Addictive nature of Benzodiazepines/Z-Drugs identified

AlsoTapered · Apr 10, 2023

neversickanymore said:
Since BUD or benzodiazepine Use Disorder happens in only .02% of people or 2 in 1000 people I would say it high time we gave up on the idea that benzodiazepines are addictive. Very likely to cause nasty physical dependence, for sure. Addictive, no way.

WHEN USED MEDICALLY - which means very small doses of specific medicines (chosen for their safety) prescribed for very limited periods of time (generally under 2 weeks). That 1 in 500 develop addition within THAT timeframe with THOSE benzos should suggest that even very small doses can lead to dependence. People using x10 the dose for years... it's not an IF dependence occurs, just how sever it is.

So it's a disingenuous statement to USE that comparison.

neversickanymore · Apr 10, 2023

AlsoTapered said:
WHEN USED MEDICALLY - which means very small doses of specific medicanes for very limited periods of time (generally under 2 weeks).

So it's a disingenuous statement to USE that comparison.

No I believe its of all people who use benzodiazepines.. its 2.1% percent misuse them and .2% have BUD. This is far less than the other additive drugs, for that reason I believe that they are not addictive and BUD is just a misdiagnoses. A misdiagnoses for a UD does not seem unlikely given some such entities determining UD's like rehab intake counselors and untrained physicians.

Also my own experience, after decades of daily prescribed use, was that once I was through the cruel 16 month withdrawal I rarely think about them and when I do its with disgust. This was also the experience of my friends as well.

AlsoTapered · Apr 10, 2023

neversickanymore said:
no I believe its of all people who use benzodiazepines.. its 2.1% percent misuse them and .2% have BUD. This is far less than the other additive drugs, for that reason I believe that they are not addictive and BUD is just a misdiagnoses. A misdiagnoses for a UD does not seem unlikely given some such entities determining UD's like rehab intake counselors and untrained physicians.

HOW does one survey people who are not using benzodiazepines medically and indeed benzodiazepines that are NEVER used medically?

Who is going to be honest when they are using an illegal drug and in a manner that is totally at odds with the dose and duration that is considered to be safe?

I have 65 references that are limited to people taking only benzodiazepines used medically... and the figures are a LOT higher. In short, anyone using them daily for over a month WILL become dependant and as they need their drug to feel 'normal' so addiction occurs.

But you evidently have a reference and so I will be pleased to read it. If you want MY references, fine:

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	*Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment vol. 8 iss. 1-2* pp.53—59** History of benzodiazepine dependence DOI: 10.1016/0740-5472(91)90027-8 a a	Lader, Malcolm		1991 January		English
	*European Psychiatry vol. 24* pp.S1229** P03-230 No NREM phase 3-4 (deep sleep) among benzodiazepine abuse patients in methadone maintenance treatment (MMT) DOI: 10.1016/S0924-9338(09)71462-2 a a	Peles, E.; Schreiber, S.; Adelson, M.		2009		French;English
	*Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment vol. 1 iss. 3* pp.163—167** Benzodiazepine dependence potential: Current studies and trends DOI: 10.1016/0740-5472(84)90019-9 a a	Smith, David E.		1984 January		English
	*The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse vol. 27 iss. 2* pp.339—347** A BENZODIAZEPINE MOOD EFFECT SCALE: RELIABILITY AND VALIDITY DETERMINED FOR ALCOHOL-DEPENDENT SUBJECTS AND ADULTS WITH A PARENTAL HISTORY OF ALCOHOLISM DOI: 10.1081/ada-100103713 a a	Ciraulo, Domenic A.; Knapp, Clifford M.; LoCastro, Joseph; Greenblatt, David J.; Shader, Richard I.		2001 January		English
	*The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse vol. 9 iss. 1* pp.19—33** Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome: A Literature Review and Evaluation DOI: 10.3109/00952998209002608 a a	Mackinnon, Glenda L.; Parker, William A.		1982 January		English
	*The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse vol. 34 iss. 5* pp.534—540** Oxcarbazepine in Rapid Benzodiazepine Detoxification DOI: 10.1080/00952990802149021 a a	Croissant, Bernhard; Grosshans, Martin; Diehl, Alexander; Mann, Karl		2008 January		English
	*Reactions Weekly vol. &NA; iss. 1015* pp.2** Increased number of ED visits associated with benzodiazepine abuse DOI: 10.2165/00128415-200410150-00002 a a			2004 August
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	*CNS Drugs vol. 5 iss. 2* pp.137—146** Benzodiazepine Abuse DOI: 10.2165/00023210-199605020-00005 a a	Dr J. Roy Robertson,Wilfrid Treasure		1996 February		English
	*Reactions Weekly vol. &NA; iss. 352* pp.4** Benzodiazepine abuse DOI: 10.2165/00128415-199103520-00012 a a			1991 May
	*Reactions Weekly vol. &NA; iss. 500* pp.2** Injected benzodiazepine abuse assessed DOI: 10.2165/00128415-199405000-00002 a a			1994 May
	*Inpharma Weekly vol. &NA; iss. 936* pp.21** Injected benzodiazepine abuse assessed DOI: 10.2165/00128413-199409360-00052 a a			1994 May
	*Emergency Medicine Australasia vol. 25 iss. 2* pp.199—200** Trends in benzodiazepine abuse: 2007-2011 DOI: 10.1111/1742-6723.12035 a a	Reynolds, Madison; Fulde, Gordian; Hendry, Trish		2013 April 07		English
	*Addictive Disorders & Their Treatment vol. 11 iss. 1* pp.26—35** Extent of Use and Concordance of Self-report and Urinalysis of Benzodiazepine Abuse DOI: 10.1097/ADT.0b013e31821f3f20 a a	Srinivas, T. R.; Jain, Raka; Tripathi, Bankat Mani; Pal, Hem Raj; Singh Balhara, Yatan Pal		2012 March		English
	*The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse vol. 36 iss. 2* pp.98—101** Hyperammoneic Encephalopathy, Valproic Acid, and Benzodiazepine Withdrawal: A Case Series DOI: 10.3109/00952991003674804 a a	Starer, Jacquelyn; Chang, Grace		2010 March 25		English
	*Advances in Alcohol & Substance Abuse vol. 9 iss. 1-2* pp.103—128** Addiction Potential of Benzodiazedpines and Non-Benzodiazepine Anxiolytics DOI: 10.1300/J251v09n01_07 a a	Roache, John D.		1990 September
	*Pharmacopsychiatry vol. 22 iss. 02* pp.54—60** Benzodiazepine Abuse and Dependence in Psychiatric Inpatients DOI: 10.1055/s-2007-1014578 a a	B. Wolf; R. Grohmann; D. Biber; P. Brenner; E. Rüther		1989 March		English
	*Pharmacopsychiatry vol. 21 iss. 02* pp.104—108** Benzodiazepine Abuse in Patients of Doctors in Domiciliary Practice in the Basle Area DOI: 10.1055/s-2007-1014658 a a	Ladewig, D.; Grossenbacher, H.		1988 March		English
	*Substance Abuse vol. 37 iss. 4* pp.516—520** The Association Between Benzodiazepine Prescription and Aberrant Drug-related Behaviors in Primary Care Patients Receiving Opioids for Chronic Pain DOI: 10.1080/08897077.2016.1179242 a a	Park, Tae Woo; Saitz, Richard; Nelson, Kerrie P.; Xuan, Ziming; Liebschutz, Jane M.; Lasser, Karen E.		2016 April 19		English
	*International Journal of the Addictions vol. 23 iss. 10* pp.1083—1090** Benzodiazepine Abuse and Management of Anxiety in the Community DOI: 10.3109/10826088809056187 a a	Ellis, Peter ;Carney, M. W. P.		1988 January
	*European Psychiatry vol. 33* pp.S295** Assessing Comorbidities and service use among patients with benzodiazepine abuse DOI: 10.1016/j.eurpsy.2016.01.1003 a a	Cook, B.; Chavez, L.; Carmona, R.; Alegria, M.		2016 Mars		French;English
	*American Journal of Psychiatry vol. 146 iss. 10* pp.1333—1335** Parental alcoholism as a risk factor in benzodiazepine abuse: a pilot study DOI: 10.1176/ajp.146.10.1333 a a

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	*Human Psychopharmacology: Clinical and Experimental vol. 26 iss. 3* pp.n/a—n/a** Benzodiazepine prescription among patients with severe mental illness and co-occurring alcohol abuse/dependence in Taiwan DOI: 10.1002/hup.1193 a a	Shih-Chi Lin; Cheng-Chung Chen; Yeng-Hung Chen; Kung-Shang Chung; Ching-Hua Lin		2011 June 13		English
	*Journal of Traumatic Stress vol. 20 iss. 5* pp.909—914** Long-term, high-dose benzodiazepine prescriptions in veteran patients with PTSD: Influence of preexisting alcoholism and drug-abuse diagnoses DOI: 10.1002/jts.20254 a a	John A. Hermos; Melissa M. Young; Elizabeth V. Lawler; David Rosenbloom; Louis D. Fiore		2007 October		English
	*Addiction vol. 98 iss. 10* pp.1371—1378** Abuse and dependence potential for the non-benzodiazepine hypnotics zolpidem and zopiclone: a review of case reports and epidemiological data DOI: 10.1046/j.1360-0443.2003.00491.x a a	G. Hajak; W. E. Müller; H. U. Wittchen; D. Pittrow; W. Kirch		2003 October		English
	*Psychopharmacology vol. 134 iss. 1* pp.1—37** Benzodiazepine self-administration in humans and laboratory animals – implications for problems of long-term use and abuse DOI: 10.1007/s002130050422 a a	Roland R. Griffiths; Elise M. Weerts		1997 November 03		English
	*Addiction vol. 78 iss. 4* pp.429—435** Objective Determination of Benzodiazepine Use and Abuse in Alcoholics DOI: 10.1111/j.1360-0443.1983.tb02531.x a a	Usoa Busto; Jan Simpkins; Edward M. Sellers; Barry Sisson; Ruth Segal		1983 December		English
	*Addiction vol. 88 iss. 2* pp.209—218** Benzodiazepine use and anxiolytic abuse and dependence in treated alcoholics DOI: 10.1111/j.1360-0443.1993.tb00804.x a a	HELEN E. ROSS		1993 February		English
	*The American Journal on Addictions vol. 9 iss. 4* pp.276—284** Benzodiazepine Treatment of Anxiety or Insomnia in Substance Abuse Patients DOI: 10.1080/105504900750047346 a a	Domenic A. Ciraulo; Edgar P. Nace		2000 October 01		English
	*Journal of Psychiatric Research vol. 27 iss. supp-S1* pp.97—110** Benzodiazepine treatment of panic and agoraphobic symptoms: Use, dependence, toxicity, abuse DOI: 10.1016/0022-3956(93)90021-s a a	Carl Salzman		1993 January		English
	*Journal of Pain and Symptom Management vol. 7 iss. 5* pp.324—326** Benzodiazepine dependence, toxicity, and abuse: A task force report of the American Psychiatric Association published by American Psychiatric Press Washington, DC 1990, 116 pages, $25.00 DOI: 10.1016/0885-3924(92)90069-t a a	Steven A. King		1992 July		English
	*Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior vol. 90 iss. 1* pp.74—89** Abuse and dependence liability of benzodiazepine-type drugs: GABAA receptor modulation and beyond DOI: 10.1016/j.pbb.2008.01.001 a a	Stephanie C. Licata; James K. Rowlett		2008 July		English
	*Drug and Alcohol Dependence vol. 92 iss. 1-3* pp.79—85** Association between improvement in depression, reduced benzodiazepine (BDZ) abuse, and increased psychotropic medication use in methadone maintenance treatment (MMT) patients DOI: 10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2007.06.016 a a	Shaul Schreiber; Einat Peles; Miriam Adelson		2008 January		English
	*Drug and Alcohol Dependence vol. 99 iss. 1-3* pp.338—344** Benzodiazepine use among opiate-dependent subjects in buprenorphine maintenance treatment: Correlates of use, abuse and dependence DOI: 10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2008.07.017 a a

*Journal of Psychiatric Research vol. 24 iss. supp-S2* pp.145—156** Benzodiazepine dependency discontinuation: Focus on the chemical dependency detoxification setting and benzodiazepine-polydrug abuse DOI: 10.1016/0022-3956(90)90046-s a a	David E. Smith; Mim J. Landry		1990 January		English
	*Zeietschrift für Gerontopsychologie & -psychiatrie vol. 12 iss. 2* pp.115—128** Benzodiazepine: Verordnung, Einnahme, Mißbrauch und Abhängigkeit im Alter: Benzodiazepines: Prescription, Use, Abuse and Dependence in the Elderly DOI: 10.1024//1011-6877.12.2.115 a a	Wolter-Henseler, Dirk K.	Hogrefe Publishing Group	1999 June
	*Contemporary Psychology vol. 37 iss. 9* pp.947—947** Benzodiazepine Use and Abuse: A Clinical Update DOI: 10.1037/032608 a a	Commissaris, Randall L.	Portico	1992 September
	PsycEXTRA Dataset Anxiety Disorders, Comorbid Substance Abuse, and Benzodiazepine Discontinuation: Implications for Treatment: (495582006-009) DOI: 10.1037/e495582006-009 dataset l	Barlow, David H. ;,	American Psychological Association (APA)	1997
	*Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology vol. 16 iss. 5* pp.363—372** Benzodiazepine Use in Chile: Impact of Availability on Use, Abuse, and Dependence DOI: 10.1097/00004714-199610000-00004 a a	Busto, Usoa E. ;Ruiz, Ines ;Busto, Miren ;Gacitua, Andres	Ovid Technologies (Wolters Kluwer Health)	1996 October		English
	*Journal of Nervous & Mental Disease vol. 188 iss. 7* pp.454—459** Benzodiazepine Use in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder among Veterans with Substance Abuse DOI: 10.1097/00005053-200007000-00010 a a	KOSTEN, THOMAS R. ;FONTANA, ALAN ;SERNYAK, MICHAEL J. ;ROSENHECK, ROBERT	Ovid Technologies (Wolters Kluwer Health)	2000 July		English
	*American Journal of Psychiatry vol. 148 iss. 9* pp.1251—a-1252** Benzodiazepine Dependence, Toxicity, and Abuse: A Task Force Report of the American Psychiatric Association DOI: 10.1176/ajp.148.9.1251-a a a	KOSHES, RONALD J.	American Psychiatric Association Publishing	1991 September		English
	*Psychiatric Bulletin vol. 13 iss. 10* pp.547—547** Benzodiazepine addiction and child sexual abuse DOI: 10.1192/pb.13.10.547 a a	Haeger, Bisa	Royal College of Psychiatrists	1989 October
	*Psychiatric Annals vol. 48 iss. 8* pp.360—365** Benzodiazepine Use and Abuse DOI: 10.3928/00485713-20180718-02 a a	Hashmi, Ali M. ;Han, Jin Y. ;French-Rosas, Lindsay ;Jabbar, Qammar ;Khan, Burhan Ahmed ;Shah, Asim A.	SLACK, Inc.	2018 August 01		English
	*Journal of Psychosocial Nursing and Mental Health Services vol. 54 iss. 4* pp.22—25** Safety and Abuse Liability of Oxazepam: Is This Benzodiazepine Drug Underutilized? DOI: 10.3928/02793695-20160322-01 a a	Howland, Robert H.	SLACK, Inc.	2016 April 01		English
	*The Journal of Clinical Psychiatry vol. 65 iss. 2* pp.151—155** Benzodiazepine Prescription Practices and Substance Abuse in Persons With Severe Mental Illness DOI: 10.4088/jcp.v65n0202 a a	Clark, Robin E. ;Xie, Haiyi ;Brunette, Mary F.	Physicians Postgraduate Press, Inc	2004 February 15		English
	*The Primary Care Companion to The Journal of Clinical Psychiatry vol. 07 iss. 05* pp.246—248** Panic Disorder, Alcohol and Substance Abuse, and Benzodiazepine Prescription DOI: 10.4088/pcc.v07n0510b a a	Sansone, Randy A. ;Griffith, Kellie A. ;Sansone, Lori A.	Physicians Postgraduate Press, Inc	2005 October 14		English
	Journal of Psychiatry vol. 19 iss. 03 The Effect of Chronic Alcohol Abuse on the Benzodiazepine Receptor System in Various Areas of the Human Brain DOI: 10.4172/2378-5756.1000365 a a	TV, Shushpanova ;NA, Bokhan	OMICS Publishing Group	2016
	*Human Psychopharmacology: Clinical and Experimental vol. 26 iss. 3* pp.n/a—n/a** Benzodiazepine prescription among patients with severe mental illness and co-occurring alcohol abuse/dependence in Taiwan DOI: 10.1002/hup.1193 a a	Shih-Chi Lin; Cheng-Chung Chen; Yeng-Hung Chen; Kung-Shang Chung; Ching-Hua Lin		2011 June 13		English
	*Journal of Traumatic Stress vol. 20 iss. 5* pp.909—914** Long-term, high-dose benzodiazepine prescriptions in veteran patients with PTSD: Influence of preexisting alcoholism and drug-abuse diagnoses DOI: 10.1002/jts.20254 a a	John A. Hermos; Melissa M. Young; Elizabeth V. Lawler; David Rosenbloom; Louis D. Fiore		2007 October		English
	*Addiction vol. 98 iss. 10* pp.1371—1378** Abuse and dependence potential for the non-benzodiazepine hypnotics zolpidem and zopiclone: a review of case reports and epidemiological data DOI: 10.1046/j.1360-0443.2003.00491.x a a	G. Hajak; W. E. Müller; H. U. Wittchen; D. Pittrow; W. Kirch		2003 October		English
	*Psychopharmacology vol. 134 iss. 1* pp.1—37** Benzodiazepine self-administration in humans and laboratory animals – implications for problems of long-term use and abuse DOI: 10.1007/s002130050422 a a	Roland R. Griffiths; Elise M. Weerts		1997 November 03		English
	*Addiction vol. 78 iss. 4* pp.429—435** Objective Determination of Benzodiazepine Use and Abuse in Alcoholics DOI: 10.1111/j.1360-0443.1983.tb02531.x a a	Usoa Busto; Jan Simpkins; Edward M. Sellers; Barry Sisson; Ruth Segal		1983 December		English
	*Addiction vol. 88 iss. 2* pp.209—218** Benzodiazepine use and anxiolytic abuse and dependence in treated alcoholics DOI: 10.1111/j.1360-0443.1993.tb00804.x a a	HELEN E. ROSS		1993 February		English
	*The American Journal on Addictions vol. 9 iss. 4* pp.276—284** Benzodiazepine Treatment of Anxiety or Insomnia in Substance Abuse Patients DOI: 10.1080/105504900750047346 a a	Domenic A. Ciraulo; Edgar P. Nace		2000 October 01		English
	*Journal of Psychiatric Research vol. 27 iss. supp-S1* pp.97—110** Benzodiazepine treatment of panic and agoraphobic symptoms: Use, dependence, toxicity, abuse DOI: 10.1016/0022-3956(93)90021-s a a	Carl Salzman		1993 January		English
	*Journal of Pain and Symptom Management vol. 7 iss. 5* pp.324—326** Benzodiazepine dependence, toxicity, and abuse: A task force report of the American Psychiatric Association published by American Psychiatric Press Washington, DC 1990, 116 pages, $25.00 DOI: 10.1016/0885-3924(92)90069-t a a	Steven A. King		1992 July		English
	*Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior vol. 90 iss. 1* pp.74—89** Abuse and dependence liability of benzodiazepine-type drugs: GABAA receptor modulation and beyond DOI: 10.1016/j.pbb.2008.01.001 a a	Stephanie C. Licata; James K. Rowlett		2008 July		English
	*Drug and Alcohol Dependence vol. 92 iss. 1-3* pp.79—85** Association between improvement in depression, reduced benzodiazepine (BDZ) abuse, and increased psychotropic medication use in methadone maintenance treatment (MMT) patients DOI: 10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2007.06.016 a a	Shaul Schreiber; Einat Peles; Miriam Adelson		2008 January		English
	*Drug and Alcohol Dependence vol. 99 iss. 1-3* pp.338—344** Benzodiazepine use among opiate-dependent subjects in buprenorphine maintenance treatment: Correlates of use, abuse and dependence DOI: 10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2008.07.017 a a

*Journal of Psychiatric Research vol. 24 iss. supp-S2* pp.145—156** Benzodiazepine dependency discontinuation: Focus on the chemical dependency detoxification setting and benzodiazepine-polydrug abuse DOI: 10.1016/0022-3956(90)90046-s a a	David E. Smith; Mim J. Landry		1990 January		English
	*Zeietschrift für Gerontopsychologie & -psychiatrie vol. 12 iss. 2* pp.115—128** Benzodiazepine: Verordnung, Einnahme, Mißbrauch und Abhängigkeit im Alter: Benzodiazepines: Prescription, Use, Abuse and Dependence in the Elderly DOI: 10.1024//1011-6877.12.2.115 a a	Wolter-Henseler, Dirk K.	Hogrefe Publishing Group	1999 June
	*Contemporary Psychology vol. 37 iss. 9* pp.947—947** Benzodiazepine Use and Abuse: A Clinical Update DOI: 10.1037/032608 a a	Commissaris, Randall L.	Portico	1992 September
	PsycEXTRA Dataset Anxiety Disorders, Comorbid Substance Abuse, and Benzodiazepine Discontinuation: Implications for Treatment: (495582006-009) DOI: 10.1037/e495582006-009 dataset l	Barlow, David H. ;,	American Psychological Association (APA)	1997
	*Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology vol. 16 iss. 5* pp.363—372** Benzodiazepine Use in Chile: Impact of Availability on Use, Abuse, and Dependence DOI: 10.1097/00004714-199610000-00004 a a	Busto, Usoa E. ;Ruiz, Ines ;Busto, Miren ;Gacitua, Andres	Ovid Technologies (Wolters Kluwer Health)	1996 October		English
	*Journal of Nervous & Mental Disease vol. 188 iss. 7* pp.454—459** Benzodiazepine Use in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder among Veterans with Substance Abuse DOI: 10.1097/00005053-200007000-00010 a a	KOSTEN, THOMAS R. ;FONTANA, ALAN ;SERNYAK, MICHAEL J. ;ROSENHECK, ROBERT	Ovid Technologies (Wolters Kluwer Health)	2000 July		English
	*American Journal of Psychiatry vol. 148 iss. 9* pp.1251—a-1252** Benzodiazepine Dependence, Toxicity, and Abuse: A Task Force Report of the American Psychiatric Association DOI: 10.1176/ajp.148.9.1251-a a a	KOSHES, RONALD J.	American Psychiatric Association Publishing	1991 September		English
	*Psychiatric Bulletin vol. 13 iss. 10* pp.547—547** Benzodiazepine addiction and child sexual abuse DOI: 10.1192/pb.13.10.547 a a	Haeger, Bisa	Royal College of Psychiatrists	1989 October
	*Psychiatric Annals vol. 48 iss. 8* pp.360—365** Benzodiazepine Use and Abuse DOI: 10.3928/00485713-20180718-02 a a	Hashmi, Ali M. ;Han, Jin Y. ;French-Rosas, Lindsay ;Jabbar, Qammar ;Khan, Burhan Ahmed ;Shah, Asim A.	SLACK, Inc.	2018 August 01		English
	*Journal of Psychosocial Nursing and Mental Health Services vol. 54 iss. 4* pp.22—25** Safety and Abuse Liability of Oxazepam: Is This Benzodiazepine Drug Underutilized? DOI: 10.3928/02793695-20160322-01 a a	Howland, Robert H.	SLACK, Inc.	2016 April 01		English
	*The Journal of Clinical Psychiatry vol. 65 iss. 2* pp.151—155** Benzodiazepine Prescription Practices and Substance Abuse in Persons With Severe Mental Illness DOI: 10.4088/jcp.v65n0202 a a	Clark, Robin E. ;Xie, Haiyi ;Brunette, Mary F.	Physicians Postgraduate Press, Inc	2004 February 15		English
	*The Primary Care Companion to The Journal of Clinical Psychiatry vol. 07 iss. 05* pp.246—248** Panic Disorder, Alcohol and Substance Abuse, and Benzodiazepine Prescription DOI: 10.4088/pcc.v07n0510b a a	Sansone, Randy A. ;Griffith, Kellie A. ;Sansone, Lori A.	Physicians Postgraduate Press, Inc	2005 October 14		English
	Journal of Psychiatry vol. 19 iss. 03 The Effect of Chronic Alcohol Abuse on the Benzodiazepine Receptor System in Various Areas of the Human Brain DOI: 10.4172/2378-5756.1000365 a a	TV, Shushpanova ;NA, Bokhan	OMICS Publishing Group	2016
	*Human Psychopharmacology: Clinical and Experimental vol. 26 iss. 3* pp.n/a—n/a** Benzodiazepine prescription among patients with severe mental illness and co-occurring alcohol abuse/dependence in Taiwan DOI: 10.1002/hup.1193 a a	Shih-Chi Lin; Cheng-Chung Chen; Yeng-Hung Chen; Kung-Shang Chung; Ching-Hua Lin		2011 June 13		English
	*Journal of Traumatic Stress vol. 20 iss. 5* pp.909—914** Long-term, high-dose benzodiazepine prescriptions in veteran patients with PTSD: Influence of preexisting alcoholism and drug-abuse diagnoses DOI: 10.1002/jts.20254 a a	John A. Hermos; Melissa M. Young; Elizabeth V. Lawler; David Rosenbloom; Louis D. Fiore		2007 October		English
	*Addiction vol. 98 iss. 10* pp.1371—1378** Abuse and dependence potential for the non-benzodiazepine hypnotics zolpidem and zopiclone: a review of case reports and epidemiological data DOI: 10.1046/j.1360-0443.2003.00491.x a a	G. Hajak; W. E. Müller; H. U. Wittchen; D. Pittrow; W. Kirch		2003 October		English
	*Psychopharmacology vol. 134 iss. 1* pp.1—37** Benzodiazepine self-administration in humans and laboratory animals – implications for problems of long-term use and abuse DOI: 10.1007/s002130050422 a a	Roland R. Griffiths; Elise M. Weerts		1997 November 03		English
	*Addiction vol. 78 iss. 4* pp.429—435** Objective Determination of Benzodiazepine Use and Abuse in Alcoholics DOI: 10.1111/j.1360-0443.1983.tb02531.x a a	Usoa Busto; Jan Simpkins; Edward M. Sellers; Barry Sisson; Ruth Segal		1983 December		English
	*Addiction vol. 88 iss. 2* pp.209—218** Benzodiazepine use and anxiolytic abuse and dependence in treated alcoholics DOI: 10.1111/j.1360-0443.1993.tb00804.x a a	HELEN E. ROSS		1993 February		English
	*The American Journal on Addictions vol. 9 iss. 4* pp.276—284** Benzodiazepine Treatment of Anxiety or Insomnia in Substance Abuse Patients DOI: 10.1080/105504900750047346 a a	Domenic A. Ciraulo; Edgar P. Nace		2000 October 01		English
	*Journal of Psychiatric Research vol. 27 iss. supp-S1* pp.97—110** Benzodiazepine treatment of panic and agoraphobic symptoms: Use, dependence, toxicity, abuse DOI: 10.1016/0022-3956(93)90021-s a a	Carl Salzman		1993 January		English
	*Journal of Pain and Symptom Management vol. 7 iss. 5* pp.324—326** Benzodiazepine dependence, toxicity, and abuse: A task force report of the American Psychiatric Association published by American Psychiatric Press Washington, DC 1990, 116 pages, $25.00 DOI: 10.1016/0885-3924(92)90069-t a a	Steven A. King		1992 July		English
	*Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior vol. 90 iss. 1* pp.74—89** Abuse and dependence liability of benzodiazepine-type drugs: GABAA receptor modulation and beyond DOI: 10.1016/j.pbb.2008.01.001 a a	Stephanie C. Licata; James K. Rowlett		2008 July		English
	*Drug and Alcohol Dependence vol. 92 iss. 1-3* pp.79—85** Association between improvement in depression, reduced benzodiazepine (BDZ) abuse, and increased psychotropic medication use in methadone maintenance treatment (MMT) patients DOI: 10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2007.06.016 a a	Shaul Schreiber; Einat Peles; Miriam Adelson		2008 January		English
	*Drug and Alcohol Dependence vol. 99 iss. 1-3* pp.338—344** Benzodiazepine use among opiate-dependent subjects in buprenorphine maintenance treatment: Correlates of use, abuse and dependence DOI: 10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2008.07.017 a a

*The Journal of Pain vol. 20 iss. 4* pp.473—480** Influence of Abuse History on Concurrent Benzodiazepine and Opioid Use in Chronic Pain Patients DOI: 10.1016/j.jpain.2018.10.009 a a	Pierce, Jennifer; Moser, Stephanie; Hassett, Afton L.; Brummett, Chad M.; Christianson, Julie A.; Goesling, Jenna		2019 April		English
	*Frontiers in Psychiatry vol. 11* pp.00755** The Effects of Benzodiazepine Use and Abuse on Cognition in the Elders: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Comparative Studies DOI: 10.3389/fpsyt.2020.00755 a a

I know some of the titles might not seem to address to specific issue in isolation, but they ALLcontain data on the misuse of benzodiazepines in a range of circumstances and show how easily normal, healthy people who had not been dependent on ANY other medicine were put in the position of developing dependence.

I've cut it down to 62 because I feel more would just be overfacing.

If you take the SMILES of nitrazolam & flunitrazolam and place them PubChem you will also find about 34 articles detailing the issues with those specific compounds. They never made it to market BECASUE they had issues. So your figure would appear to be wildly our and that's ONLY for benzodiazepines used medically. The high-potency analogues were generally dropped BECAUSE animal models demonstrated self-administration to a crazy level...

But please, I really would like to see your reference. I've done my homework, I presume you have as well, but if I can benefit from something I missed, I'm happy to revise my position.

BTW check if any of the authors have conflicts of interest. I threw out the 34 that did.

neversickanymore · Apr 10, 2023

To begin with id suggest cutting out most things over 20 years old, hell why not ten. I would then cut out co use with accepted addictive substances.

neversickanymore · Apr 10, 2023

Research suggests benzodiazepine use is high while use disorder rates are low | National Institute on Drug Abuse

A recent analysis suggests that benzodiazepine use disorders are relatively rare among the adults who use benzodiazepine medications, even if they are misusing them.

nida.nih.gov

AlsoTapered · Apr 10, 2023

You reference is to ACUTE toxicity. A survey from an ER room hardly covers the massive problem of dependency we face.

But I've provided reference to those dependence issues. It's when people dependent users run out of benzos that we see ER visits... and from the questions, it seems like nobody was looking for that much more significant issue.

Deaths are rare from those benzos used in medicine - especially those now prescribed in the US. But even nitrazepam and flunitrazepam have been shown to be very toxic. I did post a link to a large Swedish study in which 78% of fatal overdoses (accidental or intentional) were of just those 2 compounds.

I DID make it clear that it's the lack of benzos that will reveal the extent of the problem/

But I have provided the LEAST reference I feel I can provide for you to understand why I hold a particular view. Many of them have titles suggesting some specific circumstance, but THEY also contain useful data & reference papers themselves. I am more than happy to provide you with any paper you should need.

neversickanymore · Apr 10, 2023

You reference is to ACUTE toxicity. A survey from an ER room hardly covers the massive problem of dependency we face.

How do you figure?

Methods: Data from 102,000 adults 18 years and older who participated in the 2015-2016 National Surveys on Drug Use and Health were used. IMS Health Total Patient Tracker data were also examined

You do have "dependency" correct.

@AlsoTapered

AlsoTapered · Apr 10, 2023

neversickanymore said:
How do you figure?

You do have "dependency" correct.

@AlsoTapered

Because if you check the SINGLE reference the article provides - you will see how data was collected.

I'm keen to see what you make of the 62 references I provided. As I said, I excluded those which had a conflict of interest and I have to say, the single reference most certainly does have a conflict of interest.

FYI by reference - I mean an article published in a scientific journal that has undergone peer-review.

With no authors, it's impossible to know so I excluded such works. I'm not saying it's wrong, but 1 reference? I believe the average paper has 34 references. Not because we may distrust a single source but because each paper covers narrowly defined limits. That is normal. That's why you need a LOT to really piece together the facts.

neversickanymore · Apr 10, 2023

AlsoTapered said:
Because if you check the SINGLE reference the article provides - you will see how data was collected.

I'm keen to see what you make of the 62 references I provided. As I said, I excluded those which had a conflict of interest and I have to say, the single reference most certainly does have a conflict of interest.

FYI by reference - I mean an article published in a scientific journal that has undergone peer-review.

With no authors, it's impossible to know so I excluded such works. I'm not saying it's wrong, but 1 reference? I believe the average paper has 34 references. Not because we may distrust a single source but because each paper covers narrowly defined limits. That is normal. That's why you need a LOT to really piece together the facts.

This is the study it quotes?

Prevalence and Correlates of Benzodiazepine Use, Misuse, and Use Disorders Among Adults in the United States

Article AbstractObjective: Although benzodiazepine misuse and use disorders are associated with adverse health effects, it is unknown what proportion of benzodiazepine users misuse them or meet criteria for benzodiazepine use disorders. The goal of this study was to examine the prevalence and...

www.psychiatrist.com

AlsoTapered · Apr 10, 2023

The paper is based on a single reference which is at the bottom of the article.

If I could just cut & paste, I would.

neversickanymore · Apr 10, 2023

Which is the one I posted

AlsoTapered · Apr 10, 2023

No - it's an article BASED on a single paper.

I did go to the trouble of finding 62 other relevent papers which you only have to click on. I've excluded those with conflict of interest and tried to do my best to make it easy for you to get the best information. But I see no sign of those having been read. Do I presume you agree with them all? I mean, I hope not, but just ignoring someone else's evidence because 1 article happens to agree with your existing view isn't science.

I've made the effort to check everything.

I'm sure others will be able to read them and decide.

neversickanymore · Apr 10, 2023

I'm going to go golf.. well practice golf and enjoy the beautiful weather. I promise to take a look this evening.

AlsoTapered · Apr 10, 2023

It IS a lot to read. But I promise I did my best to cut down anything I felt was unsound.

MeDieViL · Apr 12, 2023

Hey guys,

I know from experience that etizolam just after taking it for one day when on clonazepam completely withdraws me from my benzo addiction, i think it happened twice, i remember a study showing that its withdrawals symptions are easier then benzos.

Im building a memantine mythylogy where people would be able to take all sorts off drugs of abuse without any negative consequences, im not sure how nmda antagonists or ultra loa=w dose flumazenil could help prevent withdrawal symptions.

Cycling to phenibut or GBL could also work to prevent withdrawal or dependency symptions, baclofen i dont think from experience to substitude for gaba a agonists.
Muscinol a gaba and gabab agonist could also work,

AlsoTapered · Apr 12, 2023

MeDieViL said:
Im building a memantine mythylogy where people would be able to take all sorts off drugs of abuse without any negative consequences, im not sure how nmda

So you are admitting that it doesn't work and that it's just a lie to convince people that they need not worry about benzo addiction?

Saying 'well it worked for me' is absolutely NOT scientific. It's inferring that because YOU were OK, it automatically applies to others.

Well I admire your honesty.

neversickanymore · Apr 12, 2023

I think it really important to use the correct terminology benzo dependence and if it actually exists benzo use disorder.

AlsoTapered · Apr 12, 2023

neversickanymore said:
I think it really important to use the correct terminology benzo dependence and if it actually exists benzo use disorder.

I use the term most people will understand. If one's 'use disorder' is taking many times the prescribed dose, that one is obtaining benzos from sources other than one's doctor and KEY, one cannot manage WITHOUT benzos pretty much defined addiction.

Using terminology to understate the problem isn't helping anyone.

neversickanymore · Apr 12, 2023

It doesn’t

SpiralusSancti · Apr 14, 2023

neversickanymore said:
No I believe its of all people who use benzodiazepines.. its 2.1% percent misuse them and .2% have BUD. This is far less than the other additive drugs, for that reason I believe that they are not addictive and BUD is just a misdiagnoses.

I’m quite sure this data points to something a lot of people tend to ignore about gabaerics in general. That most people don’t get WDs from normal doses. Almost none in a group of those who had used them within frametime of what’s generally considered safe. Use otherwise and your fucked.

Take GHB, it’s safe as it gets. It’s reasonably safe for long term use but if used more than once daily, you are FUCKED.

Same is with booze. You can drink a few drinks per day without problems. And idea that drinking up to litre of wine a day is bad and indicates person is alcoholic in that case is NEW. Some will say, fuck it, we had nations of alcohloics before. But no, people would run out of wine or for whatever reason just stopped and would not drink for months. Start drinking litres of wine a day and you are FUCKED. Start drinking a litre of spirit and your really fucked.

With any gabaerics story is about the same. You wont get or start with in your face addiction and in fact feel like you could get buy even with inmoderate use, but it ain’t like that at all.

I used to learn that alcohol causes addiction after about 6 months of daily use at level above low - moderate use. And that’s about right. You can use benzos for 6 months at low – moderate use and stop without problems (some are brainwashed to not believe that and stay on benzos until they are fucked). But with benzos you can get to I’m FUCKED levels in 6 months no problem. Cuz you can get from 6mg of diazepam on first day to 300mg per day if you continue to chase the high, that’s what makes it so dangerous. Hardly any alcoholics comes to 50 - 100x dose of his first day with booze even during hole lifetime and anyone who would during only 6 months would die than.

Addictive nature of Benzodiazepines/Z-Drugs identified

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