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Adderall Neurotoxicity

Stradlater

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Joined
Aug 19, 2010
Messages
4
Hello all! I would be genuinely and deeply grateful if you guys could help me sort out some issues i've been having with stimulants.

I started taking adderall about 9 months ago. First at 20mg, then 30mg, then 40mg. At first it was great - ADD was much better, I could memorize stuff real well, and I felt just great. I did over use it some. For a week and a half I stayed up for 3 days at a time and I've stayed up all night or for a couple nights or taken 50mg in a day several other times.

Anyways - About two weeks ago I was pretty depressed and wasn't doing a whole lot (even though on adderall) and needed to write a paper for a friend, so I stayed up all night to write it. Only problem was that instead of feeling great and getting the paper done beautifully, I just felt horrible. I was very much awake, but all I could do was stare at my computer screen think about weird existencial rubish very deeply. I ended up taking like 50mg throughout the night and it just got worse. I'm not sure if this was a mixed episode or a psychotic break or what.

Ever since then I've not felt right at all. I kind of feel like I'm going a bit crazy. My memory is crap, I'm paranoid, anxious, etc. I've switched to methylphenidate and then dexmethylphenidate, but haven't started feeling a whole lot better.

My concern is this . . . . could I have damaged something in my brain by using adderall? I found some journal articles on primates that concerned me:

Here's an abstract that I got from here: http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v32/n4/full/1301179a.html

Amphetamine (AMPH) sensitization in the nonhuman primate induces persistent aberrant behaviors reminiscent of the hallmark symptoms of schizophrenia, including hallucinatory-like behaviors, psychomotor depression, and profound cognitive impairment. The present study examined whether AMPH sensitization induces similarly long-lasting morphologic alterations in prefrontal cortical pyramidal neurons. Three to 3½ years postsensitization, sensitized, and AMPH-naïve control monkeys were killed. Blocks of prefrontal cortex were Golgi-impregnated for elucidation of pyramidal dendritic morphology in layers II/superficial III (II/IIIs), deep III, and V/VI. In AMPH-sensitized animals as compared to AMPH-naïve controls, pyramidal dendrites in layer II/IIIs exhibited reduced overall dendritic branching and reduced peak spine density (22%) on the apical trunk. Across all layers, the distance from soma to peak spine density along the apical trunk was decreased (126.387.65 m in AMPH-sensitized compared to 162.987.26 m in AMPH-naïve controls), and basilar dendritic length was reduced (32%). These findings indicate that chronic dopamine dysregulation, consequent to AMPH sensitization, results in enduring, atrophic changes in prefrontal pyramidal dendrites that resemble the pathologic alterations described in patients with schizophrenia and may contribute to the persistence of schizophrenia-like behavioral changes and cognitive dysfunction associated with sensitization. These findings may also provide key insights into the etiologic origin of the pronounced behavioral disturbances and cognitive dysfunction associated with schizophrenia.

I read through it and these monkey's were only being injected with 0.1-1 mg/kg of amphetamines. I'm 72 kg and have taken 72 mg in a 24 hour period - though only at 10 or 20 mg at a time, could have I gotten damaged like these poor monkeys did?

-Thanks kindly friends,
-Stradlater
 
Sounds fairly typical of long term amphetamine use. The good news is it will get better, or at least it did for me. May take a few months.
 
For sure I am totally dain bramaged.

Seriously though 50mg in one day doesn't sound at all like a lot to me. I do around 300mg a day and I have had a day when I went through 600mg (20 30mg caps). Although I do go near neurotoxic/psychotic/delusional on the regular and visual/auditory hallucinations are very easy to come by thesedays. In fact there are small shadowy insectoids crawling between my monitor and coffee cup right now out of the corner of my eye, however if you try to look directly at them they are instantly gone, insect apparitions if you will... But more alarming by far are the paranoid delusions I am under the influence of that I don't know are delusion and am convinced of 100%. To say the least it's a bad feeling when you realize it. These are not the talking to hallucinated people type of delusions, it's more along the line of paranoid thinking except it goes totally under the radar and next thing you know I have fucked up a relationship because I was sure that my friend was doing something or thinking something or plotting something against me in some highly melodramatic conspiracy that in reality did not ever exist. I get those and they scare the ever-loving crap out of me when it gets fully exposed as a true delusion. These are also dangerous because the rage and anger that I harbor as a result of having undiagnosed ADD really comes vividly alive when under even the slightest amp influence. So, to a few people close to me I am now considered (and perhaps rightly so) delusional and dangerous....

bad vibes, I gotta pull out of this tailspin soon...
 
.

For sure I am totally dain bramaged.

Seriously though 50mg in one day doesn't sound at all like a lot to me. I do around 300mg a day and I have had a day when I went through 600mg (20 30mg caps). Although I do go near neurotoxic/psychotic/delusional on the regular and visual/auditory hallucinations are very easy to come by thesedays. In fact there are small shadowy insectoids crawling between my monitor and coffee cup right now out of the corner of my eye, however if you try to look directly at them they are instantly gone, insect apparitions if you will... But more alarming by far are the paranoid delusions I am under the influence of that I don't know are delusion and am convinced of 100%. To say the least it's a bad feeling when you realize it. These are not the talking to hallucinated people type of delusions, it's more along the line of paranoid thinking except it goes totally under the radar and next thing you know I have fucked up a relationship because I was sure that my friend was doing something or thinking something or plotting something against me in some highly melodramatic conspiracy that in reality did not ever exist. I get those and they scare the ever-loving crap out of me when it gets fully exposed as a true delusion. These are also dangerous because the rage and anger that I harbor as a result of having undiagnosed ADD really comes vividly alive when under even the slightest amp influence. So, to a few people close to me I am now considered (and perhaps rightly so) delusional and dangerous....

bad vibes, I gotta pull out of this tailspin soon...
holy shit, 600mg? u most have an incredible tolerance level
 
Probably a little bit of damage, I think I know the feeling you speak of.

I would start cutting down on my dosage and eventually stop, I think once you start getting that feeling it is only a matter of time until it gets really bad.

Amphetamines are a double edged sword, I wish I could take them all the time but am pretty sure I need to keep my usage to every once in a while to preserve my sanity.
 
For sure I am totally dain bramaged.

Seriously though 50mg in one day doesn't sound at all like a lot to me. I do around 300mg a day and I have had a day when I went through 600mg (20 30mg caps). Although I do go near neurotoxic/psychotic/delusional on the regular and visual/auditory hallucinations are very easy to come by thesedays. In fact there are small shadowy insectoids crawling between my monitor and coffee cup right now out of the corner of my eye, however if you try to look directly at them they are instantly gone, insect apparitions if you will... But more alarming by far are the paranoid delusions I am under the influence of that I don't know are delusion and am convinced of 100%. To say the least it's a bad feeling when you realize it. These are not the talking to hallucinated people type of delusions, it's more along the line of paranoid thinking except it goes totally under the radar and next thing you know I have fucked up a relationship because I was sure that my friend was doing something or thinking something or plotting something against me in some highly melodramatic conspiracy that in reality did not ever exist. I get those and they scare the ever-loving crap out of me when it gets fully exposed as a true delusion. These are also dangerous because the rage and anger that I harbor as a result of having undiagnosed ADD really comes vividly alive when under even the slightest amp influence. So, to a few people close to me I am now considered (and perhaps rightly so) delusional and dangerous....

bad vibes, I gotta pull out of this tailspin soon...

Jeese, I used to go through 200-300 mgs of dex/ady a day, but I've never done 600 before. Actually I might have, I don't remember how many times I redosed, but I did do a 150 dose a few times that I continued throughout the day (from the night before). Doing over 100 mgs (at once) though makes the next few days absolutely terrible, your mouth and throat are destroyed, your body is in so much pain, and you're just exhausted.

I'm honestly feeling great nowadays, way better than I used to even prior to drugs. It took me a longgg time to get over cravings, every activity I did made me want amp to make it so much better. I didn't get off amphetamines til early this year and I've stayed off them for the most part since them. I still take amphetamines occasionally (mostly for studying and such), but not meth and I take much more normal doses.

To the OP, 50 mgs a day isn't too big of a deal and if you go clean for a bit you should be back to normal.

Amphetamines are a double edged sword, I wish I could take them all the time but am pretty sure I need to keep my usage to every once in a while to preserve my sanity.

Yeah my sanity definitely went out the window while I was a tweaker. I can't stand using often anymore because I enjoy my mind while clean and I get major ticks after tweaking for a bit, clear my throat constantly, do weird ass shit with my eye, play with my ear, also I get too skinny and I sweat a shit ton. Gotta stay cute or else I'll blow any chances that come my way to hook up with anyone lol.
 
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I use addies regularly too, for a few years now. I get 90 x 20mg per month, which I believe is the maximum dosage that can be prescribed.

I've noticed a substantial decrease in all of the aspects of adderall I like. I can't get euphoria no matter how much I take now. I just wind up getting more jittery and anxious the more I take. I've heard that an experienced amp user can easily have a tolerance 1000x higher than a stimulant naive individual. Since 10mg used to make my heart beat fast and give me a rush of happy energy, it makes me sad to pop 100mg with breakfast and not get much out of it. It seems like I am bruxing much worse than I used to also. It used to be that I couldn't wait for the 30 days to be up to get a refill, but now I've let it lapse for a few weeks and I don't care.

I have a theory about ADD that it is caused by some areas of the brain being underdeveloped. I feel like amph changes brain structure permanently, but in a way that is mostly beneficial and results in a long-term reduction of ADD symptoms, even sans medications.
 
30 mgs is the highest dose of adderall XR, but how are you getting that much prescribed per month?

I used to have 60 of 15 mg dexedrine spansules prescribed a month, but that is because I was supposed to take 30mg at a time. The only way I was able to maintain my habit was through 3 different prescriptions of my own, brother's prescription, and old bottles from when I used to have prescriptions and didn't really care for them. I'm pretty sure my doctor would have been suspicious if I was going through 90x30 a month, but getting 3 a month I could just just get ady xr, dex ir, and dex xr, or vyvanse instead of one of them and he didn't suspect anything cause he didn't really add up the use and I gave him valid reasons.
 
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Probably a little bit of damage, I think I know the feeling you speak of.

I would start cutting down on my dosage and eventually stop, I think once you start getting that feeling it is only a matter of time until it gets really bad.

Amphetamines are a double edged sword, I wish I could take them all the time but am pretty sure I need to keep my usage to every once in a while to preserve my sanity.

Thanks. I switched to dexmethylphenidate and I'm starting to feel more OK. Yeah, it would be nice if they worked just like the first time every time. lol.
 
I have a theory about ADD that it is caused by some areas of the brain being underdeveloped. I feel like amph changes brain structure permanently, but in a way that is mostly beneficial and results in a long-term reduction of ADD symptoms, even sans medications.

Yeah. I agree. I think that the brain can either be changed by meds or by new ways of thinking. Maybe after stimulants a person kind of remembers how to be non-add. Who knows.

I do around 300mg a day and I have had a day when I went through 600mg (20 30mg caps). Although I do go near neurotoxic/psychotic/delusional on the regular and visual/auditory hallucinations are very easy to come by thesedays. In fact there are small shadowy insectoids crawling between my monitor and coffee cup right now out of the corner of my eye, however if you try to look directly at them they are instantly gone, insect apparitions if you will... But more alarming by far are the paranoid delusions I am under the influence of that I don't know are delusion and am convinced of 100%. To say the least it's a bad feeling when you realize it. These are not the talking to hallucinated people type of delusions, it's more along the line of paranoid thinking except it goes totally under the radar and next thing you know I have fucked up a relationship because I was sure that my friend was doing something or thinking something or plotting something against me in some highly melodramatic conspiracy that in reality did not ever exist. I get those and they scare the ever-loving crap out of me when it gets fully exposed as a true delusion.

Yeah, i've felt just a bit of that too. I'm still not sure if they were delusions or just a higher awareness of people actually being after me :). J/C: How do you get/afford that many adderalls? That's like a prescription a day. LOL.

Has anyone tried mixing adderall/methylphenidate with chlonidine? I got a prescription for it the other day.
 
bad vibes, I gotta pull out of this tailspin soon...

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I took 560 mgs of adderall once, not by choice, I was getting pulled over. Not a fun day. Lots of euphoria but lots of nausea too.
 
I'm still not sure if they were delusions or just a higher awareness of people actually being after me :).
A little of both I'm sure... In fact, I've found that under the influence of a 150mg dose my senses are heightened to the point of animalian clarity. To the point of extreme discomfort in fact. Like the sounds I heard that normally would not bother me were easily twice as loud because my hearing was so heightened. I could smell things like a dog and I could smell what different people smelled like, and in the night I could see like an owl, and my reflexes were like lightning. Not to mention my endurance and stamina are like superman. I'm sure a lot of people will dismiss this as distorted perception, and maybe their right.

J/C: How do you get/afford that many adderalls?
Where there's a will, there's a way.
 
A little of both I'm sure... In fact, I've found that under the influence of a 150mg dose my senses are heightened to the point of animalian clarity. To the point of extreme discomfort in fact. Like the sounds I heard that normally would not bother me were easily twice as loud because my hearing was so heightened. I could smell things like a dog and I could smell what different people smelled like, and in the night I could see like an owl, and my reflexes were like lightning. Not to mention my endurance and stamina are like superman. I'm sure a lot of people will dismiss this as distorted perception, and maybe their right.


Where there's a will, there's a way.
This is pure fuckin' brilliance. Could be a passage in any classic drug novel.
 
i been taking Dexamphetamine for 18 years now. short term memory loss is just normal for me, i've dealt with it since i started taking the dex, I counteract that by writing things down to help me remember stuff, since camera phones came out they have also helped me remember a whole bunch of things too. where there is a will there is a way.
 
Hello all! I would be genuinely and deeply grateful if you guys could help me sort out some issues i've been having with stimulants.

I started taking adderall about 9 months ago. First at 20mg, then 30mg, then 40mg. At first it was great - ADD was much better, I could memorize stuff real well, and I felt just great. I did over use it some. For a week and a half I stayed up for 3 days at a time and I've stayed up all night or for a couple nights or taken 50mg in a day several other times.

Anyways - About two weeks ago I was pretty depressed and wasn't doing a whole lot (even though on adderall) and needed to write a paper for a friend, so I stayed up all night to write it. Only problem was that instead of feeling great and getting the paper done beautifully, I just felt horrible. I was very much awake, but all I could do was stare at my computer screen think about weird existencial rubish very deeply. I ended up taking like 50mg throughout the night and it just got worse. I'm not sure if this was a mixed episode or a psychotic break or what.

Ever since then I've not felt right at all. I kind of feel like I'm going a bit crazy. My memory is crap, I'm paranoid, anxious, etc. I've switched to methylphenidate and then dexmethylphenidate, but haven't started feeling a whole lot better.

My concern is this . . . . could I have damaged something in my brain by using adderall? I found some journal articles on primates that concerned me:
You may have developed Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder esque symptoms from amphetamine use.
If you have access to methadone, try dosing 30mg once a day for several days, and your symptoms will start improving - or even be cured entirely.
 
I've been in the grip of an amphetamine addiction for about 2 years now.
I take anywhere from 90mg-300mg a day.
I don't sleep sometimes, I isolate sometimes.

Its pure fucking insanity.
Days, weeks, months all blur together.

You WILL get so delusional that it starts to ruin your relationships with friends and family (like someone mentioned earlier in the thread) -- and you don't realize its happening!! You think that there is some plot against you, or that your friends and family are trying to trick you in some great scheme of theirs.

Visual hallucinations are rare, but they do come sometimes. I used to see non-existent spiders and insects -- I could even stare directly at them and they wouldn't disappear.

Then if you stay up long enough, all the inanimate objects in your house begin turning into people, and they are all against you, or trying to get you.

You can try to act normal, you can try to tell yourself its all in your head... but when the friend you're talking to suddenly has his face melt off and he turns into a demon, you're bound to freak out and do something stupid.

I only wish all of this were an exaggeration.
 
Also, I like to brag about my awesome script: I get 60 count bottles of 30mg XR a month..... Thats 60mg a day, totally legit
 
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