Acid in America 2K6

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Ever since LSD became illegal in 1966 underground chemists have been battling with troublesome impurities because of the poor availability of precursors and proper equipment. Depending on the precursors used and the care/time taken during the synthesis a wealth of impurities can occur and should be removed. Failure to remove these results in an impure product and most underground labs do not have the equipment/knowledge to further purify (wash) the crystal. For the most part an underground lab will detect the presence of LSD but not the impurities. (thin-layer chromatography). Some will take the extra time and effort to make a quality product, not for the money, but because they possess a belief that LSD is a gift to be held sacred and shared.

Additionally, Owsley, Roseman, and others have documented occasions where their LSD synthesis resulted in an impure product. Their descriptions use words detailing the crystal color and composition. Shulgin has also described pure LSD by the crystal color and composition.

That said, let’s review some FACTS:

- LSD impurities are real and happen often.

- Some of the greatest LSD chemists acknowledge impurities and refer to the crystal color and composition when describing them.


So, why is it such a stretch to believe someone years ago used slang terms; needlepoint, fluff, amber, etc. to describe LSD crystal color and composition?

You can believe whatever you want but I have seen different types of crystal and would bet if you had ever been exposed to it your viewpoint would be totally different.
 
Because a) the people eating/selling the stuff have no clue, as they didn't see the crystals. b) the impurities in the synthesis don't have any effect on the trip.

So it's a meaningless term, used to hype acid and also to make themselves feel elite because they 'know' about this ridiculous stuff. It's folklore man, the acid scene is full of baseless folklore and mythology.

Fluff and needlepoint are as useful terms to discuss as 'double stacked' ecstasy or 'heroin-based' pills.
 
It's marketing 101, guys.

I'm not saying that different lab procedures/reagents/etc won't change the characteristics of the end result, though... just that the person selling you your acid is not the chemist, so he doesn't have a CLUE what the crystal looked like.

Double-dipped, fluff, needlepoint... they are all just marketing terms that translate to "Buy my LSD goddammit."
 
Coolio said:
anyone go to any festivals in starks, ME lately? last october I went and there was an acid tent with pretty good liquid. when administered to me though, the vendor accidentally squeezed a squirt of hits on my tongue instead of the single drop i had purchased, then said 'WHOOPS!! haha good luck with that.'
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Wow, how was that? I'd be pissed if they did that and you didn't want to trip HARD. 8( 8( 8( 8( 8( 8o 8o 8o 8o
 
Well I had one of the worst trips of my life, but I was happy to have received much more than I paid for. I just didn't have enough money to buy 10 hits. I would have bought it all to begin with and ate it then if I had the money.
 
ive come to find alot of "cid" going around these days is DOI and or DOC. Due to its easy avaibility from online research chem suppliers. Didnt have the time to beat my brain to death reading all 24 pages of this thread, so i dont know if anyone has aknowledged this yet. Anywho white fluff and the such are just buzzwords lump em in the gutter of your brain with terms such as triple stacked mitsubishi's and the such.
 
I didn't read that thread so I don't know why it didn't go anywhere. But if it went nowhere because its a baseless claim with no evidence, then the point stands.

Could you point me to thread you refer to?
 
Buzzwords is correct.

The Dea reports that the average purity of crystal LSD that they seize is 62% purity. Not very impressive when compared to the claimed purity level associated with the words "needlepoint", "white fluff", "amber", "lavender". There are degrees of color in crystal that can be attributed to impurities and degradation, however the buzzwords attributed to them mean absolutely nothing unless accompanied by scientific analysis and quantification.

Even drugless blotter paper is hawked and overvalued by means of hyping up the "quality" of one over another. How else does one sell a perforated piece of paper for $70 that has never circulated. Marketing...Confidence...Fear..It works...............

For an interesting article on LSD quality over the years, as well as recent production, see the Mark McCloud interview in the Winter 2003 Ethnogean Review.
 
Originally Posted cornollio

the impurities in the synthesis don't have any effect on the trip.
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I’m not so sure that is correct. There is an interesting list of people who disagree with you. Dr. Timothy Leary, Stark (Brotherhood of Eternal Love), Tim Scully, Owsley Stanley, Michael Hollinshead, and Ken Kesey all commented in the 60’s and 70’s that underground LSD was noticeably different that the Sandoz LSD. They felt it was the impurities that resulted in the different experience.

Also, one need only go as far as Erowid to find a 2003 article (LSD Analysis) that states: “as far as we know no research has been done to determine whether isomers of LSD can potentially reduce or alter the receptor binding or otherwise modify the pharmacodynamics of d-LSD” and “We are left with the knowledge that, at this time, there is not enough information to resolve the "good acid / bad acid" debate”


Originally Posted lsdblotterart

The Dea reports that the average purity of crystal LSD that they seize is 62% purity.
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Actually the DEA report says, “that crystal LSD they have seized averages about 62% d-LSD (with the rest made up of other isomers or impurities) but that some is 95-100% pure.”

Originally Posted lsdblotterart

Buzzwords is correct.
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I’m not disagreeing that people don’t use these terms to make their product appear better than others, but crystal has been sold this way for years, plain and simple.
 
TAPPER said:
Actually the DEA report says, “that crystal LSD they have seized averages about 62% d-LSD (with the rest made up of other isomers or impurities) but that some is 95-100% pure.”
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From the DEA report:
" LSD crystal produced clandestinely can be as much as 95- to 100-percent pure. At this purity—and assuming optimum conditions during dilution and application to paper—1 gram of crystal could produce 20,000 dosage units of LSD. However, analysis of LSD crystal seized in California over the past 3 years revealed an average purity of only 62 percent. Moreover, LSD degrades quickly when exposed to heat, light, and air and is most susceptible to degradation during the application process and once it is in paper form. As a result, under less than optimal, real-life conditions, actual yields are significantly below the theoretically possible yield: 1 gram of LSD crystal genarally yields 10,000 dosage units of LSD, or approximately 10 million dosage units per kilogram."

source: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/dea/product/lsd/lsd-5.htm


People may have used those buzzwords to sell there wares, but the buzzwords have no objective meaning, unless each vial of crystal is accompanied with a scientific analysis that tells a person the exact percentage of purity. The buzzwords have no real objective value. Their value lies in how well they are hyped on down the line. The consistency between batches, even with the same chemist and equipment, can vary greatly depending on conditions, and quality of precurser materials.
 
Even if a chemist cooked up and analyzed a batch and it was decided between him and his customers that it was 'needlepoint', by the time it's been dissolved in liquid, passed through a couple hands, laid on blotter or geltabs, passed around and gone to a festival... each and every hit eaten by a tripper is going to have followed a different path and stored/handled in different conditions, therefore the same original batch is going to lead to millions of different purity levels in the hits eventually eaten. So in the end every chemist's batch is the same as every other chemist's. .
 
My mistake lsdblotterart, I though you were quoting a different DEA report from Erowid. They both start off discussing a 62% purity of seized crystal.
(http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article1.shtml)

Originally Posted by lsdblotterart

The buzzwords have no real objective value.
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I guess we disagree. The “buzzwords” are meant to differentiate between the purity of crystal ones buying. They aren’t gospel, but differentiate between some obvious differences in what is available. Crystal from one source could be black/nasty and from another white/ beautiful. It’s not all the same, one costs much more than the other and there is an obvious difference in the overall experience. Now I’m not saying ALL crystal sold as needlepoint would test in the high 90%, but in the context of the underground market these “buzzwords” do have a significant meaning.

I will agree that after the crystal has been prepared for distribution these terms are virtually worthless (unless you know and trust who did the work) but still used extensively in an attempt to boost sales.


Originally Posted by coolio
So in the end every chemist's batch is the same as every other chemist's. .
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Not from where I’m sitting. If you start off with crap no matter how you lay it, store it, and distribute it it’s always going to be crap or worse. If you start off with an excellent product, depending on how it’s laid, stored, and distributed can make a world of difference. In the end, it’s not all the same.



Well guys, I’m done defending the existence of different types of LSD crystal. I have been around the block a few times and have a unique set of life experiences. You can choose to believe an old head or not, it doesn’t really matter in the end. What is important is that someone who believes laid commercial paper from fluff at 100 mics/hit. Would it test out to be exactly 95+% pure or every hit @ 100 mics, probably not. But it’s definitely much better quality than what has been around in some time.
 
elemenohpee said:
I didn't read that thread so I don't know why it didn't go anywhere. But if it went nowhere because its a baseless claim with no evidence, then the point stands.

Could you point me to thread you refer to?
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Yeah sorry it's right here. Modern-day LSD vs. Sandoz LSD. I would advise for those of us interested in discussing it, to go back to that thread, because pretty soon tranceaddikt is gonna step in and say that people should get back on topic of this thread.

So yeah, check out that thread and comment there from now on, and let this thread go back to its scheduled programming.
 
i didnt mean to clog the thread i just thought that it was kind of like on pill reports when someone would say " THESE ARE THE BOMBEST ROLLS YOUVE EVER SEEN. BUY BUY BUY" "DOUBLE STACKS" instead of talking about how they felt. instead of trying to Guess the crystal, an accurate report on how they felt, how long they lasted, etc would be apprieciated.
 
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