. The past few months, when I go out and drink I go *crazy*. Not violent, I don't cry, I don't fuck people in bathrooms, but I take risks that I would never ever do sober. And it is effecting the people around me, and I laugh it off, but secretly if I was them? I would slap me in the face.

But I just play it off that I like to party, extremely, hard. But I feel the need to drink, almost every day. That's not to say I do, now, but fuck 2 months down the line?

I am worried what I'm going to do next when I go out and drink. But I just love that loss of inhibitions so fucking much, I feel like yet again, I've just traded drugs for another fucking addiction.

I don't even know the purpose in writing this.

 

[Kenaz]

I don't want to post in here, but I can't talk to my friends about this.

I'm concerned the things I do when I drink are getting more and more risky. The past few months, when I go out and drink I go *crazy*. Not violent, I don't cry, I don't fuck people in bathrooms, but I take risks that I would never ever do sober. And it is effecting the people around me, and I laugh it off, but secretly if I was them? I would slap me in the face.

But I just play it off that I like to party, extremely, hard. But I feel the need to drink, almost every day. That's not to say I do, now, but fuck 2 months down the line?

I am worried what I'm going to do next when I go out and drink. But I just love that loss of inhibitions so fucking much, I feel like yet again, I've just traded drugs for another fucking addiction.

I don't even know the purpose in writing this.

You traded a drug that was expensive, illegal and required effort to obtain for a drug which is cheap, legal and readily available. In the short term alcohol abuse won't do as much damage to your life and body as meth. In the long term it's just as lethal. It's like the difference between putting a bullet in your head and starting your car in a closed garage: at least with alcohol you have some time to think about the consequences before you do irrepirable harm.

You may find as time goes on that your drinking levels off and you're able to manage alcohol. Or you may find otherwise. If you do, you've already managed to kick one addiction, so you're certainly strong enough to kick another one. But you definitely want to keep an eye on your drinking at the very least, and do what you have to do when you have to do it.

 

[RedLeader]

I don't even know the purpose in writing this.

Hey, I know I've been kinda slack in keep up contact with ya over the past few months (sorry, I fail ), but you know where to find me if you need someone. And don't feel weird about admitting stuff in here. TDS knows all of my dirty secrets by now, or at least most of them, while I'd be damned telling a lot of such in real life. Just know that you've always got us crazy friends all around the world.

 

[phactor]

My taper is going good so far, only having 2 tonight. I probably could get away with just stopping, but the tapering helps me prepare mentally. However, last time I took a couple of weeks off it was much easier then I had built up in my mind. Had a really good weightlifting session which always helps... slight headache and anxiety, but that could just be from stress

I like how quickly I now fall back into healthy habits. I didn't work out much last week and felt terribly guilty until today.

hayzzz - Keep any eye on your drinking levels at the very least. My drinking picked up when my opiate use reduced to a few times a year. I struggled to get a handle on it for years and still have a ways to go.

 

[Cyc]

Next week is "reading week" and that means I have no school. I'm worried..