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Alcoholics Anonymous

jrws said:
I love AA but AA doesn't keep me sober.
Only stim abuse seems to keep me sober. Wait a second...
Denial is a hell of a drug.
Stick around. You will laugh and you will most certainly cry.
Spiritual vs. Religious phooey. It don't matter just go and help your self get as much out of it as you can.
It is a cult. A remarkably benevolent one.

I also do this and it might help you to.

Home - SMART Recovery

SMART Recovery is the leading evidence-based addiction recovery program. Join a free meeting today and begin experiencing a Life Beyond Addiction.
www.smartrecovery.org www.smartrecovery.org
They have been doing mostly online meetings long before COVID so the community is pretty sophisticated in that sense.
It is not a spiritual or faith based program.
It is based on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.
There are way fewer members hence there are less meetings but so what?

I do everything I can to help myself because ETOH is doing all it can to keep me mad until it takes life itself away.
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Certainly . Addiction is a bitch and if someone has to be brainwashed to get off alcohol (or drugs, or whatever ) then I’m not gonna knock that. Whatever works for the person.

They mean well. They have produced some amazing results.
 
jrws said:
This brain is filthy!
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Hey just curious from the AA perspective. Say an alcoholic stops drinking for a year BUT develops a poly substance addiction to crack and heroin, loses their kid, spouse , career , is in and out of jail and overdoses on heroin frequently and has to be administered Naloxone (and all around are in worse shape them when they were alcoholic ). Can they keep collecting AA chips as long as they stay off the alcohol ?
 
the_void said:
Hey just curious from the AA perspective. Say an alcoholic stops drinking for a year BUT develops a poly substance addiction to crack and heroin, loses their kid, spouse , career , is in and out of jail and overdoses on heroin frequently and has to be administered Naloxone (and all around are in worse shape them when they were alcoholic ). Can they keep collecting AA chips as long as they stay off the alcohol ?
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It is a self-governing program so you can get away with any farce your addiction comes up with. AA group conscience would be that usage of any mood or mind altering substance is a relapse. Slamming a bottle of NyQuil or taking two percosets leftover from a root canal is a relapse. Most of the community are hip to mainstream hard drug usage and consider it the same as drinking, and most alcoholics ARE poly drug abusers or have been in the past. NA is actually where the inversion clicks with some of its members, in other words, some NA "addicts" don't identify as alcoholics and are only worried about staying clean from their DOC. They aren't abstaining from drinking but it is fringe to think that way there these days.

Twenty years ago in AA, taking SSRIs or benzos as prescribed was frowned upon, and you would hear the hardliners disdain for the people who used those "jellybeans" as crutches. Hardliner says, "I never take anything stronger than an aspirin." I've heard that many many times over the years and those guys really don't, refusing pain medications even for surgery recovery which must be painful as hell. I ask them why and the answer is along the lines of "Once I feel that hydrocodone I know I will be right back on the needle." But AA changes and adapts to the times very well and today taking psychiatric meds is called "outside help" and the alcoholic is free to consider themselves sober. Over the last ten years or so that controversy exists about cannabis. "Jim says he is three years sober but he is on the Marijuana Maintenance Program." Jim's recovery isn't as good as the person saying that. I think in ten years it might also be considered outside help.

I like the AA community a lot, and I go to meetings often, call my sponsor every day, and I almost do it right. But, I feel like I am there to reinforce total abstinence from alcohol at all costs. Very arbitrarily I forbid myself cannabis lately, even though it is an "ally" and has never destroyed my life, or caused me to escalate to drinking or other drug abuses. But I don't want to hide it from my sponsor so I just don't use it for now. On the other hand, my biweekly amp fueled fap marathons are my own business! They never ruined my life or almost killed me! (Well... not directly but they didn't land in your merits column when your wife considered divorcing you or not.) For the last few weeks I have been abusing meth daily and I am 100% certain I won't drink and waste any methamp for as long as it lasts. So, I am still three weeks free from the booze beast and that is the mask I wear in AA.
 
jrws said:
It is a self-governing program so you can get away with any farce your addiction comes up with. AA group conscience would be that usage of any mood or mind altering substance is a relapse. Slamming a bottle of NyQuil or taking two percosets leftover from a root canal is a relapse. Most of the community are hip to mainstream hard drug usage and consider it the same as drinking, and most alcoholics ARE poly drug abusers or have been in the past. NA is actually where the inversion clicks with some of its members, in other words, some NA "addicts" don't identify as alcoholics and are only worried about staying clean from their DOC. They aren't abstaining from drinking but it is fringe to think that way there these days.

Twenty years ago in AA, taking SSRIs or benzos as prescribed was frowned upon, and you would hear the hardliners disdain for the people who used those "jellybeans" as crutches. Hardliner says, "I never take anything stronger than an aspirin." I've heard that many many times over the years and those guys really don't, refusing pain medications even for surgery recovery which must be painful as hell. I ask them why and the answer is along the lines of "Once I feel that hydrocodone I know I will be right back on the needle." But AA changes and adapts to the times very well and today taking psychiatric meds is called "outside help" and the alcoholic is free to consider themselves sober. Over the last ten years or so that controversy exists about cannabis. "Jim says he is three years sober but he is on the Marijuana Maintenance Program." Jim's recovery isn't as good as the person saying that. I think in ten years it might also be considered outside help.

I like the AA community a lot, and I go to meetings often, call my sponsor every day, and I almost do it right. But, I feel like I am there to reinforce total abstinence from alcohol at all costs. Very arbitrarily I forbid myself cannabis lately, even though it is an "ally" and has never destroyed my life, or caused me to escalate to drinking or other drug abuses. But I don't want to hide it from my sponsor so I just don't use it for now. On the other hand, my biweekly amp fueled fap marathons are my own business! They never ruined my life or almost killed me! (Well... not directly but they didn't land in your merits column when your wife considered divorcing you or not.) For the last few weeks I have been abusing meth daily and I am 100% certain I won't drink and waste any methamp for as long as it lasts. So, I am still three weeks free from the booze beast and that is the mask I wear in AA.
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*Last night I admitted to my sponsor that I have been smoking meth. This morning I also told him that even though I haven't hit the pipe in twenty four hours, meth is a hell of an addiction and don't believe anything I say yet.
 
jrws said:
It is a self-governing program so you can get away with any farce your addiction comes up with. AA group conscience would be that usage of any mood or mind altering substance is a relapse. Slamming a bottle of NyQuil or taking two percosets leftover from a root canal is a relapse. Most of the community are hip to mainstream hard drug usage and consider it the same as drinking, and most alcoholics ARE poly drug abusers or have been in the past. NA is actually where the inversion clicks with some of its members, in other words, some NA "addicts" don't identify as alcoholics and are only worried about staying clean from their DOC. They aren't abstaining from drinking but it is fringe to think that way there these days.

Twenty years ago in AA, taking SSRIs or benzos as prescribed was frowned upon, and you would hear the hardliners disdain for the people who used those "jellybeans" as crutches. Hardliner says, "I never take anything stronger than an aspirin." I've heard that many many times over the years and those guys really don't, refusing pain medications even for surgery recovery which must be painful as hell. I ask them why and the answer is along the lines of "Once I feel that hydrocodone I know I will be right back on the needle." But AA changes and adapts to the times very well and today taking psychiatric meds is called "outside help" and the alcoholic is free to consider themselves sober. Over the last ten years or so that controversy exists about cannabis. "Jim says he is three years sober but he is on the Marijuana Maintenance Program." Jim's recovery isn't as good as the person saying that. I think in ten years it might also be considered outside help.

I like the AA community a lot, and I go to meetings often, call my sponsor every day, and I almost do it right. But, I feel like I am there to reinforce total abstinence from alcohol at all costs. Very arbitrarily I forbid myself cannabis lately, even though it is an "ally" and has never destroyed my life, or caused me to escalate to drinking or other drug abuses. But I don't want to hide it from my sponsor so I just don't use it for now. On the other hand, my biweekly amp fueled fap marathons are my own business! They never ruined my life or almost killed me! (Well... not directly but they didn't land in your merits column when your wife considered divorcing you or not.) For the last few weeks I have been abusing meth daily and I am 100% certain I won't drink and waste any methamp for as long as it lasts. So, I am still three weeks free from the booze beast and that is the mask I wear in AA.
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Thanks for the education . I actually did attend AA intro meets for couple months every day in the beginning one of my sobriety from meth / heroin addiction (I never had a problem with alcohol ) . That helped get me through the initial stages when the cravings for dope hit

Before that , I did try to work the program in NA. I got sponsors and everything. Eventually I repeatedly got offered dope and was triggered , hence I decided to try lounging at AA instead

I get that Drug use is frowned upon in AA , but what if you’re honest with the sponsor/community that you’re on a downward spiral from crack / heroin can you still pick up chips ?

If John Doe drank morning till night for a year , quit that , but has been doing crack / heroin for 20 years BUT never had a single drink in all that time . Can he go pick up a 20 year chip at AA with the community’s support ?

Thanks
 
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the_void said:
Thanks for the education . I actually did attend AA intro meets for couple months every day in the beginning one of my sobriety from meth / heroin addiction (I never had a problem with alcohol ) . That helped get me through the initial stages when the cravings for dope hit

Before that , I did try to work the program in NA. I got sponsors and everything. Eventually I repeatedly got offered dope and was triggered , hence I decided to try lounging at AA instead

I get that Drug use is frowned upon in AA , but what if you’re honest with the sponsor/community that you’re on a downward spiral from crack / heroin can you still pick up chips ?

If John Doe drank morning till night for a year , quit that , but has been doing crack / heroin for 20 years BUT never had a single drink in all that time . Can he go pick up a 20 year chip at AA with the community’s support ?

Thanks
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No and not really. I mean, when they do chips and you walk up there they are going to hand you a chip and give you a hug, but some people are probably going to say something privately to that person.

Same thing pretty much. John Doe would have no problem if he hid crack / heroin usage well, but if it was obvious or he shared it, no one will challenge his ask for the chip and he will get it, but the community will not be supporting it.

I think what I might do is start a support group that works just like you said. "Our primary purpose is to stop drinking alcohol."
 
Oh brother just what I needed to see to make me question why I even bother with AA again it might even make me drink more one of those constitutionally incapables as they insult them as such
 
dragonix said:
Oh brother just what I needed to see to make me question why I even bother with AA again it might even make me drink more one of those constitutionally incapables as they insult them as such
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Does it make you drink more because it's triggering to you?? If so, I can totally understand that. I used to get mad-triggered in my therapy sessions when discussing my drinking problem. My therapist would be like "you're going to get wine on the way home aren't you?" and I'd just say "yep...."
 
SMART Recovery is one alternative support group to AA/NA. SMART is a science based recovery program founded on the principles of CBT Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and DBT(similar to CBT). The group does not believe in a higher power and there is no shaming someone for relapsing because relapse is one of the stages of addiction and recovery according to the current evidence and theory of addiction. Try to Google them and see if a meeting is held in your local area. And feel free to ask me about SMART. The program teaches people how to deal with their cravings- as feeling, thinking, and our actions are interrelated. Peace.
 
I would rather take a five percent gamble with AA meetings like there might only really be a five percent chance it works for me as studies have revealed finally some data on this program not just word of God nor mouth because there is a 96.66% I will die trying on my own but I am also doing outpatient even though I am not thrilled at least the appts are all virtual still lol
 
Opi_Kid_Rock said:
SMART Recovery is one alternative support group to AA/NA. SMART is a science based recovery program founded on the principles of CBT Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and DBT(similar to CBT). The group does not believe in a higher power and there is no shaming someone for relapsing because relapse is one of the stages of addiction and recovery according to the current evidence and theory of addiction. Try to Google them and see if a meeting is held in your local area. And feel free to ask me about SMART. The program teaches people how to deal with their cravings- as feeling, thinking, and our actions are interrelated. Peace.
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Thanks for this suggestion. At one point in my life I had to go to court-ordered AA. I was blown away at the amount of people trashing alcohol addiction yet at the same time, were clearly addicted to coffee and cigarettes. That and the whole Higher Power thing was a huge turn off for me. I only completed the bare minimum of what the court ordered and did not receive a sponsor nor did I complete very many of the 12 steps.

Quit drinking on my own nearly 20 years later. But had the SMART Recovery been around back with the court order, I definitely would have opted for that.
 
Jerry Atrick said:
Thanks for this suggestion. At one point in my life I had to go to court-ordered AA. I was blown away at the amount of people trashing alcohol addiction yet at the same time, were clearly addicted to coffee and cigarettes. That and the whole Higher Power thing was a huge turn off for me. I only completed the bare minimum of what the court ordered and did not receive a sponsor nor did I complete very many of the 12 steps.

Quit drinking on my own nearly 20 years later. But had the SMART Recovery been around back with the court order, I definitely would have opted for that.
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Interesting. I found the SMART recovery program quite useless for me (but everyone is different!!!), but perhaps I just wasn't ready to quit...?

I attend AA meetings sporadically and I just take what I need from them. I've tried really hard to get in to the higher power thing but it just does not resonate with me, and I also have never had a sponsor or completed the 12 steps. I've loosely gone through the 12 steps and ya know, taken an inventory on all of my shortcomings, and apologised to those I've harmed, that kinda shit. And hey, sometimes the only thing I've gotten out of going to a meeting is taking up time that I would normally be sitting at home drinking! :D Whatever helps I guess?
 
n3ophy7e said:
Interesting. I found the SMART recovery program quite useless for me (but everyone is different!!!), but perhaps I just wasn't ready to quit...?

I attend AA meetings sporadically and I just take what I need from them. I've tried really hard to get in to the higher power thing but it just does not resonate with me, and I also have never had a sponsor or completed the 12 steps. I've loosely gone through the 12 steps and ya know, taken an inventory on all of my shortcomings, and apologised to those I've harmed, that kinda shit. And hey, sometimes the only thing I've gotten out of going to a meeting is taking up time that I would normally be sitting at home drinking! :D Whatever helps I guess?
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Yes, whatever helps. I reread my post and wanted to reiterate that my experience with AA was unique to me. I have friends who have successfully stopped drinking and using with AA/NA, some of them celebrating years of sobriety. So I know the program works for many or most, just didn't for me. At the time I was attending meetings, I was not ready to quit either. So I'm sure that played a factor as well.
 
SMART isn't getting me clean that's all I know about it around here.

Still not sure about other programs I don't think there is a magic bullet or maybe there is but it doesn't work the same for everyone isn't the same casing but I have no better ideas and am not discontinuing using all substances by my own thinking as I know I have to

Certainly meeting programs/communities are only one tool in my arsenal felt like vampires broke into it rebuilding it man
 
I want it for myself. I know I cannot fix others but if trying to help them fixes me so be it Billy.

Stanford coming in with a backswing against Harvard's Lance Dodes.

Love ya Lance but your books just didn't do the trick for my issue.

Back to AA you can laugh at me all the way flashing your science that doesn't heal in my face.

 
dragonix said:
I want it for myself. I know I cannot fix others but if trying to help them fixes me so be it Billy.

Stanford coming in with a backswing against Harvard's Lance Dodes.

Love ya Lance but your books just didn't do the trick for my issue.

Back to AA you can laugh at me all the way flashing your science that doesn't heal in my face.

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I don't think anyone in here is laughing at you. Sounds like AA suits you better than the alternatives. Good on you for finding something that works.

Like you said above, there is no magic bullet or quick fix to addiction. AA is a great tool to have in your arsenal.
 
dragonix said:
SMART isn't getting me clean that's all I know about it around here.
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SMART didn't help me at all either. It is really helpful for a lot of people, but definitely not me. It leaves way too much room/leniency for continuing to use.

If AA meetings help you in any way at all, keep going to them <3 Like I've said before, sometimes the only way that AA meetings were useful for me is that it would take up time that I would otherwise be at home drinking alone.
 
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