Stimulants About Amphetamine cross-tolerance, perma-tolerance and MDMA

[Rukan]

I've been wondering these past few days reading about amphetamines and other stimulants about cross-tolerance.

A forum thread was discussing having MDMA just tire them out instead of giving them that stimulant effect, and some other users corroborated that experience. I mean, it would make sense? Amphetamine tends to be empathogenic somewhat and MDMA works on serotonin and dopamine as well, if i'm not mistaken.

Does MDMA lose potency/magic/stimulation for amphetamine users? I'm quite a fan of amphetamine and while i try to keep it at a minimum and not binge or do it more than one-two days in a row, i do sometimes really like to just do speed lines an entire afternoon.

This also makes me wonder if the tolerance stages of amphetamine, once reached, also apply to the effects of MDMA. I really love MDMA and i want to experience it as best as i can every time, and i wait between uses, use supplements, practice all the harm reduction that is required for it, and still not do it often.
But, i do like speed a lot. I don't want to get into the habit but i want to be able to use it on a semi-frequent occasion (think once every two weeks ideally, tolerance breaks or periods where i have planned multiple day but light dose use notwithstanding) and it does tickle some of the same nerves that MD does.

How bad is amph (racemic, not adderall) cross-tolerance for MDMA? Does it actually happen? It wouldn't be a stretch that it would. Anyone got experience with that?

I'm talking amphetamine specifically, but i guess this question could also be extended to perhaps methamphetamine/cathinones/other stims? Is there any literature on this? Kinda hard to imagine there would but..

And while i'm at it, i did read the thread about, again, the stages of amphetamine tolerance. What i do wonder though, is it as permanent as that thread wants you to believe? I really like the euphoric aspect of amphetamine and enjoy it immensely but if at all possible i would love NOT to lose that, since that also sounds like the same mechanism behind mdma loss of magic or just relaxing the user instead of giving him energy. As much as i love speed, the mdma magic is just too important for me in my drug usage to lose it outright or have it diminish.

I still haven't gone past euphoria stage i think, i am on a hell of a lot of amphetamine sulfate today and i bothered all my friends for hours just talking to them and vibing/venting/telling them how much i like them. It did diminish a bit (almost not noticeably so, but i did notice) from last time i did a similar dose but it's still all there mostly. I had low doses of speed done sporadically between those two larger 'binge' dosages (around 2-3 weeks perhaps, even more? both 'binges' lasted only a day) didn't seem to affect it much, but i worry that once i get past this i can't go back to this feeling, and if that also translates to long term/permanent tolerance to some of the mdma effects, that would be unacceptable to me.
Not like i use mdma a lot, we're talking, in theory and in planning, once/twice/thrice a year at most and this year i've only done it once which was my first time (should have done it again last week but the fucking guards at the club found my shit) but speed is starting to get a presence in my drug use and before i keep using it even in a moderate/safer context, i want to know what's up with that and if i should be even more moderate in its use than originally planned to avoid all this.

Kinda wish speed didnt last as long and didn't have all that oxidative stress issues, it really is quite a delicious drug and isn't as bad as other stims. I'd hate having to limit it even more, but if that's how it is............

(i hope this is the right place to post this also, kinda unsure if it better belonged in basic drug discussion but this seems a bit too specific?)

 

[KurtAurelius]

Pure speculation, but I do belive there will be some degree of overlap.

Everyone knows the difference bias between the two, and even though both have “amphetamine” in the chemical name, its still different on numerous levels both structurally and pharmacologically.

(To my knowledge) both are releasing agents, then they will be a lapse with regards to dopamine and norepinephrine.

My speculation being that frequent use of say amphetamine will perhaps slightly change how MDMA will feel, even if MDMA is much more preferable for Serotonin and Amphetamine basically being inert for Sertonin except at very high and likely dangerous doses (I’m guessing?)

So a bit of burning the candle at both ends in my theory UNLESS significant abstinence of one before the other.

How minor or major this is if true IDK. Depends how much Dopamine and Norepinephrine MDMA releases.

Alongside how often one uses, how well they look after themselves, how much they sleep, using antioxidants, or NMDAs major or minor (magnesium, agamatine, dxm, ketamine)

If you use MDMA in the gold standard amounts (1.5mg per kilo I think) use MDMA safely with all its other bits, look after yourself, and use Amphetamine reasonably and say have 3 days off minimum before MDMA, I wouldn’t see much diminished.

Probably unrelated and not what was asked, but I’ve seen before both together are wildly neurotoxic but 1. My memory with no source lol and 2. Could be these rat studies where they mega inject them with stupid high doses on repeat.

Last tangent, I fondly remeber my dangerous use of MDMA as a teenager when we would take 200-300mg in a night and redose and only wait a week. It’s on another level and me saying this is stupid already as I can’t say - but this is dangerous and stupid and talk about how good it was.

I’m lucky I am mostly okay after that. But it’s a completly different drug with that use, and concurrent frequent speed use may likely diminish dangerous MDMA doses as they were way rushier and euphoric, lapsing the entactogenic euphoria to more like the pure hedonistic euphoria say abusive levels of Dexamp/DexMeth + the Weirdness MDMA has( gurning, eye wiggles, psuedo psychdelic effects) at the stupid doses

 

[meowly42]

Get all the speed all the way outta your system for a good 2 weeks before you even waste the MDMA by consuming it!!!!!! Good lord. You will not be able to roll if you are tweaking. 5 full days of sleeping and then another week or don’t even bother consuming your ecxtsy. Your body just metabolizes the chem you want before you get to experience it.