ADHD - is it that common? Does Adderall stop working?

It is way over diagnosed, especially in the US. One of the issues is a lot of the diagnosis is taking place when a child is really young where there are many other factors in their life that can contribute to exhibiting some of the symptoms of ADHD/ADD. Also, there are a lot of other mental disorders that have many parallels with ADD/ADHD, resulting in a wrong diagnosis. This happens all the time and is why a lot of children or adolescents are on amphetamines, methylphenidate, strattera, lisdexamfetamine, SSRI's, SNRI's, etc. A lot of the children need a different approach and a different diagnosis. Also the education system in America is poorly run, creating "problem kids" who, they start to classify as ADD/ADHD, who really they need a different learning enviroment, as well as a different rewards/consequences system.

You see today that there is a large percentage of male students of all ages performing poorly in school, getting constantly in trouble, being classified as mentally ill, when its the environment of which they are forced to learn in that is causing them to act at. Even in cases where individuals have ADD/ADHD the first approach is pharmacological therapy which doesn't help over come the mental illness which is a possibility when one is a child. There is a decent percentage (I don't remember off the top of my head) that shows that children and adolescents with ADD/ADHD can overcome there mental illness and come out as adults with out it. It is extremely important to use other means of a therapy than the pharmacological approaches because introducing powerful substances like amphetamines, SSRI's, SNRI's, other anti-depressants, etc that are known to alter the brain/body in negative ways. I know for a fact that being on amphetamines for two years in high school before I stopped influences atleast my bodies ability to grow taller (I stopped growing in 9th grade when everyone else continued to grow), and honestly who knows how else it influenced my growing mind at the time. Like I was saying earlier, using non-pharmacological means of therapy can allow a student to overcome the mental dysfunction and live a "normal" life.

Now once the child becomes an adult and still have ADD/ADHD it becomes a life long issue that needs to be address with other forms of therapy besides pharmacological approaches. Not that using pharmacological aid isn't a appropriate form of therapy in a lot of cases, but it needs to be in conjuction with other forms of therapy. This applies to many other mental illnesses like anxiety, personality disorders, etc. Counseling is the best form of therapy out there imo. Being on medication is all well in good if they are practicing better habits and are seeing a mental health professional to try and work with their illness to take advantage of the positives, as well as working around the negatives associated with the illness. Sadly the USA is more about sending patients on their way with pharmacological therapies even scripted by general practitioners who do nothing in terms of improving the patients mental health. Even some Psychiatrists are practicing in a negative fashion by spending an hour or two long session just to give a diagnosis so they can send the patient along home with some medication, and that's the end of it. A lot of the time the doses of medication are too high as well, resulting in a numb patient who can't experience the real world in a way to learn to overcome their problems. I believe that psychiatric medication shouldn't be used to eliminate mental illnesses (with the exception of a few serious illnesses like schizophrenia), but reduce the illness to a point were the patient can work with a counselor to over come the stresses and problems that they suffer.

It always bothers me reading even on bluelight about individuals complaining about the dose of benzos they recieve. Oh booo hooo, you got .5mg of xanax twice a day to help reduce your anxiety, but your upset because you don't feel intoxicated. YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO FEEL FUCKED UP. Its supposed to reduce the levels of anxiety so you can work through the issues at hand so one day you can take them as needed, all the way till you don't need them at all. Same can be said for amphetamines. Yes some people with certain symptoms of ADD/ADHD only being able to be helped at higher doses of amphetamines do need higher doses of amphetamines than others, but alot of individuals feel once the "high", "euphoric" properties go away they need to increase there dose. No, you don't need to increase your dose just because it isn't making you feel like a million bucks any more, the point of being on the medication is to help you concentrate and function at a normal level in society, not to be high while you work or are studying.

ADD/ADHD is a real illness with scientific backings with neurological abnormalities. The problem is the education system, poor parenting, over diagnosing, over medicating, and abuse (people wanting amphetamine scripts to get high). I've read, and can attest to this myself having severe ADHD, that individuals with ADD/ADHD have harder struggles in life than most other out-patient mental illnesses. The effects of being ADD/ADHD (especially if it continues into adulthood, resulting in a life long illness) causes strife to those individuals for the rest of their life. Their relationships with other are sometimes few and far in between, hard to maintain, and romantic ones are largely unsuccessful. Their ability to maintain jobs are very hard. The ability of them to make it to higher levels of education and further more, actually complete degrees are I believe I've read in the single digits. The number of individuals with ADD/ADHD that are in jail/ are criminals or are living in poverty is extremely high. Its not that they are stupid, or that all of them didn't get the proper discipline from their parents. Like I said, I struggle heavily with ADHD, and it is a daily battle I still don't know how I'll ever win. I grew up with great parents that have given me many opportunities to succeed, and my brothers and sisters all have graduated from college (one brother with a BS, another with a BS/MS [UNC-CH for BS, VCU for MS]), or about to start their college career (my sister is about to go to a very high quality uni to study biochem, and has received countless scholarships, graduating highschool in the 10%). It isn't like I grew up in a shitty family with poor parenting (I'm saying this because I hate when people are so ignorant to assume people with "ADD" have shitty parents who didn't beat them enough or whatever), I genuinely struggle with school even being as intelligent as I am, I struggle with daily tasks, I even struggle to even do things I enjoy.

Individuals with out ADD/ADHD who are using amphetamines and the like for cognitive enhancers are quite silly if you ask me. Amphetamines don't make you smarter, they can actually increase the number of mistakes you make in say a paper or on a test. It is more beneficial to rely on your own motivation and mental power to accomplish tasks than it is to use a supplement like amphetamine. You may feel like you know 10x more on it than you do off it, but that isn't the case. Also, using amphetamines to stay up all night to accomplish hw or papers is a terrible thing to do. Your brain still is going to become tired, and your performance even on amphetamines will decline. Your work may be a lot worse because you chose to stay up all night on amphetamines, likely not hydrating yourself, not feeding yourself, becoming sleep deprived etc. The best way to do well in school or on important tasks is to eat healthy, sleep enough/on a regular schedule, and find the study practices that work best for you. This goes for individuals with ADD/ADHD and with out. I try to not use amphetamines that often as I do better when I use them sparingly, and primarily use the brain I have with out pharmacological aid. It also is forcing me to learn to learn in a different manner, which is a timeless skill. One you learn what works for you, you are better off than with any amphetamine like substance.

edit: I had to run through and proof read this, to make edits as I took 7.5mg of amphetamine (trying to stay lower than my prescribed 15mg BID), and I noticed the number of mistakes there was purely because of the amphetamine use. I'm also not a very good writer as it is (I'm better at writing scientific formatted papers. I can kill a lab report)
 
littlepenguin;10673024 said:
that is completely untrue.
amphetamines effect someone with ADD pretty much oppositely as it would effect someone without ADD.
For instance, I have ADHD, and if I took a normal dose of adderall or vyvanse or whatever else, I fall asleep very very quickly. I have to overdose (well, not overdose, but take a pretty large amount) for it to effect me as a stimulant.

People with add or adhd have abnormal amounts of dopamine flowing between the synapses in the brain. Usually higher than most. The medication actually binds and blocks receptors to slow things down a little bit in those with add; as opposed to someone sans add with 'normal' dopaminergic levels, where it just floods the brain with dopamine, hence creating the effects known to most as speedy.

If you truly fall asleep while on amphetamines, then you, sir, area god. I have sever ADHD, and while I don't experience traditional "speedy" effects from adderall, I definitely dont get tired. I get stimulated, but almost as if I'm being brought from below baseline back up to just above baseline, but still feeling altered significantly. I get relaxed, but not sedated, and I think youve got your info mixed up a little bit.
 
Bigfanofthemdrugs - I fall asleep on my meds too if I don't have any reason/stimulation to keep me awake. But yeah, brain chemistry is so fascinating and there are no "one size fits all" models to go by. What a species we are. :)
 
Desoxyn makes me tired, who would have thought, dextro-methamphetamine and sleep were possible, but it's happened to me many a time.
 
I've definitely gotten tired off of dextroamphetamine. Makes sense thats its cause the lower dose. Ya learn something new every day :D
 
This is an awesome topic you have presented for discussion, Artificial Emotion! I truly believe that there is surely no epidemic of ADHD coursing through the United States, however, there IS an epidemic of a population spiraling uncontrollably into the deceptive lure of addiction via prescription pad-happy doctors that are all too happy to misdiagnose and heavily medicate their patients. We are a hopelessly worsening chemically-altered nation of people. Parents are too lazy to use patience with a slightly overactive child, instead they choose to put their kid on a drug to mellow them out without them having to make any extra effort, such as making sure they're getting enough healthy physical activity and a balanced diet. Also, I know for a fact that most of the people I've come across who are prescribed adderall either use it for recreation, or sell it to others who want to. When I was prescribed adderall I simply researched the symptoms of ADD, and repeated them to my doctor, acting as though I was a concerned patient who just wanted to know what was wrong with her... and so, he wrote me a prescription of course! The problem with adderall is even if you are taking it correctly, the effectiveness of the drug fades away the longer you use it. I loved adderall and consumed it excessively for years before I realized it was melting my brain and I was wasting away into a mindless shell of a person. It's not healthy to stay up for 4 straight days speeding! Anyway, back to the topic: I whole-heartedly believe adderall is not the appropriate cure for ADD, but is a powerful stimulant that will ultimately lead to a need for higher and higher dosages. It's evil.... and so is cocaine. But at least adderall doesn't wear off after only 20 minutes, heh
 
Most of the misdiagnosed are in younger kids that parents cant control so they automatically assume that it is ADHD. When really it is lack of good parenting.
 
thecowpuncher;10676606 said:
Most of the misdiagnosed are in younger kids that parents cant control so they automatically assume that it is ADHD. When really it is lack of good parenting.

This, and it's not just the parents who are to blame, it's the teachers too, who are also not completely to blame, as they are trying to do their best on an embarrassingly low budget. Most teachers have to pay out of their own pocket and salaries the equipment to keep their classrooms running, not to mention that class size is increasing to the point where it's not uncommon, at least in CA, to have classes of 40 students (this is also WAY before highschool, like even in elementary/middleschool).

A friend of the family is a teacher and she was telling me about how horrible it is, she has kids with ADHD and also Autism, Dyslexia, Aspergers, etc. and other major learning disabilities and it is just ONE teacher trying to meet the education needs for over FORTY students. If you follow the money trail (or lack thereof) it traces back to the government, heh...
 
Cloudy;10673939 said:
The military finding amphetamines unreliable doesn't mean that the drug stopped working. The way they were using amphetamines was the problem. Like I said, abusing a drug will always result in a loss of efficiency and the way they were using the drug was in a very negative fashion with negative side-effects on the pilots which made it's use unsafe.

Unless you are going to use the exact drug name we can't really have a discussion. I never said amphetamines could stop working, I said Adderall would.
 
Adderral isn't an exact drug name, it is a trade name for a specific quantity and ratio of different amphetamine salts. The addition of some Levo-amphetamine isn't going to deminish the efficiency of the drug by any reasonable amount so I have no idea what you ad talking about. Also more consumers of the adderall formulation aren't actually getting adderall they are getting a generic version of the formulation, amphetamine salts.
 
Cloudy;10677481 said:
Adderral isn't an exact drug name, it is a trade name for a specific quantity and ratio of different amphetamine salts. The addition of some Levo-amphetamine isn't going to deminish the efficiency of the drug by any reasonable amount so I have no idea what you ad talking about. Also more consumers of the adderall formulation aren't actually getting adderall they are getting a generic version of the formulation, amphetamine salts.

Here's what I'm talking about:

Amphetamines usually come as sulfates so when he says amphetamines, I understand amphetamine sulfate. Adderall is only 50% sulfate, the other 2 salts are saccharate and aspartate monohydrate. They don't have the same absorption rates as the sulfate brah! ^_______________________________________^

If you get amphetamine oxazolidinonate or d-amphetamine-L-lysine carboxylate (vyvanse), it's like sugar pills.

My popularity on bluelight has decreased by 50%! Does anyone care that Ksa means "kick some ass"? LOL
 
I care! :)

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I was wondering if you have any sources showing whether or not there is any permanent norepinephrine and/or dopamine depletion with long term (say 5 years+) for amphetamine salts of any kind. I had posted something on that but never could find scholarly resources for it. (???) Of course Big Pharma might not want such info to get out...might mean less customers.
Ksa;10679431 said:
My popularity on bluelight has decreased by 50%! Does anyone care that Ksa means "kick some ass"? LOL
 
Seriously the only reason I even comment on this so much is because it pisses me off how I know people who have adderall scripts, and they are always telling me how I'm boring and shit, and I really want to tell them to stop taking fucking adderall and see what you're like when you're not on it. It's a huge difference in how you behave and perceive things, especially for people who take it daily.
 
thecowpuncher;10676606 said:
Most of the misdiagnosed are in younger kids that parents cant control so they automatically assume that it is ADHD. When really it is lack of good parenting.

You're half right, the whole environment/diet most kids have these days breeds ADHD. But, a big part of the issue is how toxic our current chemical environment is, the whole BPA scare was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of endocrine/epigenetic disruptors issue. Gross cognitive impairment is easy enough to call ADHD in many cases...
 
as i read on the front page, i believe that my prescribed medicine at less than 10 years old ( ADHD ) helped lead me on to find better ( harder ) drugs that make me feel better. which led to my addictions and most of my problems. i know i can not prove it led to my addictions, but at 11 i was trying pot, alcohol and cigarettes. which i use everyday to this day, besides the alcohol which i used to use everyday, but slowed down alot. its almost to me, that adhd medication is a gateway drug. i might be full of shit, but these are just my own thoughts.
 
thisisabsurd;10672815 said:
I also wanted to mention, a person w/o ADHD taking amph is a dangerous situation.

define dangerous? its just amphetamines... people have been using it for decades for non-add reasons.
 
tricomb;10676629 said:
This, and it's not just the parents who are to blame, it's the teachers too, who are also not completely to blame, as they are trying to do their best on an embarrassingly low budget. Most teachers have to pay out of their own pocket and salaries the equipment to keep their classrooms running, not to mention that class size is increasing to the point where it's not uncommon, at least in CA, to have classes of 40 students (this is also WAY before highschool, like even in elementary/middleschool).

A friend of the family is a teacher and she was telling me about how horrible it is, she has kids with ADHD and also Autism, Dyslexia, Aspergers, etc. and other major learning disabilities and it is just ONE teacher trying to meet the education needs for over FORTY students. If you follow the money trail (or lack thereof) it traces back to the government, heh...

^^This

This shit needs to stop, CA is the worst for schools

HHazard20;10707277 said:
define dangerous? its just amphetamines... people have been using it for decades for non-add reasons.

It's dangerous with or without ADHD... It's AMPHETAMINES, the most powerful stimulant family of drugs that we use. It can cause neurotoxicity, paranoia, heart problems, and much more health complications. You can't say that they're just amphetamines. Sure, they're easily available and relatively mild (assuming we're not talking abotput methamphetamine) but if you had ever experienced amp psychosis youd never question whether they were dangerous or not.
 
fallout;10695413 said:
as i read on the front page, i believe that my prescribed medicine at less than 10 years old ( ADHD ) helped lead me on to find better ( harder ) drugs that make me feel better. which led to my addictions and most of my problems. i know i can not prove it led to my addictions, but at 11 i was trying pot, alcohol and cigarettes. which i use everyday to this day, besides the alcohol which i used to use everyday, but slowed down alot. its almost to me, that adhd medication is a gateway drug. i might be full of shit, but these are just my own thoughts.
Or could it be because people with ADHD are very likely to use drugs? Many people who aren't prescribed anything for their ADHD or don't even realize they have ADHD until later in life use drugs from a young age. It's often unconscious self-medicating.
 
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