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Addiction - Is our freedom really taken away from us?

Legerity

Legerity

Bluelight Crew
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Jul 29, 2010
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I've been thinking a lot about addiction lately, and reflecting on my own experiences. First of all, I think drug abuse/dependence are more appropriate terms to use, as they are actually defined in the DSM, whereas "addiction" is an ambiguous term that is is often used to describe many different behaviours. I don't particularly care for the DSM, but I think it's good to have an actual definition of the words we use.

I truly think that we have a choice - every time we smoke a joint, do a line, pop a pill, we are exerting our freedom of choice. Sometimes it feels like there is no other choice because the comedown is so bad or the emotional pain we are experiencing is too intense. But I do believe that we can always make a different choice - turn down the joint, line, pill.

Could it be that that when we run into problems with substances, we are making the choice to continue because they are fulfilling a need that is so important to us (whatever that need may be), that we are willing to accept all the negative aspects of our choice? I don't think this is necessary conscious, but somewhere in our mind there is the knowledge of what the drug is giving us, and what it is taking away. So even if consciously, the negatives clearly seem to outweigh the benefits, perhaps the need that that drug is filling is so important to us that we are willing to accept all the shit that comes with it.

I've come to have issues with both the disease model of "addiction", or any notion of "addiction" as some mysterious malevolent force. If something feels good - it seems natural to want to extend or repeat the experience. Seeing as how cultures have always altered their consciousness using various methods, many successfully creating rituals, why is it now that we have decided there is something inherently wrong with people who chose to alter their consciousness?

The fact that we have control over substances is reflected in every single person that makes the decision to stop. What makes people decide to stop at a particular point? I'm not sure, I don't think we have to "hit rock bottom", but we need perhaps a moment of clarity. If we are able to make this decision at a certain point, do we not have the ability to make it at any other point in time?

I do not mean at all to minimize or deny the very real consequences of drug use. I've had my own issues because of it, and many others here are also going through difficulties. But I strongly believe that we need to have an empowering attitude rather than one of hopelessness.

The current "recovery industry", which tends to be based on 12-step programs, has a horribly low success rate, and is not based on science. In fact, several studies clearly disprove some of AA's major ideas. I don't have the sources off the top of my head but will gladly find them if anybody wants to read them.

I'd be interesting in hearing other people's view on "addiction", as you define it. Is it a disease? A behaviour? Instincts gone wild?

Drug use is obviously an issue that touches all of us on these boards. I think we need to have an realistic understanding of what is going on, excluding outdated mythical views of addiction, if we want to make choices that are in our best interest.

Thoughts?
 
Absolutely agree.
Call addiction a "disease" all you want I think its the same scarcity thinking that winds up becoming a self fullfilled prophecy for the majority of addicts. Buying into a lot of addiction models is the same as "learned helplessness".
Blame your problems on some mysterious disease and not yourself.

I do think addiction is a complicated problem with many different factors involved, but I definitely don't think it is what all these nonaddicted labcoat wearing geeks say it is.

Addiction imo is simply a habit that gets out of control. Same exact way fat people will eat themselves to their grave. Food alters our neurotransmitters doesn't it? So how is eating too much not a disease? Even in the respect that drugs alter them more strongly, its still not a disease. A disease is something you catch, not something you voluntarily bring into your life through bad decisions.

I think if society taught people to blame themselves more, and addiction less, the world would be better off in general. It took me a long time of accepting responsibility for my decisions before I started to notice that my "addiction" was losing a lot of its grip on me. I think those models and NA more or less make the process more bearable for people ("its NOT me I have a disease!!! yayy!!") but ultimately kick most people in the ass in later years.

Just my opinion.
 
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Irresistible impulse. I think it is very real but I don't want to give it extra power. If I say to the dog I sit "Is that a rabbit?" several times she is not going to be able to not go outside and make a few trips around the yard. Humans do experience irresistible impulse. We have a much better chance of recognize that we are being triggered and engaging in tactics to stop it.

I think most people who avoid triggers and quit have gotten to the point where they can picture the consequences of their doc as vividly as they can picture the pleasure. I say that as an active user who in some way is not succeeding in this regard. A lot of early recovery is likely strengthened by avoiding the near occasion of one's doc. Recovery that lasts a long time and is relatively secure in most environments has to be based on having more disgust for the doc than good feelings.

A clean person might have more applicable ideas. I think most addiction has many underlying issues as well. Even if someone somehow didn't have any other issues when they started there ends up being quite a few after using to excess for a while.
 
Yeh but you're trying to draw a conclusion between a dog and a human. A dog will also eat its own shit, well at least mine does. What instinct is making it do that? I was told in the wild a dog WILL eat its own shit to survive because it STILL has calories in it. Sounds like its survival instinct. Would a human know to do that? You definitely don't see it in movies.

An irresistable impulse could also be sex. And humans can even control that when they want. So I see more arguement to control an addiction. If you can control an addiction you can lower your dose and stop whenever you want. *Hypothetically lol. Or maybe it takes time to learn another irresistable impulse, like stopping.
 
^I get what your saying, but:

Humans still have more primitive brain parts. Resisting irresistible impulse has to do with developing brain functions likely not available to a dog. A kindling effect or build up towards a point of inevitable action still happens with humans. Our more relevant ability isn't to resist irresistible impulse when its full blown imo. Our stronger ability is more in stopping desire from becoming full blown than in resisting a full blown compulsion.
 
I believe it can most certainly be a disease. People who find them in helpless situations. Those who have fucked their natural chemical balance... for example meth heads who experience dopamine down regulation, destruction, reduction of dopamine receptor sites... resulting in the inability to function for significant periods of time when abstaining. Although i agree that we need an attitude of empowerment... however the notion that it simply comes down to choice i think is incorrect. From methamphetamine to food addiction... science has validated the notion that SOME people are genuinely at the mercy of uncontrollable urges as a result of dysfunction in the pleasure centers of the brain.
 
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manic88 said:
I believe it can most certainly be a disease. People who find them in helpless situations. Those who have fucked their natural chemical balance... for example meth heads who experience dopamine down regulation, destruction, reduction of dopamine receptor sites... resulting in the inability to function for significant periods of time when abstaining.
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The disease model is a model. It is sometimes a useful model. I agree with the folks who feel it is an over used model. A problem as complex as addiction warrants using more than one model imo. Even if the disease model were the best model, investigating and trying other models could only lead to a better understanding. Addiction as a character issue or a will power issue or a psycho-dynamic issue and many other perspectives are all relatively valid and useful imo.
 
@Bonjanges69: Right on. It takes away our individual responsibility to act responsibly and take care of ourselves. Does a person have the right to get as fucked up as they want? If it isn't directly hurting other people, then I say fine. But the person doesn't have a disease that is forcing them to do so - they are making a choice, whether it is a good one or not.

@Enki: Interesting view as always. Once the impulse grows, it can definitely feel overpowering. I think it takes a lot of self-awareness to be able to prevent it before it reaches that point. As I mentioned, this morning I used speed to stay awake during my shift because I lacked sleep. Upon returning home, the anxiety/comedown was so unpleasant that I re-dosed, and will most like re-dose one more time until it's gone. The unpleasantness of how I was feeling was more immediate and so I chose to suffer tomorrow, perhaps moreso, rather than suffer today. But ultimately it was still a choice. If I knew with 100% certainty that if I took more, it would kill me, I'm quite certain I could have chosen differently. But given the circumstances, the choice went in the other direction.

When I was clean in AA/NA, there was a definite need to focus on the negative aspects of past drug use. I think the problem was that it was inaccurate, I was taught that "my worst day sober was better than my best day of using", and to fear my disease. I was clean for 6 straight years, and the last year I had an unshakable fear of relapse, I was scared that the disease was just going to take over and make me drink or get high. And of course everybody was telling me I just had to do more meetings..

@manic88: I'm very skeptical of any purely biochemical explanations of addiction. There are so many other social factors involved, such as socioeconomic status and peer drug use. Neuroscientists have a very narrow focus in their research. And I say this as somebody who works in neuroscience research and was involved in a study on addiction, so I do have some respect for the field :)
 
Addiction can be developed for different reasons. Sure, it can be a way of blocking out thoughts/emotions that are too painful to address head on. Other times, it is a subconscious, self-destructive habit of punishing one's self, for reasons that they may or may not be aware of. And also, a lot of people just need to satisfying impulsive urges. All of that can often pave the road to addiction. The same way that someone suffering from tourette's needs to unleash a certain kind of energy with nervous ticks. Or when some dude has a boner, he's gotta fuck somebody or whack off to get rid of it.

Addiction has a healthy and beneficial solution. It just feels shitty at first. But after a few days of pursuing it, you'll know you've made the right choice. And I say this in total hypocrisy. I know I'd be better off not drinking all day, but when I'm picking up booze, it's almost as if I am not thinking at all.
 
Our freedom?

Not really... Addiction is what you make of it, if you don't mind being dependent on a substance and enjoying the act of using it. It's all still personal choice, taking it or not taking it.
 
First off, an "irresistible impulse," by definition, cannot be controlled. Using that term is confusing things.

Secondly, I agree with Enki that, while the Disease Model is overused, often to the point of excluding any other theory of treatment, it does have some validity to it, and that is a fairly recent concession on my part.

And yes, an addict abdicates his Freedom, his autonomy, at least until he wrests that autonomy back in a sort of self-revolution. Freedom or Liberty, as we use the words today, go back to an ancient Indian notion, swaraj, which literally means something like "self-rule."

Just as it is a complex, lengthy, and involved process to forge a successful revolution (in a political sense), so is conquering an addiction.

But it can be done. People all over the world do it every day.

You just have to believe in the cause enough, and have the self-discipline to self-evaluate, plan, and (this is the really hard part) put the plan into action.

This is very hard because, to continue the "revolution" analogy, the rebels and the loyalists both exist within the addict. It is a civil war, for all practical purposes.
 
@blahman8000: The solution that you refer to, is this abstinence, or fixing the underlying problem? The way I see it, drug abuse/dependence reflects something about the person. If a person is able to remove the causes of dependence, then I think the substance could potentially be used without dependence. So the relationship to the substance changes. I'm not saying this is the best choice for everybody, but I don't see why it often dismissed as a valid option.

@rakketakke: Personally, the idea of being dependent on a substance is nothing something that I want. Which is why I always ramble about attempting to achieve some sort of balance. But yes perhaps for some the idea of being dependent is not something that bothers them, as long as they are able to experience the effects of the substance.

@junctionalfunkie: If a person is the one that decides to surrender his own freedom, then is it really even lost, if he is the one that is deciding to let a substance take over? If a person can give or take his freedom at will, then doesn't he really always have it? I think this is relevant because it seems to me that believing in powerlessness takes away the very "power" that can be used to overcome a dependence.
 
Yes, the freedom is really lost, even if surrendered by the addict's own volition. At least for the moment.

Think of it this way, if you voluntarily surrender your gold, either through charity or being robbed, etc. (in a robbery, you <theoretically, hopefully> are voluntarily surrendering your gold in exchange for your life). Either way, the gold is just as gone as if someone had surreptitiously stolen it from your house in the night, as you peacefully slumbered away..... :)

Ooh, and here comes that great moment when I learn something from my own metaphor.... Eureka!

The gold/freedom is just as absent, but in the case of voluntarily surrendering it, as opposed to having it absconded with by some anonymous scoundrel, in the first case, you stand a much better chance of getting it back, by force if necessary, BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHERE IT IS OR AT LEAST WHO TOOK IT.

OK, maybe this analogy isn't perfect, but it's late and I'm tired.

Did you know the Dutch use the same word for "addiction" and "enslavement?"
 
junctionalfunkie said:
Yes, the freedom is really lost, even if surrendered by the addict's own volition. At least for the moment.

Think of it this way, if you voluntarily surrender your gold, either through charity or being robbed, etc. (in a robbery, you <theoretically, hopefully> are voluntarily surrendering your gold in exchange for your life). Either way, the gold is just as gone as if someone had surreptitiously stolen it from your house in the night, as you peacefully slumbered away..... :)

Ooh, and here comes that great moment when I learn something from my own metaphor.... Eureka!

The gold/freedom is just as absent, but in the case of voluntarily surrendering it, as opposed to having it absconded with by some anonymous scoundrel, in the first case, you stand a much better chance of getting it back, by force if necessary, BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHERE IT IS OR AT LEAST WHO TOOK IT.

OK, maybe this analogy isn't perfect, but it's late and I'm tired.

Did you know the Dutch use the same word for "addiction" and "enslavement?"
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No, I didn't know that, there are few random interesting facts that I know of, I'm bad with wordly knowledge

So what is it that makes it difficult for somebody to reclaim the freedom? I suppose what I would say it that it's the lack of knowledge that the person is the one who decided to give it up in the first place, that prevents it from being taken back. I don't think this is what you're saying?
 
I'm not asserting anything in particular. Freedom is (or should be) valuable. Valuable things are generally difficult to procure, retain, and reclaim.

What makes it so difficult to kick an addiction varies from person to person; it can be a complex combination of factors within the same person; and it can take different forms at different times within the same person.

Lack of knowledge, unwillingness to admit to addiction, loss of strength due not only to physical factors, but to the shame and self loathing that, IME, invariably accompany any addiction and the necessity, IMO, to transcend those negative emotions in order to ever get better.
 
junctionalfunkie said:
I'm not asserting anything in particular. Freedom is (or should be) valuable. Valuable things are generally difficult to procure, retain, and reclaim.

What makes it so difficult to kick an addiction varies from person to person; it can be a complex combination of factors within the same person; and it can take different forms at different times within the same person.

Lack of knowledge, unwillingness to admit to addiction, loss of strength due not only to physical factors, but to the shame and self loathing that, IME, invariably accompany any addiction and the necessity, IMO, to transcend those negative emotions in order to ever get better.
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That's a really good point, I'm oversimplifying things by focusing on one particular factor. If addiction is an experience that varies from person to person, or even one person over time, then it seems that having one strict definition of it is not really helpful. And so having a one-size-fits-all solution is also not helpful, even though it may help certain people who by chance happen to be part of the group that does well with that particular solution. For somebody that is helped for a particular approach (for example AA), it would make sense for them to want to recommend it to others, because they genuinely feel that it is the answer. This is how I felt when I was in AA.

I would think then that the most successful treatment would be one that is tailored to an individual. Do you know of any addiction treatment programs that really do this? From what I've seen, it is lacking. Of course there is psychotherapy that is really for the individual, but I have the impression that most therapists are pretty ignorant about drug dependence, at least the ones that I have seen. I think that such an individualized approach needs to somehow become part of the mainstream options for people that want to get clean. I'm not sure what exactly I think it should look like, but somebody else can figure that out ;)
 
Legerity, your post is interesting you strike me as a pretty intelligent individual that's articulate and analytical about life and things in general.

I started what turned out to be a 5 yr run as a hardcore AA 15 yrs ago. They actually have thousands and thousands of rooms full of addicts and alkies supporting each other and many with long term sobriety. It's true, that most substance abusers don't stay clean/sober. From what I've seen and studied, they really do have the highest success rate. Not because they're the best but because they address the problem directly. It's not a drug or alcohol problem you have. That's only a symptom. Deep down you're one fucked up individual and they're trying to get to core of that. A"spiritual malady"

I use to drive myself crazy trying to debate all these details on what is true and what isn't. Believe me, it's a complete waste of time. Even if you had all the answers, what are you going to do with all that information? write a book? lol..seriously, I learned the hard way that it really doesn't matter if it's "a disease" or not...if you got it then you got it...whatever the hell it is.

Drug addicts/abusers are messed up ppl and no matter what they do, in the end they always find a way to fuck it all up. Does that in any way remotely sound like you? It sure sounds like me that's for damn sure! I'm not saying I don't have any successes or that you don't. I'm saying no matter what you do in life, it's never enough. Even being happy, you're happy for the time being until you get bored with life AGAIN and turn to that trusted "freind" who will always be there for you when you need him (for me his name is "Meth")

Yeah, if you have sources that disprove AA then I'd like to see them. Because for years I have heard that but I haven't seen anything solid or verifiable. It reminds me of those doctors who claim that "Lindsay Lohan isn't an addict" and yet you see all the bullshit havoc she's creating ALL DRUG RELATED...gee I wonder if there's a correlation here..maybe those AA/NA's are wrong about what they think! Nobody wants to hear their message however kindly they may put it, until they're tired of fighting ppl or analyzing things to death.

It's real simple, if you don't agree with them and have your own beliefs then why not just forget about it and go about your business? If your way is ok and working well for you then why question it in a forum? Obviously it's weighing on your mind to some degree. If you choose to continue to use then just be careful and take your precautions as needed. If you choose to look for a way for help in stopping then there's nothing wrong with praying for the right avenue to help you. I'm sure a intelligent guy like you can find a way, serious.

On your last comment above, I can pretty much gaurantee you that you will never find the perfect program and even if you did, how long would be until you get tired of it, or find fault in it and leave? I'm not saying this because I know you, I'm saying this because it's typical in most addicts. We get bored easily or find fault in just about everything even though we don't always show it. In AA or NA you listen to others and follow their instructions even if you don't like it or think it makes any sense. I know I use to hate some of the stupid shit they'd ask me to do, but when I stopped resisting and stopped trying to analyze everything then my life started to change for the better. It was humility and I didn't even know it.

Why I'm back here doing my old stuff again is not really something I want to get into right now. I'm enjoying the moment now, and IF if survive this fucked up rollercoaster jungle ride then I'll probably head back over there cuz when I worked it, it worked for me. Good luck brother from Canada and stay strong. :)
 
i really didnt read all the above stuff but we r not free anyway so why not get addicted to drugs as well. theres no such thing as freedom. we aint free so fuck it all.
 
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