ld50 vs ssri
Bluelighter
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Here read this mate, it would appear I was quite wrong in some respects with my last post according to this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease
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Addiction is a disease: true or false
- Thread starter Monkeygrrrl
- Start date
Here read this mate, it would appear I was quite wrong in some respects with my last post according to this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease
baggerr
Bluelighter
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Disease is something that attacks the body. No one is an addict unless they chose to do said drug and then cant stop/quit.When you stop, you're no longer addicted. If people could just quit a disease, there wouldnt be any diseases or you would quit it as soon as you got it.
I dont know of any diseases that are pleasurable, but I know of several drugs that are
Not having the strength and will power to quit does not = disease. But being an addict can sometimes get you a disease from the poor choices.
If it was a disease we would go to a doctor for treatment, meds, procedures, surgeries, chemo, radiation etc that treats the disease. Instead addicts go to AA, rehabs etc.
If I could walked into an anon meeting a few times or more and have the cancer thats a disease stopped, I would, unfortunately it doesnt work like that
I dont know of any diseases that are pleasurable, but I know of several drugs that are
Not having the strength and will power to quit does not = disease. But being an addict can sometimes get you a disease from the poor choices.
If it was a disease we would go to a doctor for treatment, meds, procedures, surgeries, chemo, radiation etc that treats the disease. Instead addicts go to AA, rehabs etc.
If I could walked into an anon meeting a few times or more and have the cancer thats a disease stopped, I would, unfortunately it doesnt work like that
GodandLove
Bluelighter
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Schizophrenia doesn't attack the body, Bipolar disorder doesn't attack the body, HELL diabetes doesn't even attack the body. So these aren't diseases? Hmmmmm You should immediately inform AMA of your VERY IMPORTANT DISCOVERY!
Get this ladies and gentleman, if it doesn't attack your body, it's a not a disease.
How'd you get so smart?
No
By the way Drug addiction most definitely attacks the body, in more ways than one.
This statement right here proves you have no idea what you're talking about, and you have no idea even what addiction is.
Just go home.
Grown ups are talking.
You aint ready to play in the Big Leagues.
Yeah because everyone who's ever been a drug addict on planet earth has had a choice.8)
http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/prostitutes-forced-drug-addiction
Ever here of ORT(Opioid replacement therapy) or MAT(Medication-Assisted Treatment)?
http://dpt.samhsa.gov/
ORT has nearly 50 years of research to back it up and it is scientifically proven to be the best and most effective treatment for this disease, when it's in the form of opiate addiction.
baggerr
Bluelighter
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A disease is a pathogen or pathogens create a disease, so, show me the pathogen that causes Addiction.
Just because you can answer a few vague questions that several different things could fit into does not make it a disease.
If addiction is a disease, why is it not in any list of diseases like all the other diseases? Especially since you say its a FULL BLOWN disease. You would also be able to test for the disease like you test for STDs, you know sexually transmitted DISEASES. If I have addiction disease do I need to notify my sexual partners? Because they might get it it!
Is it a contagious disease transmissible trough blood or air? Yes "Transmission of pathogens occurs through many different routes, including airborne, direct or indirect contact, sexual contact, through blood, breast milk, or other body fluids, and through the fecal-oral route."
By definition you can "catch" addiction like you catch the measles, thats just fucking STUPID! Addiction is not contagious.
Are some people more susceptible to this disease than others? NO! BUT some people are more susceptible to not being able to stop/quit once they become addicted.
Do GENETICS play a HUGE role in WHO gets this DISEASE? YES, but addiction is not a disease. You do not "get" addiction like you "get" the flu.
The drug the addict is taking itself is the major contributor to the addiction by altering the brain causing a desire for more and or a need to avoid a comedown resulting in constant repeated use as examples.
If you never take the drug, you will never be addicted to it or have a desire for it. Those 2 things only happen AFTER you have taken said drug.
Also each drug effects the body differently in different parts of the body, from the different chemicals in each drug. Disease is caused by a specific thing that creates a specific disease such as measles, chicken pox that require a specific remedy unique to each disease. Addiction can be fixed with rehab
Since each drug has a specific thing that effects you, like THC in pot, Amphetamines in meth etc they would create separate diseases, such as weed disease, meth disease, coke disease. Not the addiction disease. There are no diseases that have several in one disease.
Addiction is a blanket term for many types of addiction, drugs, porn, sex, gambling, shopping. If addiction were a disease they would have vaccines like we do for most of the disease we have today or treat it with medical procedures like they do for every other disease.
When you take the drug of choice, it affects the brain, which affects your behavior, which affects your choices which results in side effects from said drug to cause you to become addicted to it. There is NO disease that "makes" you take or try a drug for the first time. You choose that of your own free will, curiosity or peer pressure. Porn and gambling are not a drug and has no mind altering chemicals but people become addicted to it because it effects the same pleasure centers of the brain that drugs do.
Addiction is caused by your choice to do something that results in an overwhelming desire for more.
GodandLove
Bluelighter
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I'm not even.....
See above.
Please go get a basic education before you decide to make another post.
GodandLove
Bluelighter
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I think I know what the problem is. It mainly has to do with people's ignorance, interpretation and perception of the word "disease". When people here the word disease, they immediately think of worst case scenario diseases like Ebola or The bubonic plague. In their minds, in order for an illness to qualify as a "disease" it has to be extremely life threatening to the point where once you get it you're dead in a matter of days, extremely contagious, and last but not least well known and established as a "dangerous evil monster disease that will kill your children and everyone you love".
The ironic thing is, It's not that I'm over exaggerating what drug addiction is, by calling it a disease, in fact, the problem is, you're over exaggerating what the word disease is by projecting pre conceived notions onto it, ergo giving the word "disease" pedestal status.
For example, take the common cold for instance, most people don't even know it's a disease, let alone treat it like it's one. It's death rate is so low, it's not even worth mentioning. When people get the cold, they don't panic and say OH MY GOD I have a terrible DISEASE! HELP ME GOD! I HAVE A DISEASE! No, they take dayquil, eat some chicken noodle soup and drink some 7 up and continue about their day like nothing ever happened.
Now take drug addiction, it is a million times worse than the worst flu or cold you've ever gotten in your life. With a death rate higher than that of automobile accidents, cancer and the flu combined. (US Statistics)
There is NO mandatory "severity factor" to go by when diagnosing something as a disease. Not all diseases are contagions, by the traditional sense of the word anyway. However, drug addiction, can be contagious, in the same way that beliefs systems are, they transfer from person to person by mere suggestion. Like the belief that drug addiction isn't a disease, even though modern science has pretty much proven that it is.
Just because something is classified as a disease, doesn't mean it has to be ultra deadly and highly contagious. Even though, statistically speaking, drug addiction is "ultra deadly". Another thing to add, as of now, there is no known cure for drug addiction. However, with modern medicine and modernized treatment methods it is very manageable.
Just something to think about.
My last 2¢ in this thread.
The ironic thing is, It's not that I'm over exaggerating what drug addiction is, by calling it a disease, in fact, the problem is, you're over exaggerating what the word disease is by projecting pre conceived notions onto it, ergo giving the word "disease" pedestal status.
For example, take the common cold for instance, most people don't even know it's a disease, let alone treat it like it's one. It's death rate is so low, it's not even worth mentioning. When people get the cold, they don't panic and say OH MY GOD I have a terrible DISEASE! HELP ME GOD! I HAVE A DISEASE! No, they take dayquil, eat some chicken noodle soup and drink some 7 up and continue about their day like nothing ever happened.
Now take drug addiction, it is a million times worse than the worst flu or cold you've ever gotten in your life. With a death rate higher than that of automobile accidents, cancer and the flu combined. (US Statistics)
There is NO mandatory "severity factor" to go by when diagnosing something as a disease. Not all diseases are contagions, by the traditional sense of the word anyway. However, drug addiction, can be contagious, in the same way that beliefs systems are, they transfer from person to person by mere suggestion. Like the belief that drug addiction isn't a disease, even though modern science has pretty much proven that it is.
Just because something is classified as a disease, doesn't mean it has to be ultra deadly and highly contagious. Even though, statistically speaking, drug addiction is "ultra deadly". Another thing to add, as of now, there is no known cure for drug addiction. However, with modern medicine and modernized treatment methods it is very manageable.
Just something to think about.
My last 2¢ in this thread.
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
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You don't have a disease GodandLove, you have a drug induced brain injury. There is a difference
GodandLove
Bluelighter
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Nice Troll OTW.
Congratulations,
You got me to post in this thread after I stated I was giving my last 2¢.
Lowly troll is thou.
For shame OTW.
P.S
So, using your logic, Type 2 diabetes isn't a disease, it's sugar induced pancreatic damage. Of course.
OTW, you're on to something big, you should immediately inform the National Institute of General Medical Sciences of your very, very important life saving discovery!
CosmicG
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I believe that addiction is a disease, not just because I am one and need an excuse for why I continue to use every day, but because why else would someone be willing to literally give up on everyone and everything they have ever lived or wanted for a drug? It is a mental disease. In my own I case I believe it has to do with my family history as many relatives in the past had alcohol and drug issues resulting in ultimate deaths. I am incredibly OCD and have obsessive thoughts and impulses constantly. I am also diagnosed bipolar and have been on medication for that and anxiety for three years now. If this does not all sound like mental disease then I don't have a clue as to what it is I am speaking of.
I think disease is a useful term for me to understand addiction once you have had both a physical/psychological dependency on a drug. I was an addict for 10 years and was drug free for 26 years, using the term disease was helpful. During my ten years I stopped via detox, cold turkey and by force more than once. I would feel good have a job etc but when I had one hit it always turned into a habit within days or weeks. Fast forward 26 years that's how long I was drug free living with the concept of disease and recovery one day at a time. I recently came down with a serious pain issue and was prescribed tramadol and codeine forte. Within weeks I'm doing CW extraction of codiene and now I'm seriously considering picking up. The disease concept does not diminish my responsibility. If i pick up now it is my choice. However the little taste of narcotics set of the nurofen transmitters in my brain and they are saying feed me feed me.
Oh and a side note when I was in treatment I the late 1980's my parents came to visit and I said sorry for all the hurt and pain I had caused. I explained with the help of a counsellor that I have a disease and can never use again. My father said "if it's a disease how come all your mate caught it"
chugs
Bluelighter
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I'm afraid your father is missing a really important point. Diseases are communicable. In its very nature, a disease has a capability in which it uses to spreads itself. That said "addiction" isn't a diseases.
Its a deformity.
I don't know why we are having this debate. Watkins and Hutchinson in their seminal, paradigm shifting, research back in 2009 discovered the cause of addiction in their paper: Toll” of Opioid-Induced Glial Activation: Improving the Clinical Efficacy of Opioids by Targeting Glia.
They proved this by creating rats with opiate addictions. Think about this. We can make rats become addicted to opiates but no one has from birth created an animal addicted to drugs. This fundamentally proves their assertions especially since they cured the animal
How did they do this. They injected the animals with stress hormones, namely cortisone. This affected the brains development namely causing the glia to produce pro-inflammatory molecules that targeted the TL4 receptor in the brain. That cortisone has a major effect on brain has been known, with many researchers arguing that this was a factor in drug addiction. Dr. Gabor Maté aptly named 'In the realm of the hungry ghosts' talks extensively at how stress during pregnancy affects the development of brains
The risky behaviours, socially acceptable addictions like overeating, sports, and shopping that so characterise addicts prior to their use of opiates or other drugs. These behaviours create powerful neurotransmitters that bind to the TL4 receptor, displacing the neurotoxic molecules. The glia in damaged individuals response is to produce more of these pro-inflammatory molecules.
Thus begins a positive feedback cycle. The individual continues down the path of whatever behaviour creates the biggest amount neurotransmitter response. Stealing cars....great little buzz for the poor kid verse overeating for the middle class kid who's father used to beat him and his mother.....
As we get older and become exposed to opiates, alkaloids, amphetamine we discover a short cut. These drugs themselves bind to TL4. But its a positive feedback loop. The glia in a sort of fuck you response produces ever greater amounts of these neuroexcitatory agents. Tolerances quickly raise and we end up taking more and more drugs.
The glia however doesn't realise that we've stopped taking drugs. Bam we are being pummled like fuck with these toxic agents, right in the TL4 receptor. This is what we call withdrawals.
So what is the cure. Its so simple is scary. Anti-inflammatory drug that targets the area in question. Ibudilast .
Its a anti-inflammatory. Hutchinson proved by feeding this drug to rats he could stop withdrawals, tolerance and improve the effect of opiates. The rats stopped using the opiates, on their own.
I personally have already discovered this. Eating large numbers of green apples, and or vitamin C has stopped opiate withdrawals dead in their tracks. Its not 100% perfect but then again I haven't had Ibudilast.
This what forces us back to drugs. These inflammatory are responsible not just for the physical effects of withdrawal, but also the psychological. Anxious, panic attacks, fear, depression and complusive behaviours all stem back to this mechanism. These psychological issues are a form of dope sick.
This is why we use drugs. To stop feeling sick, pain.
But this what makes me sad. For all our lives we have been tortured by this. Like being in gitmo 24/7. This feeling, this sickness...like literally i used to get colds so often (like once every 3 weeks). Everyone thought I was unhealthy...now I know i was born sick.
It is the drug withdrawals, the physiological and psychological pain that drives us back to re-using despite our higher brain telling us not to. We know that drugs are bad. We understand steal is bad. But when you are tortured by drugs 24/7, over and over, how can you blame us for breaking.
Some of us tolerate more pain. Some of us manage to earn a straight income. But you know what decrying those who cannot do as you do isn't a sign of your superiority. its just a reflection of the fact you are less deformed then they.
The psychological of drug withdrawals are ever so subtle and in some ways the more powerful of the two affects. Depression, anxiety, and compulsiveness after the acute physiological symptoms aren't caused by another issue but rather are a continuation of the drug withdrawals.
This is why the war on drugs is so immoral. So terribly wrong. Its like locking up homosexuals because they choose to be gay. We are born with this. We cannot choice drug addiction anymore then the elite athlete asked to have inhuman strength and stamina.
The parasites, learned judges, doctors, police officers, lawyers and prison guards are like leaches sucking drug users dry. Letting us and tens of thousands die so they can be enriched in their torture of us.
As if being tortured 24 hours a day by our brains wasn't enough these fuckers have to twist the knife.
-----
Born like this
Into this
As the chalk faces smile
As Mrs. Death laughs
As the elevators break
As political landscapes dissolve
As the supermarket bag boy holds a college degree
As the oily fish spit out their oily prey
As the sun is masked
We are
Born like this
Into this
Into these carefully mad wars
Into the sight of broken factory windows of emptiness
Into bars where people no longer speak to each other
Into fist fights that end as shootings and knifings
Born into this
Into hospitals which are so expensive that it's cheaper to die
Into lawyers who charge so much it's cheaper to plead guilty
Into a country where the jails are full and the madhouses closed
Into a place where the masses elevate fools into rich heroes
Born into this
Walking and living through this
Dying because of this
Muted because of this
Castrated
Debauched
Disinherited
Because of this
Fooled by this
Used by this
Pissed on by this
Made crazy and sick by this
Made violent
Made inhuman
By this
The heart is blackened
The fingers reach for the throat
The gun
The knife
The bomb
The fingers reach toward an unresponsive god
The fingers reach for the bottle
The pill
The powder
We are born into this sorrowful deadliness
We are born into a government 60 years in debt
That soon will be unable to even pay the interest on that debt
And the banks will burn
Money will be useless
There will be open and unpunished murder in the streets
It will be guns and roving mobs
Land will be useless
Food will become a diminishing return
Nuclear power will be taken over by the many
Explosions will continually shake the earth
Radiated robot men will stalk each other
The rich and the chosen will watch from space platforms
Dante's Inferno will be made to look like a children's playground
The sun will not be seen and it will always be night
Trees will die
All vegetation will die
Radiated men will eat the flesh of radiated men
The sea will be poisoned
The lakes and rivers will vanish
Rain will be the new gold
The rotting bodies of men and animals will stink in the dark wind
The last few survivors will be overtaken by new and hideous diseases
And the space platforms will be destroyed by attrition
The petering out of supplies
The natural effect of general decay
And there will be the most beautiful silence never heard
Born out of that.
The sun still hidden there
Awaiting the next chapter.
URL: http://able2know.org/topic/91839-1
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