Bupe About to go through sub WD... What should I do?

[roxi2873]

I had to stop going to my sub clinic a few months ago because it was so expensive, I thought I had saved up enough extra 8mg strips to taper off myself, but apparently not. I tried going totally off subs a week or so ago and after 7 or 8 days the God awful WD hit. I thought I was good after day 4 or 5. But apparently it took that long before it had left my system enough to get sick. This was also a personal period of crisis in my life and I relapsed on basically every drug imaginable but nothing really got me high, so I went back to the few subs I had left. Last night I took my last half strip of suboxone. I have no money, no way to get more and I know soon I will be in agony. I don't know what to do. I would like to go detox somewhere but I don't think that's possible. I'm running out of time and options. Anyone have any idea?

 

[skodeo]

With that last half strip I would have divided it up into like 4 small pieces and took it as needed. Go the kratom route though like we discussed and I'm going to be starting my tianeptine regimine tomorrow and if I find it useful for me then I'll recommend it for you as well. I wish you luck...WDs are tough, but we have each other!

 

[skodeo]

I went through Sub WDs before cold turkey...I ended up in treatment for four months for methadone use and they put me on Subs for a couple months and eventually tapered me down over a couple weeks and pulled me off. I was on like 2mg in the end and ended up in WD for a good month or so. It was pretty minor compared to other opiate WDs I've been through, but it was uncomfortable with NOTHING to ease the pain expect time. I feel for you...

 

[skodeo]

You COULD try small doses of Loperamide...like A LOT less than I was taking. It honestly will help, just don't megadose and become dependant. Maybe try taking 30 Lopes to start and see how well it eases your symptoms...but only do that for a week or so.

 

[roxi2873]

I'm afraid if I try that I'll never shit again. When I first started subs I didn't shit for 2 weeks and had to go to the hospital. I ended up having to drink that gallon of nasty stuff before anything worked lol.

 

[roxi2873]

I was down to taking a half sub every 2 or 3 days...I wish I would have conserved more.

 

[cjh1221]

The extreme diarrhea from WD will counteract the Loperimide slowing things down, I wouldn't worry too much about that. A moderate dose of about 20 mg. is a decent start, just taper it off after the really crummy acute parts pass. Also, search the Thomas Recipe and get as many supplies off the list as you can. That 1/2 strip could have been split up and used over a period of days to do a rapid taper, and it would have likely eased the WD a bit but what's done is done.

We will be here to support you so be sure to check in with updates and even just to talk or get some support. It's not only good for you but it will take your mind off things for a little while. WD doesn't last forever, it feels like it sometimes, but there is a light at the end if the tunnel.

Namaste

 

[Natig Rafiev]

I am,currently going through the same thing. My gf who provided me with subutex (which i shot) for 5 years went to jail for smuggling them into county prison. Now I'm screwed. I stupidly figured since the withdrawal from,subutex takes SOOOO long I'd take alot of benzo's. This did help somewhat. Then strangely after 12 days it was HORRIBLE! liquid poop drippin, unbearable anxiety, everything...I thought I was over!! So I even more stupidly decided, as an ex-heroin addict forgetting how intense the pain was, to start taking relatively moderate doses of oxycodone as I do have chronic pain from several spinal fusions, surgeries, etc (all results of IV drug abscesses)...and heroin 3-4 times. Now, after trying to stop, I can't bear the intensity of the withdrawal. So I'm now back to where I was 5 years ago.
Please don't make this mistake.
Honestly, benzodiazepines helped me...until I ran out. Because the anxiety and liquid diarrhea are the worst aspects of the wd'...a,d back,pain for me...but that is mostly unrelated in my case. My only advice is DO NOT take the benzodiazepines ANY longer than you absolutely must. THAT withdrawal you,will want a,d pray for death...that's if the seizures don't kill you first. I'm speaking from experience on,all these issues.
As far as cost..i don't see the problem. Almost all docs prescribe 90 pills a month. I took 1 a day tops. I,could easily vo,a day without ot take a half pill if i chose. That leaves minimum 60 to sell. I live in Philly where I sell them for $10-30 a pill, depending on if sellin in the city or the suburbs. That more than covers cost with or without insurance.
My advice is a diaper and benzodiazepines if you feel you truly must. Which i did feel was. It takes FOREVER...but it's really not that intense; relatively or otherwise. Whatever you do don't go back to opiates. The ming has an amazing way of forgetting that brand of pain. Short or not.

 

[Eveleivibe]

You see the thing that people forget and don't know about buprenorphine is its half life. It is at least 36 hours (3 days) before the buprenorphine leaves the system. So you're not gna feel WDs until n if you do it's more than like to psychological, the playing tricks.

From past evidence, and of what I've read of others' experience, I don't think it's a good idea to Cold Turkey off buprenorphine. Reason being is the WDs may induce cravings of the DoC. Over a month ago I tried stopping buprenorphine from 2 mg, lasted six days but during that time I ended up taking some opiates after craving them and talking myself into taking them.

Speaking generally, I feel that impulsively deciding to jump off is still part of addict behaviour since part of our addicting is wanting something instantly; wanting to feel good now; wanting to stop the pain now, and so forth. I suppose it comes down to why you went on the buprenorphine to begin with.

Of course I'm speaking in general terms here. Roxi I'm sorry to hear that you no longer have the money for subs - is there not any way you can get some help with paying for them? Sorry I'm in Wales and am only aware of how it works here. What is your long term place for when your off buprenorphine and over the physical and psychological symptoms? If your struggling to stay away from opiates now I'm concerned you're gna struggle and you'll lose a lot more money if you go back into full addiction. Are you not able to go onto methadone or is that just as expensive?

Sorry, wish I could help more x

 

[cjh1221]

You see the thing that people forget and don't know about buprenorphine is its half life. It is at least 36 hours (3 days) before the buprenorphine leaves the system. x

36hrs. = 1 1/2 days .... There is also a problem with "stacking"

For example, if you were to take 12mg./day for 7 days it would look something like this:

Monday you take 12 mg. for this example the 12 mg. was taken all at once and at 8AM each day

Tuesday (24 hrs. Later) you have eliminated 2/3 of it (8mg) but you dose another 12 mg meaning your plasma concentration is now 16 mg.

Wednesday you take another 12 mg. but only have eliminated 2/3 of Tuesday's 16 mg. leaving you at 17.33mg.

I intended to write out the whole 7 days but got lazy....you get the idea.
It takes a lot longer to feel Withdrawl than you would expect because you have a higher plasma concentration than you think. Although the actual absorption is much lower than the 8 mg. sublingual, that's a story for another day. The figures above would only be true if bioavailability was 100% but for this example it's good enough to assume it is.

 

[Eveleivibe]

I didn't know that. Thanks x

Evey

 

[cjh1221]

I have been a long-time fan of yours Evelevi....we often are posting on the same threads and I have read mad amounts of your posts....respect

NAMASTE

 

[belfort]

I went through Sub WDs before cold turkey...I ended up in treatment for four months for methadone use and they put me on Subs for a couple months and eventually tapered me down over a couple weeks and pulled me off. I was on like 2mg in the end and ended up in WD for a good month or so. It was pretty minor compared to other opiate WDs I've been through, but it was uncomfortable with NOTHING to ease the pain expect time. I feel for you...

during that month how bad was the tirdness and anhedonia?those are the killers for me when i quit opiates..just week after week of no energy, low mood, nothing is enjoyable...ughh

 

[Eveleivibe]

during that month how bad was the tirdness and anhedonia?those are the killers for me when i quit opiates..just week after week of no energy, low mood, nothing is enjoyable...ughh

Thing is everyone is different so the severity of fatigue for one person doesn't mean it will be that way for you. When I dropped recently I was really fatigued whereas a person I'd known from recovery had tapered and said she hardly felt tiredness at all.

Evey

 

[vortech]

My sub w/d was atypical from what I have read. I jumped off at somewhere less than 1mg, and the w/d started within 2 hours of when my body expected to get its daily dose, and it hit hard and fast, not unlike a moderate heroin w/d. I think my body might metabolize it faster than most people because I always started to feel w/d around the time of my dose in the morning, especially noticeable if I only dosed 1x per day; splitting the dose into 2 halves helped.

Anyway, back to the w/d. After the first week it became much more bearable, but symptoms such as my body having a hard time regulating temperature (sweating followed by cold), and waves of goosebumps that decreased in occurence over the course of 2 months. I took about 24mg of loperamide/day. I am prescribed 450mg lyrica/day which I'm sure greatly helped the restless leg syndrome component, though it was still everpresent, but doing leg stretches and walks/bike helped a ton to manage it. In those first few weeks I had a small period of time in which I was helped by a dissociative or benzo, both good allies for w/d.

I however ended up relapsing on heroin for 3 days about 3 and a half weeks into sub w/d, and as a result checked myself in to a short stay detox/rehab facility and they put me on some pharmaceuticals, welbutrin being one (it helped the lingering fatigue from PAWS but made my anxiety much worse so ended up drinking alcohol increasingly to try to turn the volume down so I ultimately stopped it after a month). After seeing another dr. I was started on an SSRI and buspar because even after 2 or 3 months I was feeling depression anxiety etc. unless I was self medicating with dissociatives etc. So now after a month of that, and 4 months since stopping suboxone I am starting to feel more like a normal person, i.e. not bad. I was on sub for 18 months.

Prepare for a long battle, but persistence will win out.

 

[roxi2873]

I think I'm in full blown sub WD now. The stiffness, restlessness and general feeling of losing my mind is the worst part. I'm just trying to tough it out. I'm basically at that point where I've burned every bridge. No one is going to help me. On the 2 occasions I've scored a 20 bag of dope to try to cope with this I railed it all and felt decent for a few hours, but it's really just a temporary band aid. Trying to find some benzos so I can just sleep through it. No luck thus far. But, I've made my bed...and now I'm lying in it. Only thing I'm doing now is lots of benedryl, ibuprofen and Tylenol. I feel miserable, but I did this to myself. It's my own fucking fault. I shouldn't have traded the last 6 or 7 subs I had to go on a huge crack, oxy, heroin binge that was less than fulfilling. I barely even got high at all. Would just be happy with some weed right now.

 

[roxi2873]

The binge was because my girl and I broke up. I honestly think we broke up because I wanted to relapse. After 6 months clean on subs, any little thing was pissing me off. I really wish I could find a reason to do it for myself. I can do it for her. Now I would give anything to go back to that day I walked out on her...again, went and sold my soul to try and get high..again. Yes, this has happened before. But I'm sure this is the last time. She should be with someone who isn't a fucking drug addict, barely keeping it together most days. As much as I love her, the best thing I can do for her is never fucking talk to her again.

 

[cj]

Hang in there man. It will end eventually.

 

[cjh1221]

No Benadryl. It has been proven to make restlessness worse. Lope, lope, lope!

 

[roxi2873]

I can't see taking more than 2 or 3 lopermide for the shits. It's a dangerous game for me, I could end up not being able to for weeks.