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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

ADD Help? Tried Everything..

L

Louisville13

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
7
Hey everyone, Ive been using this site multiple times on a daily basis (seriously like hours at a time I am on here researching) since I started treatment but this is my first post. Sorry if its the wrong section I didn't see any stimulant section or anything.

So a few months ago I was diagnosed with severe ADHD and was started on medication. This was in like July and the plan was to get it under control before school started so I wouldn't end up dropping out of college again. Anyways I have tried so many different drugs since then. Ive been on adderall (xr and ir), concerta, strattera, vyvanse, and currently dexedrine ir. Along with these meds I have been on I don't even know how many anti depressants to try and clear the fog/numbness/lack of motivation I have been experiencing.

Everything I have tried has failed me. Every once in awhile if I get on a high enough dose and the stims will help, but only the first time I take that dose. I have been on high doses of all the meds listed because the doc ended up gene testing me and I apparently metabolize everything really fast. The only thing I have noticed is every once in awhile (for maybe a week) while on dexedrine I would hyper focus on things, but only late at night. My second dose never was later than 2pm and I would feel nothing through out the day, couldn't pay attention in class, etc. But when it got to be about 12am or so and I was writing a paper I would get hyper focused and OCD and have to make it perfect. I would take 3+ hours writing a one page paper because I would have to go back and constantly change words around to something "better".

Yesterday though I had to cram for a big bio exam in about 3 hours (my anxiety kept him up all night 2 nights before the test as usual so I wasn't able to study the night before the test). I decided to mix 60mg adderall ir and 60 (maybe 90?)mg dexedrine at 730am. Let me tell you, that was the first time I has really seen any results! I was able to read through his notes and remember everything. But around 1130am I took another 30mg dexedrine to get me through his exam at 1pm, that did not go well. My head became more foggy than ever and I couldn't concentrate at all. During the test my vision was a little blurred and my anxiety was higher than ever. I skipped the rest of the day and went home to lay down the rest of the day. My anxiety had never been so high and I was hallucinating a little. Was this because I had too many stims with not enough food/sleep, or was it an intense crash? Today I took 60mg dexedrine and feel slow (I am even typing slower than ever), a bit shaky, foggy, and my neck is tense. Must be because of my previous day as I usually take 60-90mg dex at a time.

I've also tried ice by accident. I knew cocaine didn't work for me as I always would do it when people offered and never felt any effect. I was told by his buddy that this was real good coke and it'll do something, it turned out to be ice. I mixed it with water and drank it and had the clearest head I had ever experienced and wasn't high at all. I was able to think, concentrate, and wasn't super anxious anymore. It was a high dose as this friend does it often and gave me what he did. I later tried it again months later as I was frustrated with all the other meds I was on not working. I took the same amount as before and felt maybe a third of the effect! I still had a foggy head etc.

My question is, what should I do next? My doc is started to lose help and is acting like they're running out of options. Thats not what I want, I need to get this under control so I can actually have the ability to use my brain. Does anyone have any suggestions? I realize this isn't much of a question but I really had to get out some of this frustration. I have tried adding ginkgo bilboa, drinking baking soda, and other things I have found on this forum. I could say a lot more but I need to get to class now. I don't know what to do about this. Im just totally lost.....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you want these meds to be able to help you in the long term then you have to stop abusing them. Amphetamine seems to work best when I only use it 2-4 times a week.
 
Swim hasnt really been abusing them? Hes taken the dosage he was perscribed daily as directed and then a tiny dose on weekends (dont have to concentrate on anything but keeping it in his system keeps him from getting side effects Monday). The only time he did something different was adding the adderall. Also I forgot to mention swims been on 300mg Wellbutrin and he forgot to take it yesterday and didnt take it today so maybe thats the side effects hes feeling.
 
Also forgot to mention we don't use SWIM here.

Well it sounds like you have run through all meds commonly prescribed for ADHD. I think it would be good to lower your tolerance by taking a break. What is your daily dose and daily prescribed dose?
 
Ah sorry about the swim thing! Totally understandable, even I was getting a little confused using it ha.

I was started at 30mg twice a day and told I could mess around with doses just don't go over 60mg a day. After 3 weeks I was so frustrated I decided to try 75mg but broke that tab unevenly so I ended up taking 90mg at once, and it worked, that time. It hasn't worked since. Which has happened with adderall ir once also. I got a day of high dosage stims breaking through my fog and allowing me to focus and use my brain for once. I never could get it to happen again though, even after taking breaks for a few days.

But as far as the dexedrine goes, I was started on that and 150mg wellbutrin at the same time. And that first week or so was when I would hyper focus late at night, so maybe that was because the wellbutrin blocked/delayed the dex? Then I got moved up to 300mg wellbutrin and haven't felt anything since. I couldn't tell the difference between days I took or didn't take dex, no matter if it was 15-90mg in a single dose. Until the day I had to study. I also think I forgot to take my wellbutrin that day and think thats what caused me to be so messed up.

Today I didn't take my wellbutrin again (I haven't noticed anything good happening from it) and pretty sure I have been going through withdrawal since yesterday. Its kinda neat as I have quit plenty of things cold turkey with no effects, nice to know something out there actually effects me. I googled around thinking it was the dex and adderall combo causing this. But I found a list of wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms which matched up with my what I was experiencing to a tee.

So I have been looking more into wellbutrin today ( I didn't before because I thought everyone liked it) and found people claiming it caused increased social anxiety, jaw clenching, trouble sleeping, loss of short term memory, losing words midway through sentences, etc. Which were all some of the things I had been experiencing and blamed the dex for. I honestly have not the slightest clue as to when I took wellbutrin last it was either Wed or Thurs, my memory really has become useless since being on these meds. But hopefully it was Wed so that I may get some sleep tonight for once. I have seriously stayed up ~40+ hours at a time multiple times, despite feeling exhausted. I was given plenty of antidepressants for sleep, but if they worked the first night, they wouldn't on the second or third. Anyways, back on topic: wellbutrin. I was researching it all day and came across a bunch of people describing things that sounded exactly like what I had been experiencing.

There was also a poll on one forum about wellbutrin blocking dex and people were supposedly noticing a difference because they were on dex before being on wellbutrin. However none of them updated their posts on what happened after quiting dex, that was pretty disappointing. So now my hope is that after a few days of the wellbutrin being out of my system, the dex will start to work. But in all honestly, it probably won't. Ive been on so many other stims without being on any other meds and still felt nothing.

I go back to my doc on Monday and I am a little worried. The last time I was there I was told that she had been talking to her colleagues about me (apparently I am a very complex case and she needed help - her words, not mine) and they were starting to think that they should be treating me for depression and take me off stimulants. I managed to talk her out of it that time and got out of there still prescribed dex and upping my wellbutrin to 300mg. But I am not sure whats going to happen this time, I can not go back to being "treated" for depression and nothing else! I have never even felt like I was depressed. But I'm not sure what else to try.

I had thought about desoxyn after discovering it here and reading how well it worked for people. Plus it seemed like it is the, strongest?, most potent? med for ADD and from my previous (accidental! I would never have done it if I knew what it was) experience with ice, I know that it is the drug that has cleared my head the best. I had mentioned trying it to her but she didn't seem like she had ever heard of it, I don't even think its made anymore. Plus how do you even go about doing that without sounding like your drug seeking? Seems kind of risky to me.

I am not really sure what else is out there for me to try though? It could be a dosage issue, according to my gene site test I metabolize stims (and all kinds of other rx meds) a lot faster than average, meaning I may need higher doses than most people. But 90mg dex seems pretty high compared to what I have seen everyone else being prescribed on here. Not really sure how high you can go either? Any input here would be awesome! I need a game plan for my appointment so I don't get forced into antidepressants due to lack of other options.

Its just very frustrating and disappointing. I have been on at least 10 different antidepressants/psychotics without ever experiencing a change. Then my psychiatrist finally talked me into getting tested for ADD and apparently I scored the second highest out of anyone that took the test at that office, my doc was very certain I had ADD. I became hopeful for the first time in years; thinking treating the ADD would be easy and solve all the issues that I have been trying to take care of for a couple years. As you can see, I was wrong; so wrong. So now I am back to feeling hopeless and lost.

Sorry for the lengthy post! I just sat down and started typing and it felt good to get all this out and vent about it to some....everyone. I kinda doubt anyone will read this all, but oh well it felt good to get out. Plus the fact that I may get some helpful input gives me a glimmer of hope. Anyways, thank you for all the help, I honestly don't know what I would do without this forum.
 
First, you stated that you use recreational stimulants. The resulting consequence from when you don't use them is you're going to feel lack of motivation etc. Basically your brain isn't motivated to do anything because it's trying to heal.

Second, you said you don't sleep much. Since you're not sleeping your brain isn't healing from your stimulant abuse, and apart from healing you need sleep to be able to perform anyway.

Last, you say that stimulants are barely helping you stay motivated. If this is the case then you definitely need to get off of them since there is no upside. Whatever little motivation you are obtaining will soon go away and you'll be worse off than before with ever increasing doaages. Some people do great on amphetamine but it's only harming you so you should cut it out.

Focus on your health, go to the gym, start juicing, have sex with pretty girls, look into nootropics just do more natural things to help your brain.
 
Sorry if I post twice, I posted from my phone but it seems it didn't go through.

I was afraid of that, I don't use any drugs recreationally. I just have no interest in it. The only reason I did those two times was because my therapist and I were dumbfounded that none of the meds I had been prescribed had had any effect on me. It got me pretty down and when I was out that night and someone offered me coke, I figured that would have to do something to me its strong and I tried it. But other these times, I don't use recreationally.

AS far as the sleep goes, that has only been since recently (last month or so). It started while on the stims and while in school with all the added stress/anxiety. I slept like a baby last night though so hopefully being off the wellbutrin had something to do with that.

Motivation is something I haven't felt in at least 10 years. I used to fix that by procrastinating everything til the very last possible second and letting that stress drive me to get things down, but sadly that hasn't been working for me anymore. So I am not really concerned with the stims leaving me worse off. Besides, the stims don't motivate me; but if they work and I am able to think, see clearly, focus, then I am actually able to do my work. The fact that I am actually able to do/understand my work for once uplifts my mood, boosts my confidence, and makes me want to continue doing homework. Which is another reason I don't want to be treated for only depression, if I am depressed then it is obviously due to my ADD making it difficult for me to understand and do school related things.

I do need to start exercising again, but haven't had the motivation to do that since I was a freshman in high school (8 years ago). I do need to eat better though, I have lost ~10lbs since school started; whoops. Thats not from the stims either as I don't have a problem eating or being hungry on them. The sex thing probably won't happen either as my sex drive seems to have completely 100% vanished here in the past few weeks. I guess I'll have to start researching nootropics, I just always assumed they were a gimmick.

Thank you for your input

**also does anyone else ever have the problem of being logged out halfway through typing a post so that you have to refresh and go log in again before being able to post your reply? I have only been typing like ten minutes...*
 
Amohetamines stop working for me if used everyday.

Kratom is the best thing I've found that works everyday...you will get physical lly dependent on it though
 
We all really want to help you man, but situations like the one you find yourself in currently are extremely difficult to manage remotely. We are simply limited in the specificity of information we can give. If you come to us and say, for instance "I have a bad cough, what can I take"? well, than we can say both Codeine and Dextromethorphan (OTC Cough Medicine) are suitable medications. The issue I've provided here is a little more straightforward.

Now, whenever you come with an issue such as this, with a basically infinite number of possible positive and negative scenarios, the best you can really hope to get is a series of random people, myself included, giving you random bits of information that did or did not work for their situation. If things weren't complicated enough, even if someone has it all figured out, they've only figured it out for themselves. A medication that has turned one person's life around for the better, could turn another person into a suicidal, psychotic mess.

The only effective way of getting to the bottom of the issue is working closely with your prescriber and really evaluating how each of these drugs are making you feel. Amphetamines can remain effective in some folks indefinitely, but I would venture to say that this is not the statistical norm and that most users of prescription Amphetamines are not on indefinite prescriptions. I have no references for this and granted, a lot of my experience is with confirmed drug addicts, so there's a bias.
 
This is just my own opinion, take it or leave it...but from my own experience with ADHD medication, the first dose will almost always be the best dose. After that first pill, the rest just do what they are supposed to. Calm, focus, attention, etc. It isn't a miracle drug...you really have to make it work. I can take a 70 mg Vyvanse and go straight to sleep. Or, I can take a 70mg Vyvanse, get up and moving, go to work having a super productive day. It also works much better when I get enough sleep, and eat breakfast. Again, this is just my own experience.
You may want to lower your dose. I know if the dose is too high, it will make you a scatterbrained, sleep deprived, hyper-focused zombie with a tolerance so high that nothing will ever work. I seriously think that if someone really needs ADHD medication, they'll appreciate the "normalcy" they feel and won't chase the speedy high that came with the initial dose.

Best of luck to you.
 
Since the stims are not doing much for you, especially not consistently, I will suggest another approach.
Get your hormones tested, in particular Testosterone ( free and total ), estrogens, LH and FSH, SHBG, Prolactin, T3, T4.
A good ratio of testosterone to estrogens is needed for healthy neurotransmitters levels in your brain.
More test will give you higher levels of dopamine, provided the estrogen is right.
I think low testosterone and high estrogen might give you too much serotonin and not enough dopamine.
Also, you need to improve the quality of your sleep, melatonin might help you with that.
Also, there is research chemical PED called MK 677 (or ibutamoren mesylate)
that will make your pituitary produce more growth hormone, which in turn will greatly improve your sleep quality, energy levels, will lower your cortisol levels (the stims will increase your cortisol), will help you eat more and gain weight, and also boost your immune system. It is deemed to be a very safe drug, but ofcourse it's your choice as there haven't been many human trials yet.
Btw are you only taking wellbutrin and Dexedrine now?
 
falsifiedhypothesi said:
If you want these meds to be able to help you in the long term then you have to stop abusing them. Amphetamine seems to work best when I only use it 2-4 times a week.
Click to expand...

Falsified, kindly, stop plagiarizing my thoughts and get out of my head. 60mg-90mg Dextroamphetamine is a hefty dosage. Even under the best of circumstances maintaining efficacy over a period of chronic usage with Amphetamines can be difficult. By "best of circumstances" I mean using the smallest dosage possible, as infrequently as possible, eating and sleeping at optimum efficiency etc. The fact is, taking large doses of Amphetamines like what you're referring to, is a quicker way to burn out. It works cyclically with Amphetamines in that, one night you might not sleep, the next day, use more Amphetamine to wake up, get too stimulated, don't sleep again, use more Amphetamine, repeat.

If you use a smaller dose, you can more easily ensure important variables like nightly, restful sleep, proper nutrition and hydration etc. The dosages you've been prescribed are actually quite high if we're speaking generally, not as in, this will kill you, but that is probably more CNS stimulation than what is truly appropriate for dealing with boredom and lack of motivation in college. I have my own theories regarding using CNS stimulants simply to write papers and succeed in college that I won't delve too deeply into right now, but to be succinct, I have a firmly held personal opinion that relying heavily upon stimulants in what is the first stage of your life as an adult can have consequences down the road. There will be things in life that you will have to do, that will be much, much more important to college and you're not going to be able to say "wait, I need to get some Amphetamines to do a, b or c."
 
You might find that wellbutrin + adderall somewhat cancel each other out. Perhaps ask about changing from the wellbutrin to something else? You really could do with breaks from the stimulants when they're not really needed for specific study/tasks though.

Also bear in mind that as you have ADHD, you're naturally likely to be at your most alert at 12am. And also that you have a natural ability for hyperfocus that non-ADHD lack if you can get stressed/adrenergic enough, and that can happen irrespective of any meds you're on/not on.
 
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