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Alcoholics Anonymous, a religon?

Enlitx said:
I think it is a bit of both. The addiction troubles them because they believe it is a sin or the work of the devil, but it also impedes on their daily functionality. I think you are both right.
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The ones that I have seen, they have not had any belief in any religion, and hence they did not see it as sin, but it did trouble them in their health, their relationships and their life as a whole. They were going down fast, so they decided the only other option, since they tried everything else. It works for some it does not work for all. The ones, who have lost all control over their addiction, they found relief to place their mind power over onto something else, external of themselves.

[[ I am kind of glad" you came back, and that you are seemingly milder, and I hope you stay that way, now don't go running down or breaking down every syllable, and though I expect you to disagree and all that, I also hope you have come to P&S to enlarge your philosophical perspective and insight or intuition and that would be great, because then I won't feel like I am beating my head against a wall! So let's be more civil this time around and you have started sort of well so far]]
 
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L O V E L I F E said:
AA treats adults as children.

Just like many . . .
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Only because in the condition of dependancy, the child within the person has not grown, they were highjacked from their childhood, and pushed into adulthood. In order to outgrow their dependency, that part needs to be reached to and brought forward to heal. It is Inner Child work!
 
MrM said:
Can i choose my car as my higher power? It's got way more horsepower than i have and by any sensible definition of the word is more powerful (power = work done / time taken) than me.

If not then it's a religion.
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I know people in the program who consider their coffee cup a higher power, or the chair they are sitting across from, or their car, or the whole of the room it doesnt seem to matter much as long as you can start to fathom a power greater than yourself.
 
Many of the people who do not have the intellectual capacity to read between the lines and figure out the true meaning of spirituality will tell you it is a religion. It shares many of the principles of religion, just as many fraternal organizations do. But it's stated primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics achieve sobriety. It's not there to convert you to Christianity, even though some Christian AA's may think that's part of the AA program. It's not.

For people like me who had lost all hope that they could regain sanity, it made me think about my alcoholism in a way I was not willing to do on my own. It made me examine my behavior and how insane it was. It gave me faith that I could recover and get sober. My faith in myself was hopelessly lost otherwise I would have changed on my own. But I needed help and they gave me that help through meetings, support, and encouragement. The help was free and available to me all of the time. How anybody can knock that is beyond me. If you don't have a bad alcohol problem and you don't need AA to get sober, that's great for you. But for all of the people that it helps, it's truly a miracle.
 
Well...it IS kinda creepy at first. Really, really, creepy. Especially when you're jettisoned into going to AA or 12-step meetings by an outside force.
 
You don't really belong there if you've been forced to go. It's for people who have a desire to stop drinking. The preamble even says that "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking."

Many people go because they were court ordered and they have no desire to stop drinking. Some of them identify with the stories from others and they begin to change their minds about that. When I went, I was desperate. I wanted to stop but couldn't even though I had tried on my own countless times. I didn't have alot of options.

I understand what you mean about some of the things coming across as creepy. I didn't feel comfortable talking to strangers about the personal details of my problem. But part of the whole program is learning how to overcome our fears and get on with living life a better way.

If you've been court ordered and you think AA won't help you, then pay your debt to society by showing up and getting your paper signed. You don't have to pay any attention to what's being said. Or, ask the judge for an alternative sentence. Then go out and take care of your problem on your own. If you cant and you need help, you know where you can go. If you're fine without it, that's even better for you.
 
my experience was that it was an anti-intellectual pseudo-cult with deep christian undertones, trying to advertise itself as a community club and self-help group. the way their doctrines and writings slowly insinuated themselves into me still makes me sort of shake.

for me, there was always already the story of the alcoholic and the recovery, and i struggled very hard to sort of write myself into that narrative. i got really fucking neurotic.

i was watching episodes of 'intervention' this week, and you know all you hear from the 'interventionist' is that he or she is offering the addict 'help' and a 'plan.' he doesn't tell them on camera that its a 12 step program run by the big book. [of course this is just a television drama, but i kind of think of this sort of masking, or borderline deception as a common method the 12steppers use beyond television dramas].

the whole fucking program and all the literature is just riddled with double speak and deception in my opinion. sometimes bill wilson describes alcoholism as a medical / physical disease, other times a spiritual ailment, most of the time both. ugh it makes me sick lol.
 
AfterGlow said:
You don't really belong there if you've been forced to go. It's for people who have a desire to stop drinking. The preamble even says that "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking."

Many people go because they were court ordered and they have no desire to stop drinking. Some of them identify with the stories from others and they begin to change their minds about that. When I went, I was desperate. I wanted to stop but couldn't even though I had tried on my own countless times. I didn't have alot of options.

I understand what you mean about some of the things coming across as creepy. I didn't feel comfortable talking to strangers about the personal details of my problem. But part of the whole program is learning how to overcome our fears and get on with living life a better way.

If you've been court ordered and you think AA won't help you, then pay your debt to society by showing up and getting your paper signed. You don't have to pay any attention to what's being said. Or, ask the judge for an alternative sentence. Then go out and take care of your problem on your own. If you cant and you need help, you know where you can go. If you're fine without it, that's even better for you.
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I am an "Anonymous", and I think it has helped greatly as of yet. There's forcing, and then there's coercion. We were told that "if you ended up in this room, you probably belong here". I am using the 12 steps as set up to my benefit, but there was probably a more Unitarian way that AA and NA could have evolved.
 
My experience with AA differs from many in that I live a secular life. I attended AA of my own volition in an effort to win my battle with the bottle - no court orders or familial pressure.

This thread is my story in AA.

I found that by regaining rather than relinquishing my control over alcohol, I could live a better life. My story and its development stand on its own, so I present that as an example.

The only thing I found "creepy" was that sponsorship for women drinkers was lacking, and that I was "love-bombed" from the start.

Separating the wheat from the chaff, as Samael said, is essential to success in the program. I couldn't hack away the lack of authenticity.
 
i definitely agree it is christian based and highly anti-intellectual. they hate questions, i mean what the fuck. that was the problem i had with "the program".

I personally cant have blind faith in the sober god, i mean, really come on. and the fact is anyone with an open mind or an intellectual background of skepticism and questioning will never fit in with those people, too many of them are closed minded dogmatists
 
I haven't attended but have watched with interest some people who use these groups. My take on it is that it can be cultish with all the usual risks associated with a person or clique becoming dominant amongst a group. I understand there is some variability in peoples experiences due to this. Personally I think that acccepting you "have no control" over your vices is tantamount to breaking peoples will, thus making them ideal subjects to carry on the AA/NA cult.
In my view all addiction is psychological in origin & to break it you need to be able to identify what this consists of & then take proactive steps to address whatever issues arise. it helps if you can be a tiny bit self aware tho.
 
My dad has been in AA for 36 years and my mom for 29. They would never call it a religion and I dont think there is any use in calling it a religion but it is extremely similar in many ways. My parents lives are based around the steps and the overall precepts of AA. Its truly an unbelievable organization and has made so many people happier in their lives. It gets a bad rep. but I have been to tons of meetings and there is nothing bad a bout it. You can make it into whatever you want it to be and nobody will question or bother you. The only thing they will do is support you and wish the best
 
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