Adderall/Vyvanse/Dexedrine/Methylphenidate all that shit

[BeauDean]

Speaking, more like pleading, to any life long ADDers out there whom have been battle axing their way through life not only from being bred with a discouraging disorder like ADD or ADHD, but also navigating their way through the fuck show of medications over the years at an attempt to quiet the head and steady the nerves. I've been a subscriber to the stimulant scene since my late teens and now, at the (slightly wiser) old afew of 47 I find myself helplessly and shamelessly addicted to what once completely reinvented my life and how I viewed the world. Full disclosure: I am a recovering alcoholic and cocaine addict. Most definitely should never have been prescribed a Class 2 in the first place but someone with a higher degree than myself portrayed me as a self medicator (no shit?!) and, if properly medicated, I would not need booze and blow. Turns out bitch nee her shit because it was nothing but rainbows and rowboats after quitting drinking (not that hard) and doing blow (hard as fuck). For 2 years I took a little peach oval 20mg Adderall IR when I woke up and never had so much as a scratchin for more. Until I did. Work hours got longer. Tolerance got higher. Introduce the XR with a small IR bump to avoid the dreaded crash. Dexedrine XR with a Focalyn IR bumb in the morning and an Adderall bump in the afternoon. Now I'm taking benzos and Nyquil to sleep, only to wake up and reach for the script. Downside is that my doc is a bit of a friend so he has a hard time saying no when I want to up my script but he def does if i come at him with too much. My last request was 60mg Vyvanse with a 20mg Adderall IR bumb. Apologies for the chronology of my predicament. Bottom line is, as of today I have a script for 60mg Vyvanse and 10mg Adderall IR. I picked up on the 2nd of this month. In 4 days I blew through 300mg of Adderall (the whole months script) and 1020mg Vyvanse. Avg 330mg stim per day. And still holding. Not a firm grip, but still definitely full grasp. Business is killing it. Social life.. let's just say I'd rather crunch numbers and contemplate the differing war strategies in Ukraine. With lots of adderall close by.

And finally, to my point and, ultimately, my question to you seasoned professionals. Is there any hope for me of turning this ship around and getting back to the early days when it was my friend not my foe? If I can steer clear of IR stimulants, I seem to do much better but the duration always renders the need for at 10mg to avoid the crash. I hear Mydaysis is a 16 hour ride. Can anyone confirm that? I love to hate this stimulant world but the hate part is wearing me the fuck out and I want to kiss and make up or I want the fuck off the train. Anyone been there and found an alternative to stimulants for ADD?
Mad respect if you made it to the end of this tirade and even more if you take the time to respond. Well wishes all around, my friends. Be safe out there.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Welcome to Bluelight.

A stim addiction is just like an opioid addiction. We think we need the substance to get up in the morning, go to work, come home and make dinner, do chores,

Whatever we have to do in life we think we need either the upper or the downer to complete these tasks. The mundane and boring looks so much more enticing when we have our drugs of choice. Blowing through your script in a few days is exactly what people do when they have lost control and the addiction has taken over.

The only advice I can give you is that you have 2 choices. You can tell your Dr. ( your friend ) that you are blowing through your scripts in 3 days and that you lost all control. This choice is usually not what people want to do because even though they are out of control, the thought of getting their scripts reduced is horrifying.

Or...you can get someone to hold them for you and dispense to you the daily meds that are prescribed. This person gives you the amount to be taken and no more. People don't like this one either because they have to give up control and their scripts and that is also something addicts don't want to do.

The choices suck but you are clearly asking for help and really the only person that is going to help you is your Dr. or a trusted family member. If left alone to your own devices you won't change your behavior. We never do. We continue month after month abusing our scripts until something happens that is a wake up call. Could be a heart attack, a failed UA, someone else finding out that we swallow 30 pills a day and ratting us out....could be anything that brings a sudden halt to our addiction. I know this isn't answering your question but it's all I really have. I mean the only person that can fix this is you. Just depends on how bad you want to slow down your stim addiction. I feel for ya and it sucks but your choices going forward will determine where you are in life 5 years from now. You still might be abusing your scripts but maybe you won't. It ain't easy but it's doable if you really want it.

 

[arrall]

The only way for your brain to recover is for you to take some time off of stimulants. 60mg Vyvanse + 10mg Adderall IR is not an excessive amount by any means, but blowing through all of it in a few days is extremely concerning.

Is there any hope for me of turning this ship around and getting back to the early days when it was my friend not my foe? If I can steer clear of IR stimulants, I seem to do much better but the duration always renders the need for at 10mg to avoid the crash. I hear Mydaysis is a 16 hour ride. Can anyone confirm that?

I haven't tried it (not available in my country) but I believe that is correct.

I love to hate this stimulant world but the hate part is wearing me the fuck out and I want to kiss and make up or I want the fuck off the train. Anyone been there and found an alternative to stimulants for ADD?

I personally rely on stimulants but have been able to develop a healthy relationship with them by never using them recreationally and sticking to my prescribed amount.

Some people find that a combination of changes as simple as a good diet, daily exercise, daily meditation, 8-9 hours of sleep a night, drinking lots of water, minimizing time on TV/Netflix/social media/devices, etcetera can see the effect that each of the above have coalesce into a drastic natural reduction of their ADHD that is enough to minimize the reliance on medication. Some do all of this and still struggle.

ADHD is a bit different for everyone. It involves measurable behavioral and neurochemical differences, and generally a combination of medication and good habits is what works for most people. The latter is usually quite underemphasized due to the psychiatric field overworking doctors while drastically overemphasizing the role of medication in treating mental disorders.

---

As for some alternatives to stimulants:

Some people find that various nootropics or 'non-stimulant medications' or microdosing LSD works for them, but generally these solutions fail for most and (outside of the approved non stimulants) usually don't stand up to scientific scrutiny.

I have tried a few nootropics (Fascoracetam, Bromantane, Phenibut). Bromantane did seem to give me some motivation and an energy boost, but the effects were honestly lackluster and highly underwhelming unless I combined it with my daily dose of script amphetamines (which likely isn't the greatest idea.) Phenibut can be fun recreationally, but didn't do jack shit for my ADHD. Fascoracetam made me slightly depressed for a couple hours and did nothing else.

People generally report moderately improved efficacy for ADHD treatment with the other racetams (Phenylpiracetam, Piracetam, Noopept), but I have never seen anyone genuinely claim that they work better than or as well as amphetamines for ADHD.

The efficacy of non-stimulant medication like Guanfacine is generally primarily seen when combined with stimulants, while Strattera and Wellbutrin (which cannot truly be considered "non-stimulants" given their mechanisms of action) often have a mild effect that most find is outweighed by the side effects of the drug.

Microdosing LSD seems best suited for those with comorbid depression/PTSD/etc. I find that it helps a lot with those but does very little for my ADHD. Some will disagree, but between the inconsistency of street LSD purity + dosage and the strength of the placebo effect with such a powerful compound it doesn't seem to have much value in treating ADHD.

These solutions may be worth trying, but don't go in expecting them to be able to replace Vyvanse. Amphetamine is one of the few drugs that works for the majority of people with ADHD, and the various patented release-mechanism-alteration amphetamine drugs have upheld amphetamine's position as the clear king of ADHD medication for several decades.

EDIT: I will add that meditation - while extremely difficult for those with ADHD - can also be extremely helpful and is worth trying.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

^^ great post. Full of some great alternatives and harm reduction.

 

[BeauDean]

Welcome to Bluelight.

A stim addiction is just like an opioid addiction. We think we need the substance to get up in the morning, go to work, come home and make dinner, do chores,

Whatever we have to do in life we think we need either the upper or the downer to complete these tasks. The mundane and boring looks so much more enticing when we have our drugs of choice. Blowing through your script in a few days is exactly what people do when they have lost control and the addiction has taken over.

The only advice I can give you is that you have 2 choices. You can tell your Dr. ( your friend ) that you are blowing through your scripts in 3 days and that you lost all control. This choice is usually not what people want to do because even though they are out of control, the thought of getting their scripts reduced is horrifying.

Or...you can get someone to hold them for you and dispense to you the daily meds that are prescribed. This person gives you the amount to be taken and no more. People don't like this one either because they have to give up control and their scripts and that is also something addicts don't want to do.

The choices suck but you are clearly asking for help and really the only person that is going to help you is your Dr. or a trusted family member. If left alone to your own devices you won't change your behavior. We never do. We continue month after month abusing our scripts until something happens that is a wake up call. Could be a heart attack, a failed UA, someone else finding out that we swallow 30 pills a day and ratting us out....could be anything that brings a sudden halt to our addiction. I know this isn't answering your question but it's all I really have. I mean the only person that can fix this is you. Just depends on how bad you want to slow down your stim addiction. I feel for ya and it sucks but your choices going forward will determine where you are in life 5 years from now. You still might be abusing your scripts but maybe you won't. It ain't easy but it's doable if you really want it.

Many thanks, Nurse Ratched (clever name btw and love the Cuckoo's Nest reference). Your comments and advice going forward are what my gut tells me needs to happen. I don't see myself being honest with my doc, primarily because I would fear that the trust factor between us would be severely damaged being that every time I go in for med checkups I lie through my teeth and say all is just fine. He moved mountains to help me quit alcohol in 2018 and I don't ever want him to feel like he was complicit in fabricating a replacement addiction. He' just happens to be a good doc that genuinely wants to see his patients thriving in life. Which at the moment, I am not but it's not his doing and so fuck even going there. Your suggestion to have someone dispense my meds to me daily, however, is a viable option. And you're correct in stating that it won't be easy, but I'm certain it would be a lot easier than this plate I've got in front of me right now. "Long is way and hard that out of hell leads to light".

 

[BeauDean]

The only way for your brain to recover is for you to take some time off of stimulants. 60mg Vyvanse + 10mg Adderall IR is not an excessive amount by any means, but blowing through all of it in a few days is extremely concerning.

I haven't tried it (not available in my country) but I believe that is correct.

I personally rely on stimulants but have been able to develop a healthy relationship with them by never using them recreationally and sticking to my prescribed amount.

Some people find that a combination of changes as simple as a good diet, daily exercise, daily meditation, 8-9 hours of sleep a night, drinking lots of water, minimizing time on TV/Netflix/social media/devices, etcetera can see the effect that each of the above have coalesce into a drastic natural reduction of their ADHD that is enough to minimize the reliance on medication. Some do all of this and still struggle.

ADHD is a bit different for everyone. It involves measurable behavioral and neurochemical differences, and generally a combination of medication and good habits is what works for most people. The latter is usually quite underemphasized due to the psychiatric field overworking doctors while drastically overemphasizing the role of medication in treating mental disorders.

---

As for some alternatives to stimulants:

Some people find that various nootropics or 'non-stimulant medications' or microdosing LSD works for them, but generally these solutions fail for most and (outside of the approved non stimulants) usually don't stand up to scientific scrutiny.

I have tried a few nootropics (Fascoracetam, Bromantane, Phenibut). Bromantane did seem to give me some motivation and an energy boost, but the effects were honestly lackluster and highly underwhelming unless I combined it with my daily dose of script amphetamines (which likely isn't the greatest idea.) Phenibut can be fun recreationally, but didn't do jack shit for my ADHD. Fascoracetam made me slightly depressed for a couple hours and did nothing else.

People generally report moderately improved efficacy for ADHD treatment with the other racetams (Phenylpiracetam, Piracetam, Noopept), but I have never seen anyone genuinely claim that they work better than or as well as amphetamines for ADHD.

The efficacy of non-stimulant medication like Guanfacine is generally primarily seen when combined with stimulants, while Strattera and Wellbutrin (which cannot truly be considered "non-stimulants" given their mechanisms of action) often have a mild effect that most find is outweighed by the side effects of the drug.

Microdosing LSD seems best suited for those with comorbid depression/PTSD/etc. I find that it helps a lot with those but does very little for my ADHD. Some will disagree, but between the inconsistency of street LSD purity + dosage and the strength of the placebo effect with such a powerful compound it doesn't seem to have much value in treating ADHD.

These solutions may be worth trying, but don't go in expecting them to be able to replace Vyvanse. Amphetamine is one of the few drugs that works for the majority of people with ADHD, and the various patented release-mechanism-alteration amphetamine drugs have upheld amphetamine's position as the clear king of ADHD medication for several decades.

EDIT: I will add that meditation - while extremely difficult for those with ADHD - can also be extremely helpful and is worth trying.

Thank you for taking the time to respond and for all of the advice about how to navigate this storm I'm passing through. I did LSD in college once and had an overall "street LSD" positive experience. The microdosing of the drug for multiple mental disorders intrigues me, more specifically for the treatment of PTSD. Your mention of it regarding ADD therapy is the first I've heard of it in that realm. I will research your nootropic suggestions as well. One that I did not see you mention and that my wife has had considerable success with is NADH. https://nadh.ch/index.php/en-us/info-en

Are you familiar with it? Prof. George Birkmayer is one of the early pioneers of NADH therapy and he is the only distributor that we trust buying it from. Taken alone I find it inferior to amphetamines with regards to the focus factor and overall cognitive skills management. That being said, I take it regularly as part of my stimulant regimen to help repair any cellular damage caused by the amphetamines, as well as an energy booster (very effective), immune support and overall cognitive health. It has enough of an impact on my brain chemistry that I definitely notice when I do not take it. The best part? Non-addictive. What a fucking concept. (!)

I had a brief romance with Strattera and while I was pleased with the effects of the drug, I experienced multiple negative side effects that far outweighed the benefits.

I subscribe to your thoughts on diet, exercise and meditation (if the ADD ants in your pants allow for it). I feel many people get into trouble by leaning on their med routine to heavily and nutrition and exercise not nearly enough. Typically if one is off then they all suffer to some degree. I'm actually quite guilty of that scenario right now, which is without a doubt part of why I'm so out of whack at the moment. Exercise alone (more notably HIT sessions, fatigue sets, et.) in some circles is viewed as a "cure all" drug but it takes hard work and discipline.. factors of the equation that you can't just go and get a prescription for.

Well, again, I value your thoughts on all this because I truly am so fucked in the head at the moment so the discussion is healthy.

 

[Nas47]

The only way for your brain to recover is for you to take some time off of stimulants. 60mg Vyvanse + 10mg Adderall IR is not an excessive amount by any means, but blowing through all of it in a few days is extremely concerning.

I haven't tried it (not available in my country) but I believe that is correct.

I personally rely on stimulants but have been able to develop a healthy relationship with them by never using them recreationally and sticking to my prescribed amount.

Some people find that a combination of changes as simple as a good diet, daily exercise, daily meditation, 8-9 hours of sleep a night, drinking lots of water, minimizing time on TV/Netflix/social media/devices, etcetera can see the effect that each of the above have coalesce into a drastic natural reduction of their ADHD that is enough to minimize the reliance on medication. Some do all of this and still struggle.

ADHD is a bit different for everyone. It involves measurable behavioral and neurochemical differences, and generally a combination of medication and good habits is what works for most people. The latter is usually quite underemphasized due to the psychiatric field overworking doctors while drastically overemphasizing the role of medication in treating mental disorders.

---

As for some alternatives to stimulants:

Some people find that various nootropics or 'non-stimulant medications' or microdosing LSD works for them, but generally these solutions fail for most and (outside of the approved non stimulants) usually don't stand up to scientific scrutiny.

I have tried a few nootropics (Fascoracetam, Bromantane, Phenibut). Bromantane did seem to give me some motivation and an energy boost, but the effects were honestly lackluster and highly underwhelming unless I combined it with my daily dose of script amphetamines (which likely isn't the greatest idea.) Phenibut can be fun recreationally, but didn't do jack shit for my ADHD. Fascoracetam made me slightly depressed for a couple hours and did nothing else.

People generally report moderately improved efficacy for ADHD treatment with the other racetams (Phenylpiracetam, Piracetam, Noopept), but I have never seen anyone genuinely claim that they work better than or as well as amphetamines for ADHD.

The efficacy of non-stimulant medication like Guanfacine is generally primarily seen when combined with stimulants, while Strattera and Wellbutrin (which cannot truly be considered "non-stimulants" given their mechanisms of action) often have a mild effect that most find is outweighed by the side effects of the drug.

Microdosing LSD seems best suited for those with comorbid depression/PTSD/etc. I find that it helps a lot with those but does very little for my ADHD. Some will disagree, but between the inconsistency of street LSD purity + dosage and the strength of the placebo effect with such a powerful compound it doesn't seem to have much value in treating ADHD.

These solutions may be worth trying, but don't go in expecting them to be able to replace Vyvanse. Amphetamine is one of the few drugs that works for the majority of people with ADHD, and the various patented release-mechanism-alteration amphetamine drugs have upheld amphetamine's position as the clear king of ADHD medication for several decades.

EDIT: I will add that meditation - while extremely difficult for those with ADHD - can also be extremely helpful and is worth trying.

As for ADHD -that condition comes to East countries like some"new".From my childhood i remember,that wasvsmall proportion.Just to.....determined kids,hard to learn often and comunicate,but with some inner,not nessesery medicationed world.Treating this condition with stimulants probably is scientific proof...just say that this days a lot kids are diagnosed with ADHD

 

[wareika]

This exact thing is on my mind atm too. Thanks for the post BeauDean and all for the helpful responses. As i approach crunch time for leaving behind the prescribed stims i have moments of real worry. Whether its possible. (I know its possible..others have done it..) But in my life i haven't developed much determination or tolerance to pain, if im honest. So the discomfort and pain & hard work that lies ahead presents a real challenge. On physical/mental/emotional/spiritual
levels.

We all have different skills, history & things we can draw on. In my case, it's a whole lot of growing up. On a few levels.. My stim addiction just happens to be the catalyst i guess.

All the best.

navigating their way through the fuck show

& well said haha

 

[wareika]

As for ADHD -that condition comes to East countries like some"new".From my childhood i remember,that wasvsmall proportion.Just to.....determined kids,hard to learn often and comunicate,but with some inner,not nessesery medicationed world.Treating this condition with stimulants probably is scientific proof...just say that this days a lot kids are diagnosed with ADHD

And many ppl who have ADHD...like myself and some friends of mine...end up using the stims for the emotional conditions that often accompany ADHD. Like long term depression, fragile & emotional sensitivity, long term trashed self esteem, long term under achievment. [I don't mean all ADHD ppl. There's so much diversity in this group. But there are definitely emotional components in ADHD. And the pattern i've been in..is basically using stims to mask depression & low mood etc. Its an easy trap to fall into and really pretty common. Just based on ppl i know irl.

 

[wareika]

Many thanks, Nurse Ratched (clever name btw and love the Cuckoo's Nest reference). Your comments and advice going forward are what my gut tells me needs to happen. I don't see myself being honest with my doc, primarily because I would fear that the trust factor between us would be severely damaged being that every time I go in for med checkups I lie through my teeth and say all is just fine. He moved mountains to help me quit alcohol in 2018 and I don't ever want him to feel like he was complicit in fabricating a replacement addiction. He' just happens to be a good doc that genuinely wants to see his patients thriving in life. Which at the moment, I am not but it's not his doing and so fuck even going there. Your suggestion to have someone dispense my meds to me daily, however, is a viable option. And you're correct in stating that it won't be easy, but I'm certain it would be a lot easier than this plate I've got in front of me right now. "Long is way and hard that out of hell leads to light".

One of my local pharmacies offered to dispense my pills for free. It kind of fell apart after a few months and atm i just take the whole months supply. My tolerance has been escalating like crazy and can easily reach 100mg of dexamphetamine daily. Which doesn't seem overly dangerous but well above what im prescribed. It's good to know i can return to doing the dispensation.

If you have a friendly pharamacist who cares about their customers, give it a go.