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US Events Actor Jussie Smollett faces new disorderly conduct charges in alleged fake attack

There definitely seems to a be a pattern of random and unprovoked attacks against Trump supporters, but it's not politically correct to point that out.

Can you link to a pattern of cases of unprovoked attacks against Trump supporters? There is certainly a lot of anger towards trump supporters and I've seen plenty of video in protests or rallies of people being shouted at, but I'm not aware of a lot of physical attacks against them.
 
Are Jews White?

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Trump's election has reopened questions that have long seemed settled in America?including the acceptability of open discrimination against minority groups.




tl;dr yes they are

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When I first posted this article, I thought it wouldn't get a single reply. You never know!

I wonder what really happened and why?

Most aren't, by their own admission (speaking of ethnicity, not spirituality). I am, but I'm a convert & there aren't many of us. Keep in mind there are also dark skinned Jews who aren't White, though not many in the US. In the West, many if not most ethnic Askenazi Jews occupy a grey area. They 'pass' as White but still consider themselves Jewish, & usually mark that option on applications etc. But I don't think most Jews in the West think too much about the whole issue. They just do what everyone else does. This has certainly been my observation with my many Jewish friends & partners.
 
I am highly skeptical that there's any epidemic of fake hate crimes. They do happen, it's not unheard of. But I don't think it's super common.

That said, and I suspect this may be one of those rare instances of agreement between us. I'm not wild about the idea of hate crimes in general. I don't think a racist motivation should make much difference in classifying and sentencing criminal acts.

I asked earlier about 'should fake hate crimes be charged equal to real hate crimes' and most responses were that violent crimes are different from fake hate crimes. That wasn't my question, as violence is different in nature than hate crimes. Yes, the two cross paths frequently, as real hate can quickly escalate to violence, but there are many hate crimes or racism situations that are non-violent such as calling people racial slurs, defacing places (temples, homes), or writing things for the public to see and be offended. I would agree hate crimes and racism of this kind don't warrant the harsh standard of violent crimes. But I would argue faking these is on par with committing them and should be punished according to the same standard.

Black Woman Accuses White Cop of Racism, But Body Cam Footage Shows Differently
Body camera footage appears to contradict NAACP president's account of racial profiling by police
Racist graffiti painted on car near K-State was a fraud
Racist graffiti on college campus turns out to be doing of Black ex-student
Fake Hate: Black College Lacrosse Player Arrested for Posting N-Word and Swastika Graffiti Targeting Himself
kent-county-prosecutor-man-did-not-urinate-on-girl-story-was-made-up


Those are all from the past 2y off the top of my head. All were fake. Not part of my point but all done by black Americans. So the first, and most obvious question is why? I don't think there is as much of an agenda as people want - just like the question of what Smollett has to gain from this if he faked it (though, he's riding the media attention quite well, seems he intended to interview right after the event). You can ask if I'm cherry picking links, but to be honest I cannot recall in the last two years any fake crimes perpetrated by whites - unfortunately, there are plenty of real hate crimes by whites, but my point here is the same as this thread - FAKE hate crimes. I really don't think there is an end goal for most of these (consider the old white guy accused of urinating on two black girls aged 5 & 7 - for what gain would they make the accusation? Are they even capable of having an end goal?). I think it speaks more to the culture we've developed in recent years of victim mentality - it gets attention shifted off anything the faker has actually done and gathers public support to condemn some fictional 'other' (often the police, often whites).

There isn't a huge wave of this, it's not an epidemic or an emergency (WALL!), but there is a recurring theme at work here. Frequency is about as often as mass shootings are occurring, at least of the fake hate crimes that get media attention and public support then are quietly dropped as faked. And there really isn't anywhere near this number of other types of fake crimes occurring - it's typically focused on race and hate. Fake rapes are reported and uncovered less frequently, and I can't even think of any other crime that is faked to any noticeable degree.

Yeaaaaaaah, problem is, I suspect if I asked you for stats on hoax hate crimes, if I dig into them I'll find many of them are totally unverified. And I suspect if I go looking on my own, I'll find that there aren't any authoritive sources tracking hoax hate crimes. Probably all that's tracked is how many prosecutions and how many convictions. Which wouldn't be helpful.

Which means I'd just have to go with my instincts. And my instinct for humans is that I doubt that many of them plot fake hate crimes. Cause I suspect most people who'd be politically inclined towards wanting to raise awareness for hate crimes likely believe there are plenty of hate crimes without needing to fake them.

Yeah, I'm not going to point to a database of hate crimes, or more specifically faked ones. At some point early on, I'd question how many submissions are being done just to inflate the numbers or bend the definition in order to be counted. It's like watching a highlight real for an athelete - she looks freaking awesome...because it is all highlights. Or watching a lineup of convicted killers - it starts to make you think everyone is a killer, when in fact you're looking at a filtered, focused group and it can throw askew the context of reality, and how much this is really going on in the world. I'm only going from media headlines and memory, and there is a clear recurring theme with a focused group doing it and in terms of what they are doing. The question remains - WHY? I don't think there is an end goal. I think it is simply a cultural mentality we've encouraged and are unwilling to recognize, much less do anything about it. The media has abandoned their need to report facts and let folks decide, instead they rush to get the headline, even if it is fake.
 
^There's no double standard, you ignore context and nuance to try and "gotcha" people. Another fail.

TheLoveBandit said:
I'm not going to point to a database of hate crimes, or more specifically faked ones

I am

'Here's A List Of Hoax "Hate Crimes" In The Trump Era'

https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/18/hoax-hate-crimes-list/

I thought that everyone already knew about these and that they were happening but apparently not. Taking ignorance into account I can understand why so many people were quick to believe and defend Smollett - they literally think that there's a serious problem with white supremacist, violent, MAGA racists - which is provably false, because if it were true then Smollett (and others) wouldn't need to fake attacks.

Why would anyone fake a hate crime?

Andy Ngo said:
"Because of the mainstreaming of academia's victimhood culture, we are now in a place where we place more value on being a victim than on being heroic, charitable, or even kind."
 
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^ that's one man's opinion - it doesn't mean he's right.

in order to compare the value of two things you have to measure them. how does one go about objectively measuring the value of 'being a victim'? how does one go about objectively measuring the value of 'being heroic'?

alasdair
 
The fact that you don't agree with this profound and accurate assessment means that you are either completely out of touch, or you have bought into this culture of victimhood and have incorporated it as part of your ideology (my assumption). Why don't you give me your opinion as to why he would fake that hate crime?

Jack Posobiec said:
Notice that no one in media is busy apologizing for Smollett, and still haven't apologized for Covington. They're just moving on to the next hoax

Lisa Boothe said:
The Covington Kids and Jussie Smollett stories are the same. The media chose to believe the narrative that was most damaging to Trump supporters, even in the absence of facts or logic. This is why there is animus towards the media and why #fakenews resonates.

WashingtonPost said:
So glad to have been able to publish this piece from Nana Efua Mumford on the Jussie Smollett case, and what it feels like to wish a very bad thing might be true because the lie would be so much worse:
 
yep. those are the only two possibilities :\

i have no more idea than you do why he faked the crime. if we're assuming, i think it speaks to psychological problems.

i answered your question, maybe you'll now answer mine...

how does one go about objectively measuring the value of 'being a victim'? how does one go about objectively measuring the value of 'being heroic'?

alasdair
 
It's not an objective measurement obviously, his comment was a reflection on the current political climate and victimhood mentality that many people (mostly on the Left) have chosen to settle into because it serves them (or their emotions). If you honestly don't understand this, then it's worth looking into and understanding. Sometimes we are blissfully unaware of our own actions and who or what is directing or influencing them.

And please don't make assumptions - I have much more of an idea as to why he faked the crime than you do,which is also related to how I could tell he was lying very early on after I'd heard the details of the alleged assault. I just wanted to get your opinion as to why you think he did it, since you disagreed with Ngo's percipient assessment.
 
Note: I edited a post of mine that was a response to an offhand comment by another poster.

https://www.bluelight.org/vb/thread...ter-attack?p=14486636&viewfull=1#post14486636

Here, I would like to reference a similarly nuanced collection of readers' replies to the article I excerpted:

Jews and the Social Construction of Race

I believe this topic is relevant considering the following:

According to the FBI?s hate-crime statistics, a majority of religiously motivated hate-crime offenses are committed against Jews each year. This has been the case every year since the FBI first began reporting hate-crime statistics in 1995, when more than 80 percent of religiously motivated crimes were against Jews. These days, that percentage is closer to 50 percent?a sign not that Jews are safer, but that other groups have been increasingly targeted.

Source: Are Jews White

And I think the fact real hate crimes are being committed is important, as is false reporting and the subsequent waste of law enforcement's time and taxpayer's money. But the two are distinct things and both can have significance of different natures.
 
Smollett threat letter called "enormous mistake"; Purported attack location identified; Federal charges "certain"
http://www.cwbchicago.com/2019/02/smollett-threat-letter-called-enormous.html

Authorities have become very good at tracking down who mails a letter.
There was a threat letter sent to Smollett before the attack, it contained crushed Tylenol to mimic white powder.

A law firm partner who asked not to be identified by name spoke with us about the federal problems ahead for whoever mailed the letter: "If they have Smollett on the letter, he'll be facing 'terroristic hoax' charges, a felony. There may be federal obstruction charges as well."

All in all, the federal legal options are numerous: "If they want to bury him, they can."

Should they "bury" him?
I feel he should do some jail time. He's a (relatively) high-profile dude that could have incited a race war.
What he did was also a hate crime himself because he targeted white people - would anyone disagree with that?
An example needs to be made imo.
How many murders, robberies, sexual assaults won't be solved due to his incendiary, race-baiting antics?

Chances of jail time?
 
You believed his story...

chance of jailtime?

fun fact he was one of The Mighty Ducks

thanks. if you can't measure them you can't say that one has more value than the other.

Also this is complete nonsense. What do you have a value-meter in your pocket or something?
How do you measure that you value logic over emotions? Or is it the other way around?
 
If he's guilty then yes, I think he deserves some jail time. And yes, for targeting white people, that was racist.

There have been no charges brought up against anyone yet, so at this point all of the opinions about who is guilty are still just opinions, though they are certainly being presented as fact. I agree that it does seem that he did it based on what I've seen so far, but I'm still reserving judgment until charges are brought up on someone.
 
You believed his story...
now who's assuming? you shouldn't do that.

chance of jailtime?
no idea but if he's found guilty of crimes arising from a faked attack, he should be punished appropriately.

How do you measure that you value logic over emotions? Or is it the other way around?
you can't do it objectively is my point. saying that we value being a victim more than we value heroes is a subjective opinion (and thus open to debate), not a statement of fact. that's all.

alasdair
 
you can't do it objectively is my point. saying that we value being a victim more than we value heroes is a subjective opinion (and thus open to debate), not a statement of fact. that's all.

I never said it was a statement of fact. The question was why would someone fake a hate crime? Nobody in this thread has given anything close to a detailed explanation so that was obviously the opinion of one person. I think because it was very accurate that annoyed you so you felt the need to comment on it. But instead of actually commenting on the content which could've led to a discussion on the rampant state of adopted victimhood that we're seeing everywhere in our culture, you tried to argue that we can't objectively measure values. Wow thanks for that.
 
Feds investigating whether Jussie Smollett played a role in sending threatening letter sent to 'Empire' studios addressed to him

Good Morning America

The FBI and the US Postal Inspection Service are currently investigating whether Jussie Smollett played a role in sending a threatening letter addressed to him at "Empire?s" Chicago studio prior to the alleged attack, two federal officials confirm to ABC News.

The accusation, made by the two brothers who were persons of interest, has not been confirmed.

The letter, which was sent Jan. 22, is currently in the FBI crime lab for analysis, one of the sources said.

The latest in this ever-changing story comes hours after the two brothers claimed they helped Smollett concoct the alleged assault after he became upset that a letter threatening him, sent to the "Empire" show's studio, did not get enough attention, sources told ABC News on Monday.

Olabinjo and Abimbola Osundairo have also told investigators that Smollett paid them to help him orchestrate and stage the Jan. 29 attack that he said occurred near his Chicago apartment, sources said.

Detectives are actively investigating the account of Olabinjo and Abimbola Osundairo, but thus far police have not independently verified the allegations, a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation told ABC News.

The Osundairo brothers agreed to cooperate with authorities after detectives confronted them with evidence that they bought the rope -- allegedly used in an attack that Smollett described to police as laced with racial and homophobic slurs -- at a Chicago hardware store, sources said.

No one has been charged in connection with the case.

A spokesperson for Smollett said Monday the actor's attorneys are keeping an active dialogue going with Chicago police on behalf of the actor.

Smollett told police that on Jan. 29, he was walking on a street near his apartment when he was attacked by two men. The attackers allegedly shouted racist and homophobic slurs before hitting him, pouring ?an unknown chemical substance? on him ? possibly bleach ? and wrapping a rope around his neck, he told detectives.

?As a victim of a hate crime who has cooperated with the police investigation, Jussie Smollett is angered and devastated by recent reports that the perpetrators are individuals he is familiar with," Smollett attorneys Todd Pugh and Victor Henderson said in a separate statement Saturday. "He has now been further victimized by claims attributed to these alleged perpetrators that Jussie played a role in his own attack. Nothing is further from the truth and anyone claiming otherwise is lying."

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/feds-inve...-sending-195508068--abc-news-celebrities.html
 
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