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advice-scrambled speech from very frequent 2c-x use??

CRICKETBEE

CRICKETBEE

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
139
I am interested in knowing if anyone has experienced their speech patterns worsening (scrambled words, train-wrecked sentences, trouble communicating,etc), after prolonged 2c-x usage.(mainly 2c-b, 2c-d, 2c-i for between 2-5 times a week for 4 or 5 months)

This certainly is not a positive after effect and while I am optimistic things will return to normal after a period of not using 2c's, it certainly is making me stop and think about the benefits of moderation. I never experienced any such negative effects from a steady regiment of Acid. I wish I knew how long I could expect such a state to last.

I have experienced many situations where the wrong word is coming out when I am thinking the proper word, a scramble effect where words come out sounding indecipherable and have to be repeated, and in general I have a much harder time forming long sentences and have been nervous about getting into long discourse with people because I find myself beginning a sentence and then not knowing how to end it. very very unlike me and it is making me very self-conscious and "dumb"

I'd love to know if any other frequent/excessive 2c user has seen any such effects.

Also of interest to me is whether or not anyone can propose what would actually be causing this on a pharmacological level and what might help. I have already been reducing my intake of PD's, getting more sleep and drinking more liquids.

thanks
 
Sounds like it could be an anxiogenic effect, but who knows really? I`m reasonably sure there haven`t been extensive studies on the long term effects of excessive chronic usage patterns like yours. LSD itself is far more benign and specific in its effects on the brain than the 2C`s, which are really just psychedelic derivatives of amphetamine.

In short, consider reducing your intake to precisely zero for a long time, perhaps 3-6 months. That`s a lot of phenethylamines to be doing in such a short time frame. I`m not sure what else anyone will be able to tell you here.
 
Or high doses of neurontin, though a would imagine the mechanism is completly different.
Can't really answer the question, did alot of 2c-whatever for awhile and didn't notice anything like that. Stop taking it and wait is the only advise I can give.
 
interesting. i will certainly look up anxiogenic.
i do use ketamine occasionally, in fact i did about 100 milligrams last sunday but i would hardly call my use of k chronic...basically a 100milligrams every few weeks...could this actually be the possible source of the issue? is much known about how ketamine interacts with the 2cs? usually when i use K, it is on top of acid and 2c-b.

thanks for all the adivce
 
FnB is refering to binges on high-doses. I experienced the same, and it was totally reversible after a week or so once the binge stopped. In my experience as well as others', this does not apply to occasional, sporadic dosing - only to long-term chronic abuse.

However, it is well known that abuse of psychedelics (2Cs or otherwise) will lead to a lot of cognitive problems. The only thing you can do now is stop all drugs (weed included) for a very long time if you care at all about your health.

FS: I know what you're talking about. It feels as though the tongue gets paralyzed and stuck. This is different from K, which mostly affects memory (word-recall), not so much vocalization. Both, IMO, are different from what the OP is talking about, which seems to be due to severe cognitive impairement.
 
"However, it is well known that abuse of psychedelics (2Cs or otherwise) will lead to a lot of cognitive problems. "

can you point me towards some studies or threads that document this? i would love to know more about this. I had always thought that there was very little research done on the long or short term effects of drugs such as 2c-i, 2c-d, etc. And really if I had known about these studies beforehand, I wouldnt have pushed it so hard (I dont push it hard with K as I know about the risks)


I was actually wondering the other day if there was a risk profile sticky on Bluelight which showed the short and long term risks associated with different drugs which for rc's could be taken from first hand accounts, etc as well as whatever data is out there. it could be very very valuable when making choices, especially for those of us with addictive personalities.

growing up with acid which i consider safe as water (for me personally) I suppose since I couldnt find any studies that said otherwise, I assumed that the main effects of doing tons of the 2c's would basically cause the same kinds of lasting effects.

and granted, my day to day life is fine, but if i was worried enough to start this thread, than it is a real sign that constant use or abuse of 2c's (which is very very common with a lot of people) can cause some alarming effects.

by the way, it is kind of a problem where the tongue gets stuck and paralyzed but there is a cognitive aspect to it...as if certain areas of thinking (which you could think of visually as hallways), which are hallways i am used to going down, well, I will go down that hallway in the middle of conversation and there will be an obstruction. so, in the moment, I have to reverse directions and try to find another hallway to go down to complete my thought.
the parts of my consciousness or brain which are involved in deciding what I am TRYING to say are getting pissed because I know exactly what I am trying to get at but I find myself using far more clunky sentences to get that idea out as communication. It is not doing anything to my writing skills.



anyway, thanks as always for all the advice. Bl is the best
 
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I don't have any research at the moment. But I do have personal accounts. In fact, I have never met anyone who is a chronic psychedelics user that I'd call "together". Problems range from inflated egos to incoherence to semi-retardedness and everything in between.

Abuse of anything - even water - will hurt you in the end.
 
seems that your case is one people will be referring to when it comes to long and short term effects of drugs such as 2c-i, 2c-d etc...
 
its possible. i dont get the feeling that any of this is stuff that wont go away with a break. but really, the last reason I would ever take PD's is to make myself dumb or cognitively impaired.
 
My intake of 2c compounds varies. At times will only be once a week or every other. Sometimes every other day for weeks on end. I have not noticed any speech effects from myself or fellow comrades.

The only way to tell would be to take a person w no 2c experience an have them take it on a weekly basis. Also would have to eliminate any other drug use while doing it. hard to tell if it is a 2c when taking in other psych compounds.

Impure batches could cause some negative side effects. What ever by product(s) could effect parts of the brain relating to speech. Though it was not till taking in a lot of 2cb and Ket that i noticed "HPPD" type symptoms.
 
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^ Nah the main impurities in 2C-I or 2C-C will be 2C-B and the main impurity in 2C-B will be 2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine; all the others it'll be the beta-nitrostyrene, which isn;'t toxic at the doses it'd be present (were talking 1-2 percent at most).

The main cause would be lack of concentration, which occurs from long term, heavy psychedelic use (I know from experience in my 20s), the inability to keep a train of thought will play havoc with what you come out with


PS it goes away if you stop, but it will take a while if my experience is anything to go by. The effects from heavy dissociative use take even longer
 
that makes a lot of sense about concentration. my focus has been out to lunch lately. i was always severely ADHD but now it is out of control. anyway, thanks so much.
 
this is always the question i ask when i see threads like this: have you maintained a healthy diet through your drug use?

i have a theory that all too often, its the decrease in appetite/food consumption that comes along with chronic use of many drugs that is the real main culprit for effects like this.
 
I experienced the same symptoms a lot even if I was never able to try any 2CXs and DOXs.

IIRC it is called dyphasia and its a common symtom in some psychological disorders, this does not necessarily mean that you have a disorder but its a common long term issue withm many drug users and it's not necessarily permanent, i just hope you learned a lesson and stay off those drugs for a big while.
I can't really remember where exactly I read it but it should have a lot to do with your dopamine system wich is responsable for smooth coordination, you don't seem to have any thought disorder for the moment since your posts look very coherent and without typos for what i noticed.
It could be also caused by an underlying form of anxiety wich is known to cause 'mouth stiffness' or 'mouth twiching', if this is the case you should also experience some shortnes of breath and the feeling of having a 'knot' in your throat, see if some MODERATE use of benzos might help you, if not it could be someting else probably connected to your coordination system. I would advice to stay off any recreational street drugs for some time and see how it goes, pay attention to what your feeling/experiencing and write it down somewhere and see if abstinenece will give you any results, if not talk to a neurologist/psychiatrist and remember to be honest with him and show him your symtoms list in case you forget a detail or two.

I also suggest you read the following pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apraxia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopaminergic_pathways
 
It probably boils down to your Broca's area, a part of the brain that's responsible for language construction.

Most cases of drug-induced word-loss and aphasia can be remedied with a few weeks/months sober, along with however many books you devour in the meantime.
 
thenightwatch said:
this is always the question i ask when i see threads like this: have you maintained a healthy diet through your drug use?

i have a theory that all too often, its the decrease in appetite/food consumption that comes along with chronic use of many drugs that is the real main culprit for effects like this.
Click to expand...

Also have you been exercising? How about getting enough sleep? Use any other drugs? Smoke pot?

All of these factors are things that tend to go along with heavy usage of anything and could be influencing and slowing your recovery.

Being both mentally and physically healthy will likely take care of any of the cognitive side effects.
 
General health is definitely important here, even ignoring this issue, because of how much you are using - I have personally found, though, that the problem you are having becomes markedly more pronounced when I'm not as healthy. I have significant difficulties with word confusion, inability to think of words, inability to speak what I'm thinking, syntax problems, etc. when I am not taking particularly good care of myself, as an overall result of having been on psychiatric medications for years and having used a number of recreational substances. My current regimen of psychiatric drugs can also lead me to experience what I call for lack of a better name "typing dyslexia" where I type things with the wrong spelling even though I know the spelling, or I sometimes simply type the wrong letters altogether. These problems always get significantly worse when I'm not eating well enough and not getting all my vitamins/supplements. Unfortunately I need my medications and self-medication to function appropriately, so I just have to deal with the speaking problems, but I definitely can minimize them by trying to keep well-nourished.
 
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